Vicky Arnall Posted 23 February Share Posted 23 February Good evening and I hope that you are all well? I'm attempting to trace my grandad's war record started from 1908 when he was a boy soldier in India serving with the Northumberland Fusiliers. I've been helped with his 1913-1925 years of service including the Labour Corps and now realise he may possibly have another service record and number from the 1908 episode. This is mind blowing and I really don't know where to start with this? Any suggestions? Thank you. Vicky Arnall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 23 February Admin Share Posted 23 February Welcome to the forum. A name would really help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rksimpson Posted 23 February Share Posted 23 February ...and any other details you have on him also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 23 February Share Posted 23 February Hi Vicky, Welcome to the forum. If he served from 1908 to 1925 there's a good chance that his service files were merged and albeit weeded, retained in the custody of the MoD, which has for the last year or so been engaged in the process of transferring them to the National Archives. A couple of years back the MoD published a list of names of soldiers for men with files that were born before 1901. In addition to his name, it would be useful to know his DoB. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky Arnall Posted 24 February Author Share Posted 24 February 18 hours ago, Michelle Young said: Welcome to the forum. A name would really help! Yes, 17 hours ago, clk said: Hi Vicky, Welcome to the forum. If he served from 1908 to 1925 there's a good chance that his service files were merged and albeit weeded, retained in the custody of the MoD, which has for the last year or so been engaged in the process of transferring them to the National Archives. A couple of years back the MoD published a list of names of soldiers for men with files that were born before 1901. In addition to his name, it would be useful to know his DoB. Regards Chris Thank you. His name was William John McCabe born I believe April 1895/1896 in Glasgow. Regards. Vicky Arnall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky Arnall Posted 24 February Author Share Posted 24 February 18 hours ago, Michelle Young said: Welcome to the forum. A name would really help! Sorry! William John McCabe born in Glasgow April 1895/6. Thanks. Vicky Arnall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 4 April Share Posted 4 April (edited) 2 hours ago, Vicky Arnall said: My grandad was purported to have served in India in 1908 as boy soldier with I believe the Northumberland Fusiliers. If he signed up as a boy soldier, aged 14-16 (and each Regiment had only a small number as musicians and apprentice tailors and shoemakers), they would normally sign up for 12 years in the "colours", That would be serving full time, in uniform, in barracks, subject to military discipline 24/7 for the whole period. So it's difficult to come up with a scenario if he was a boy soldier in 1908 in which he wouldn't turn up on one of the 1911 Censuses still serving, unless he'd been honourably or dishonourably discharged. The 1911 Census of England & Wales included overseas garrisons around the Empire and troopships at sea. If he was discharged prior to August 1914 there is a strong chance his records were in the separate WO97 series, which can be viewed on FindMyPast and Genes Reunited. Those records weren't in the London Warehouse that was destroyed by German bombs in WW2. Do you want to give us a name, date\year of birth and place of birth as there may be more information that can be pulled together. Cheers, Peter Edited 4 April by PRC Typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 5 April Share Posted 5 April 1 hour ago, Vicky Arnall said: My grandad was born in Greyfriars Glasgow - April 1895 Eilliam John Mccabe Assuming that is William John McCabe there is nothing obvious for that name, or William or John McCabe on the 1911 Census of England & Wales. Of course he could have served under another name. And of course errors happened at the time the census returns were being completed as well as when the information has subsequently been transcribed on the genalogy websites. Nothing obvious in the pre Great War discharge series of records - a possible under John was born Belfast and served with the Scottish Rifles and I think can be discounted. ScotlandPeople has two births registered in 1895 for a William John McCabe, both in the Blackfriars Civil Registration District in inner city Glasgow, and neither has a mothers' maiden name. More details are available via purchase. Scotlands People isn't readily identifying a likely candidate on the 1901 and 1911 Censuses of Scotland. As a boy soldier you would most likely be looking at a 1909 enlistment at the earliest. Many of the boy soldiers were either "sons of the regiment" - i.e. the father served with the regiment and either died while serving or was discharged on health grounds - or came from workhouse and industrial schools, (the equivalent of Borstals \ Young Offenders institutes). He would be unlikely to be sent overseas immediately. That date would have meant he should still have been serving when Britain joined the Great War in August 1914 and if fit enough he would have been old enough to be sent to a Theatre of War with his Battalion. However no likely candidates in the Medal Index Card records for a William J. McCabe that landed in a Theatre of War in 1914. Did William marry at all during the period of the Great War? His occupation on the marriage certificate would at least tell you if he was serving then. If he was serving then it may just say "a soldier" but often it may contain more details sush as rank and unit and where he was stationed, ("address prior to marriage"). Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky Arnall Posted 5 April Author Share Posted 5 April Hello Peter. Thanks again. He's on the 1911 census in Scotland as a 16 year old miner under his maternal grandmothers household McShane. I know he wasin France in about November 1914 as I have something that says 'Theatre of War'. He's a bit of a mystery really in some ways. I know about his parents etc, but it's his War records that I'm most interested in. Regards. Vicky Arnall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 5 April Share Posted 5 April 4 hours ago, Vicky Arnall said: I know he wasin France in about November 1914 as I have something that says 'Theatre of War'. It may be possible to work back from that. What information do you have for his Great War service? Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky Arnall Posted 6 April Author Share Posted 6 April Hello Peter, I've just downloaded his record from the Nation Archives, but I'm not sure how to interpret it. There are 6 different documents. Any tips please? Thank you. Vicky Arnall WO-372-12-183487 (1).pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 6 April Admin Share Posted 6 April The National Archives place 6 scans of 6 different medal index cards on a sheet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 6 April Admin Share Posted 6 April Is #3490 the correct man? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 6 April Admin Share Posted 6 April Vicky, I see that you’ve already asked about this previously. Without definite facts ie what regiment, rather than belief he was in the NF, it’s not really going anywhere. It’s also not helpful to make multiple requests as it causes confusion and repetition of members research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 6 April Share Posted 6 April 17 minutes ago, Michelle Young said: Is #3490 the correct man? @Vicky Arnall According to Paul Nixons' Army Service number website the Regular Army battalions were on their second time round of using service number 3490. So while that soldier could be the one who originally enlisted in 1892/93 it's more likely to be the one who enlisted between the 14th February 1912, (3356) and the 9th May 1913, (3544). https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2012/03/northumberland-fusiliers-regular.html While that seems more plausible that he joined up in 1908 as a boy soldier, then went out to India, was back being a miner on the 2nd April 1911, but served again in WW1, it does mean he wasn't a boy soldier and probably didn't go out to India until he was 19 - if indeed that is him. His date of first landing isn't consistant with either the 1st Battalion or the 2nd Battalion arriving in France - the latter returned from India in December 1914 and landed at Le Havre via the UK on the 18th January 1915. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/northumberland-fusiliers/ As a miner its is likely that other than for a few specialist roles like tunnelling any application to join the armed forces would have been turned down - miners were seen of greater value to the war effort by continuing in their employment. Indeed as the war went on a number of the early enlisters were discharged to the Army Reserve and released back to their civilian employment. So unless there is any evidence at the family end, there so far isn't any sign of him serving at all. Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky Arnall Posted 6 April Author Share Posted 6 April It sounds rather confusing and sorry Michelle if I'm causing confusing, but I'm very confused. His army number is 3490 and he definitely served in WW1 as a private ranked foot soldier and in the labour corps according to records and family history. Sounds like this is as far as I can go? Michelle are those army records from the National Archives for different people and not my grandad? Thanks. Vicky Arnall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 6 April Admin Share Posted 6 April Only one is your Grandad. Ancestry has the cards individually and in colour. ©️ Ancestry. No reference to the Labour Corps on the card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PRC Posted 6 April Share Posted 6 April 3 hours ago, Vicky Arnall said: according to records Hi Vicky, Which records are those? Cheers, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky Arnall Posted 6 April Author Share Posted 6 April They were what I download from the National Archive according to the information that I provided. I've attached them. Regards. Vicky Arnall WO-372-12-183487 (1) (1).pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 6 April Admin Share Posted 6 April I have posted a colour version of the correct MIC. I’ve already explained that the NA download shows 6 different records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky Arnall Posted 6 April Author Share Posted 6 April Thank you. You probably think I'm a bit thick, but just getting used to reading different materials. Regards. Vicky Arnall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 6 April Admin Share Posted 6 April To save any more confusion , I have merged the two threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 6 April Admin Share Posted 6 April Where did you get the Labour Corps information ?There is nothing on his medal card to suggest service in the LC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicky Arnall Posted 6 April Author Share Posted 6 April Thank you Michelle. From the Northumberland Fusiliers museum, who found a reference on his war record. I've attached what was sent to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 6 April Share Posted 6 April 1 hour ago, Vicky Arnall said: Thank you Michelle. From the Northumberland Fusiliers museum, who found a reference on his war record. I've attached what was sent to me. That database was compiled by forum member @Graham Stewart He may be able to assist further. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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