Admin RussT Posted 10 February Admin Share Posted 10 February So can we work out his service such that the TFEM criteria were fulfilled (which was evidently the case given his TFEM MIC)? I'm sure his number of 73 in the 5/Suffolk Regiment means he was an original member of the 5th Bn TF upon its creation in 1908 Basic criterion for the TFEM was 12 year service in the TF - but did prior service on the VF count (assuming he had such service)? Embodied war service counted double - but he wasn't in the TF when he attested to the Middlesex Regiment in 1914 (discharged in 1919). There seems to plenty of "qualifying" years in principle - but which years were the ones which actually counted to the TFEM qualification for him? Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) 13 minutes ago, RussT said: So can we work out his service such that the TFEM criteria were fulfilled (which was evidently the case given his TFEM MIC)? I'm sure his number of 73 in the 5/Suffolk Regiment means he was an original member of the 5th Bn TF upon its creation in 1908 Basic criterion for the TFEM was 12 year service in the TF - but did prior service on the VF count (assuming he had such service)? Embodied war service counted double - but he wasn't in the TF when he attested to the Middlesex Regiment in 1914 (discharged in 1919). There seems to plenty of "qualifying" years in principle - but which years were the ones which actually counted to the TFEM qualification for him? Russ Yes I believe there were transitional arrangements for ex VF to carry service over provided they signed up for the new TF Ts&Cs. I was reading about it recently but can’t recall where**. His qualifying service for TFEM would’ve been an aggregate. I suspect his initial VF service, plus any bonus for South Africa, then up until 1908. Finally from 1908 until completion of his TF engagement before WW1. I think you’re right about serial number 73 too. **afternote - it was in “Riflemen Form” by Ian F W Beckett. Edited 10 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 10 February Admin Share Posted 10 February 7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Yes I believe there were transitional arrangements for ex VF to carry service over provided they signed up for the new Ts&Cs. I was reading about it recently but can’t recall where**. His qualifying service for TFEM would’ve been an aggregate. Thanks - I thought that was the case too but I wasn't certain about it. So we can perhaps say, in very rough round numbers, that he could have had circa 6 TF years from 1908 to 1914 and immediately before that at least circa 6 years in the VF from 1902 to 1908, meaning he joined the VF soon after his discharge from his Boer War Voluntary Service - unless that also counted - in which case he had an ample number of years to qualify for the TFEM. A tremendous effort - and what a group of medals - marvellous. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Crockson Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February I’ve enlarged the side of the medal. Can you tell me what a MIC is please? Gillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) 6 minutes ago, Gillian Crockson said: I’ve enlarged the side of the medal. Can you tell me what a MIC is please? Gillian Brilliant , it reads 5 / Suffolk. The 7 you thought you saw is just a slash. MIC = medal index card, the most basic level of written administrative record that refers to medal entitlement for each individual soldier, or officer. Edited 10 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Crockson Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February Brilliant. I honestly can’t believe you and RussT have managed to give me the whole of my grandads service history in such a short space of time. I’m extremely grateful to you both. Thank you. Regards Gillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) 2 minutes ago, Gillian Crockson said: Brilliant. I honestly can’t believe you and RussT have managed to give me the whole of my grandads service history in such a short space of time. I’m extremely grateful to you both. Thank you. Regards Gillian It’s been very interesting. His service was extensive and in a way reflects the transitional history of auxiliary military service and the effect of WW1 on the auxiliary and regular forces as a whole. Edited 10 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 10 February Admin Share Posted 10 February Mounting all his Medals in a cabinet would make a very impressive display. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) 9 minutes ago, RussT said: Mounting all his Medals in a cabinet would make a very impressive display. Russ Yes and perhaps Gillian can purchase some Suffolk and Middlesex cap badges to go with them, although original 2nd VB badges would be prohibitively expensive. You can always use photographs of those older badges instead Gillian and make a nice display alongside the medals. They may then be of more interest to any younger family members too. It will bring them alive. Edited 10 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 10 February Admin Share Posted 10 February Just for completeness, here is the TF Attestation for James Wells in the 5th Bn Suffolk Regiment TF in April 1908 when the TF was created - and using that version of the TF Form (E 502) that was specifically used for ex VF men - Wells was ex 2/VB Suffolk. Wells was allotted the number 75, just two digits higher than that for Crockson (73) - it would be safe to conclude that Crockson's Attestation Form would have been identical when he also attested in April 1908. I'm sure Wells and Crockson would have known each other. Russ (Image Courtesy FMP) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) 