Broznitsky Posted 25 January , 2004 Share Posted 25 January , 2004 Garth/Jack: The painting on the left is called "Frezenburg"; it can't be Vimy period as the cloth caps and pickelhaubed Germans are wrong for 1917. I am sure I have seen it described as depicting spring 1915 action. I also think the artists are different. Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottsGreys Posted 25 January , 2004 Share Posted 25 January , 2004 Hi Garth: Could you look up a PPCLI enlisted man for me (probably a private)? Name: Abram Ecker, No. 739099, possibly went transferred into PPCLI from 114th Battalion in March 1917. Supposedly wounded 30 October, 1917. Thanks so much, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJBates Posted 25 January , 2004 Share Posted 25 January , 2004 Peter & Garth: I spoke too soon, and agree with you Peter, the one on the left is Frezenberg by PPCLI soldier's book and also Kit Shop items as well as the recent publication of With the Pats in Flanders 14-18 by Newman, which I just looked up. WB Wollen artist. So were my thoughts they both were of the same battle and different artist's versions. Niven on the left and Niven on the right are how I'm going to refer to them from now on to help ID them. Further to the left one, the two soldiers throwing grenades are Ptes JJ McCormack and J Kelly. MGer is Cpl C Dover, next to him is Pte L Phillips, soldier to right is Pte G Candy, Cpl AG Pearson carrying ammo box, wounded man in trench is Sgt John McDermott. Kelly, Dover died in Ypres action, McC and McD died in 1916. How about that for the family or PPCLI battle researchers. From the 1964 article I mentioned. Classic paintings, worth trying to sort out. regards jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 26 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2004 Hi Guys: I seem to be missing most of the posts in this thread in my web browser. I jump from post number 6 down to Jack's post of Sunday, January 25 with nothing in between. It appears from Jack's last post you've discovered my mistake on the painting on the left (which I can no longer see in the thread) <blush> I was dead wrong on it and knew for certain when I referenced some war art books at work today. Richard Jack did do a Vimy painting, but that's not it. It is, as Jack has stated, "The Second Battle Of Ypres" by W.B. Wollen. If you want to see the Richard Jack Vimy painting, check out the cover of 'Battery Action!: The Story of the 43rd Battery Canadian Field Artillery 1916-1919' ISBN 1-896979-31-9. I regret and apologize for any confusion I may have caused. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottsGreys Posted 26 January , 2004 Share Posted 26 January , 2004 Hi Garth: Could you look up a PPCLI enlisted man for me (probably a private)? Name: Abram Ecker, No. 739099, possibly went transferred into PPCLI from 114th Battalion in March 1917. Supposedly wounded 30 October, 1917. Thanks so much, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJBates Posted 26 January , 2004 Share Posted 26 January , 2004 Garth: No problem, without you and your resources and willingness to respond, as well as Peter's, we would not be as wise as we are today. regards jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 26 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2004 Name: Abram Ecker, No. 739099, possibly went transferred into PPCLI from 114th Battalion in March 1917. Supposedly wounded 30 October, 1917. Hi Chris: Your information is correct. The following is from the PPCLI history: 739099 Echer, A., Pte. Originally overseas unit 114th Battalion Joined PPCLI in the field March 6, 1917 Wounded October 30, 1917 Struck of strength in the field November 18, 1917 You can view his attestation papers here. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 26 January , 2004 Share Posted 26 January , 2004 Hi Garth, I had earlier asked about 21867 Sjt.C.K.McRorie. I have his 14-15 Star, and his National Archives file. He ended up a lieutenant. Anything on him? Cheers, Terry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 26 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 26 January , 2004 I had earlier asked about 21867 Sjt.C.K.McRorie. I have his 14-15 Star, and his National Archives file. He ended up a lieutenant. Anything on him? Hi Terry: Sorry if I missed your post; I still can't view the entire thread. Here's the information on your man: 21867 McRorie C. K., Pte. - Sgt. - Lieut. May 19, 1917 Originally overseas unit 11th Battalion Joined PPCLI in the field June 28, 1915 At E.O.R.D. March to October 1918 Struck of strength in the field March 20, 1919 Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottsGreys Posted 27 January , 2004 Share Posted 27 January , 2004 Garth: Terrific! Thanks so much--I greatly appreciate your efforts. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 27 January , 2004 Share Posted 27 January , 2004 I regret and apologize for any confusion I may have caused. No worries, mate, you are probably still giddy from your Urquhart 16th Battalion acquisition! Eyes misty with book lust, Garth misidentifies a painting. Hey, it could happen to me!! Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJBates Posted 4 February , 2004 Share Posted 4 February , 2004 Garth: Thank you for the pages, very interesting to read and follow the different ones. Cpl C Dover was hard luck. Depicted as the MGer, lost an arm and a leg, blown up and buried, rescued and then killed by a sniper while being carried out. Day of destiny....regards jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gem22 Posted 5 February , 2004 Share Posted 5 February , 2004 Garth Can you answer a query for me please? I was watching a re-run of an edition of MASH on TV last night (are you familiar with it?) and one of the characters claimed to be from the 2nd Batt Princess Pat's. My question is were they still in existence in the Korean war(?) as I thought the regiment had been amalgamated into the Canadian army in ww1? Thanks Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 5 February , 2004 Share Posted 5 February , 2004 PPCLI fought in WWI, WWII, the Korean War, and is still in existence as a combat unit of the Canadian Armed Forces. I think Garth's nephew just joined them. The regiment, raised by a Montreal millionaire in 1914, was always a part of the Canadian army, although in WWI it was "seconded" to serve with the British for several months before coming back to serve with 3rd Division CEF. Peter in Vancouver (pretending to be Canadian Garth) P.S. In the M.A.S.H. episode, did the Canadian character speak with an English accent? MASH was an extremely popular telly series here in North America by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 5 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2004 My question is were they still in existence in the Korean war(?) as I thought the regiment had been amalgamated into the Canadian army in ww1? Hi Garth: During WWI, The PPCLI were privately raised by A. Hamilton Gault and Francis Farquhar in 1914. They recruited men with previous military experience which allowed them to be the first Canadian battalion to enter the war. As Broz mentioned, the PPCLI were "seconded" to the 80th Brigade, 27th Division, BEF. They landed in Belgium on January 5, 1915 and entered the line for the first time on January 6/7. On December 22, 1915 the PPCLI were united with the Canadian Corps as a member of the 7th Brigade. The PPCLI arrived in Korea in December 1950 under the command of Lieutenant Colonel J. R. Stone, DSO, MC. On February 6, 1951, Second Battalion joined the 27th British Commonwealth Brigade and became the first Canadian Infantry Battalion to be involved in the Korean war. The PPCLI left Korea on January 8, 1954. I'm proud to say my grandson joined the PPCLI last summer and seems to be enjoying the rigors of army life. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 5 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2004 Thank you for the pages, very interesting to read and follow the different ones. Hi Jack: Glad to hear Canada Post still works. Here's another snippet of information regarding Hugh Niven. Just before going over the top, during the Battle of Passchendaele on October 30, 1917, Major Talbot Papineau turned to Niven and said "Hughie, this is suicide." Moments later Papineau was hit by an artillery shell. What was left of Papineau's remains could only be identified because he wrapped his putties in a reverse manner. Talbot Papineau was the grandson of Louis-Joseph Papineau, leader of the 1837 Lower Canada Rebellion. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gem22 Posted 5 February , 2004 Share Posted 5 February , 2004 Garth and Broz Thankyou both for your replies. It's good to hear the Pat's are still around. Garth I hope your Grandson enjoys his time in the army. broz MASH was very popular over here, but I still watch the re-runs. The Pats character had a Scots accent, not English, and wore a kilt; though I wasn't aware the Pats were a Highland regiment. Thanks again Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 5 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2004 The Pats character had a Scots accent, not English, and wore a kilt; though I wasn't aware the Pats were a Highland regiment. Hi Garth: Sorry, the PPCLI were never a Highland regiment and never wore kilts. I'm afraid the directors of MASH was exercising their creative imagination. However, they did have a pipe band. It's my understanding the Edmonton City Pipe Band, under the leadership of Pipe-Major C. Colville, accompanied the PPCLI for the duration of WWI. The pipe band wore the Hunting Stewart tartan. I'm hoping James Hill will post more details on the band. Are you there James? Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 5 February , 2004 Share Posted 5 February , 2004 I don't think the Pats are aware they are a Highland regiment!! Muttering: Must not bash American script-writers, do not provoke international incident, must not bash American script-writers, do not provoke international incident, repeat X 20 . . . Peter of New Caledonia (no, I do not live in an Igloo) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 5 February , 2004 Share Posted 5 February , 2004 (no, I do not live in an Igloo) Global warming is definitely getting worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhill Posted 5 February , 2004 Share Posted 5 February , 2004 However, they did have a pipe band. It's my understanding the Edmonton City Pipe Band, under the leadership of Pipe-Major C. Colville, accompanied the PPCLI for the duration of WWI. The pipe band wore the Hunting Stewart tartan. I'm hoping James Hill will post more details on the band. Are you there James? I am afraid that your quote is pretty much the limit of my knowledge of the pipe