32 minutes ago, RussT said: Thanks - I thought that was the case too but I wasn't certain about it. So we can perhaps say, in very rough round numbers, that he could have had circa 6 TF years from 1908 to 1914 and immediately before that at least circa 6 years in the VF from 1902 to 1908, meaning he joined the VF soon after his discharge from his Boer War Voluntary Service - unless that also counted - in which case he had an ample number of years to qualify for the TFEM. A tremendous effort - and what a group of medals - marvellous. Regards Russ I think his Boer War service counted towards it too, so plenty as you say**. He was already with 2nd VB when he volunteered for SA. **Ian F W Beckett’s book gives all the detail, but it’s a very dry read… Edited 10 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Crockson Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February That’s brilliant. I have actually ordered a case which holds 5 medals but I shall look into getting a couple of cap badges too. I did actually go to Sudbury a couple of years ago, I took this photo, but sadly couldn’t find out any information. Once again many thanks. regards and best wishes … Gillian Sorry not sure why it’s came out upside down ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February Hope you don't mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February From the Suffolk and Essex Free Press, 22 October 1902 (image courtesy of Find My Past) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February From the Haverhill Echo, 28 June 1902 (image courtesy of Find My Past) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) 11 minutes ago, Allan1892 said: Hope you don't mind That’s the drill station (aka drill hall) where D company attended to train one evening per week and for a few hours at weekends. As well as locations for training, to the men they were also a form of social club and venue for networking. When he returned from SA he received £5 cash. I don’t know what that would be in contemporary money, but it probably helped his life and family at the time. Edited 10 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Crockson Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February Thank you for putting it the correct way round. £5 would certainly have helped he was a coco matting weaver with 9 children, my dad being the youngest. I also read they were given a pouch of tobacco and a pipe. I have the certificate on the wall. Gillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February (edited) I wish you well with your display of his badges and medals Gillian. He epitomises the old attitude of what can I do for my country that’s sadly now largely gone, or at least on the scale that it once was. He might’ve been an auxiliary part-time citizen soldier by inclination, but by accident of political circumstances ended up with more combatant experience than many contemporary regulars, who have not seen active service since 2016. Edited 10 February by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 10 February Admin Share Posted 10 February Evidently a decent shot too - from The Suffolk & Essex Free Press 19/10/1898 He appears near the bottom - perhaps the clock is still in the family ! Russ (Image courtesy FMP). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February 3 minutes ago, RussT said: Evidently a decent shot too - from The Suffolk & Essex Free Press 19/10/1898 He appears near the bottom - perhaps the clock is still in the family ! Russ (Image courtesy FMP). Very interesting to see and shows the engagement that the local community had with their nearby unit and its members. There’s nothing on this scale with contemporary units and as a result there’s a real detachment between the two elements. The Reserve is severely in decline, along with the Regular forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gillian Crockson Posted 10 February Author Share Posted 10 February I’m so impressed with all the information you’ve all managed to find for me. I do remember my grandparents having a mantle clock, whether it was that one I don’t know but my Aunt took it when they died. Gillian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 10 February Admin Share Posted 10 February And this clip from quite an extensive article (FMP link below) in The Bury Free Press 23/03/1901 entitled "Further Contingent of Suffolk Volunteers for South Africa - Send-Off Smoking Concert - Inspection by General Gatacre" 6622 Pte Crockson (Sudbury) - together with some of his pals. Russ The Bury free press 23 March 1901 Page 5 | findmypast.co.uk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 10 February Share Posted 10 February 10 minutes ago, Gillian Crockson said: I’m so impressed with all the information you’ve all managed to find for me. I do remember my grandparents having a mantle clock, whether it was that one I don’t know but my Aunt took it when they died. Gillian It’s very interesting that he never seems to have accepted promotion, which is relatively unusual for a man who served for so long. I suspect that it was probably by his choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 10 February Admin Share Posted 10 February And here he is being presented with his TFEM in 1909 - which now lets us confirm that his 12 qualifying years for the TFEM would have been almost exclusively with his service in the VF. The Evening Star & Daily Herald 15/11/1909 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 10 February Admin Share Posted 10 February Perhaps Frogsmile might be able to find a representative image of his attire - scarlet/yellow facings. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now