band. Every Police and Fire Brigade had a pipe band (as they do today!). I do not have a history of this regiment close at hand. I do seem to recall that they went overseas with three bands. I seem to think one was an Edmonton bugle band. We shall have to look that up somewhere. Since you have opened the door, I will give a plug for my home town concerning the founding of this famous regiment. Although the Regiment was designed to represent all parts of the Dominion, and despite the fact that it was eventually reinforced from Ontario, a large chunk of its original strength came from Edmonton. On August 12, 13, and 15 of 1914, contingents of 120, 110, and 65 respectively were sent east. I do not know if the pipe band was included. Also, there were four contingents from University Companies sent out in 1915, totalling about 100, which reinforced the Pats in the field. I believe that Hugh Niven was one of those originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KAYJAY Posted 6 February , 2004 Share Posted 6 February , 2004 Have acquired the two volume history of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry 1914 - 1919. Contains unit history, maps, Roll of Honour, Nominal Roll, Record of Service, and Decorations & Awards. Published 1923. I'd be happy to lookup any information for forum members. Garth Hi Garth, I would be gratefull if you could tell me of any more Mackay / Mckays on the nominal roll. I am aware of 8 at present. 14 Pte John Mckay, 579 Cpl (later Lt.) Mackay Mackay, 546 later 889 Neil Mckay, 1683 Sgt (later Lt.) John Mackay, 51321 Pte Daniel Joseph Mckay, 105762 Cpl David William Mckay, 475927 Pte (later Capt.) James Edward Mackay and 769531 Pte Thomas Mackay. Regards Ken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 6 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2004 Hi Ken: Here's the 10 names listed on the nominal roll: 51321 Pte. D. J. McKay Original Unit - 28th Battalion Joined PPCLI in the field - April 11, 1915 Wounded - May 6, 1915 Struck off strength - May 17, 1915 105762 Pte.-Cpl. D. W. McKay, MM Original Unit - 68th Battalion Joined PPCLI in the field - June 10, 1916 Wounded - September 15, 1916, September 27, 1918 Struck off strength - March 20, 1919 1683 Cpl.-Sgt. Lieut. (July 14, 1917) J. MacKay Original Unit - PPCLI Joined PPCLI in the field - August, 1914 Wounded - May 8, 1915, October 30, 1917 Died of wounds received at Tilloy - September 30, 1918 21647 Pte. J. MacKay Original Unit - 11th Battalion Joined PPCLI in the field - August, 1915 Struck off strength - January 26, 1919 579 Pte.-Cpl. Lieut. (December 10, 1917) M. MacKay, MacK Original Unit - PPCLI Joined PPCLI in the field - August, 1914 Wounded - April 28, 1915 Died of wounds received near Monchy - August 26, 1918 104435 Pte. M. A. McKay Original Unit - 68th Battalion Joined PPCLI in the field - June 10, 1916 Struck off strength - September 11, 1916 Subsequent service - Canadian Railway Troops 884 Pte. N. McKay Original Unit - PPCLI Joined PPCLI in the field - September, 1914 Wounded - May 8, 1915 Struck off strength - May 12, 1915 Subsequent service - Canadian Army Medical Corps 1735 Pte. T. McKay Original Unit - PPCLI Joined PPCLI in the field - August, 1914 Struck off strength - March, 1915 769531 Pte. T. MacKay Original Unit - 124th Battalion Joined PPCLI in the field - January 1, 1917 Killed at Tilloy - September 30, 1918 411110 Pte. W. McKay Original Unit - 1st University Battalion Joined PPCLI in the field - July 28, 1915 Struck off strength - July 30, 1916 Subsequent service - Lieut., C.E.F Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 6 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2004 Hi Ken: Just had a quick look at the nominal roll for the 16th Battalion (Canadian Scottish). There are 22 McKay/MacKay's listed. I guess that's not surprising. The 13th Battalion (Royal Highlanders of Canada) honour roll, which list those KIA or missing, have four on their list. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 6 February , 2004 Author Share Posted 6 February , 2004 Hi Ken: I did a cross check with our lists on the National Archives of Canada web site. Here's the results. From my list: 51321 Daniel Joseph McKay His attestation papers can be found here. 105927 David William McKay His attestation papers can be found here. 1683 John MacKay His attestation papers can be found here. 21647 James McKay His attestation papers can be found here. 579 MacKay, MacKay His attestation papers can be found here. 104435 Malcolm Angus McKay His attestation papers can be found here. 884 (546) Neil McKay His attestation papers can be found here. 1735 Thomas McKay His attestation papers can be found here. 769531 Thomas MacKay His attestation papers can be found here. 411110 Walter McKay His attestation papers can be found here. From your list: 14 John McKay Died in military hospital, Quebec - September 13, 1914 His attestation papers can be found here. 579 MacKay, MacKay (above) 884 (546) Neil McKay (above) correct number is 884 not 889 1683 John MacKay (above) 51321 Daniel Joseph McKay (above) 105927 David William McKay (above) 475927 James Edward MacKay Originally with the 3rd University Company His attestation papers can be found here. 769531 Thomas MacKay Originally with the 124th Battalion His attestation papers can be found here. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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