mordac Posted 22 June , 2003 Share Posted 22 June , 2003 Have acquired the two volume history of the Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry 1914 - 1919. Contains unit history, maps, Roll of Honour, Nominal Roll, Record of Service, and Decorations & Awards. Published 1923. I'd be happy to lookup any information for forum members. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter johnson Posted 22 June , 2003 Share Posted 22 June , 2003 Mordac I have 5 men on our roll of honour who served with the Pats. I have details on 4 of them from the CWGC but would appreciate a look up 1. Albert Kane 2.Charles Geldart 3. Richard Jefferies/no details known 4.J.W.Kilding 5.John Reynolds Many regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlotte cardoen-descamps Posted 22 June , 2003 Share Posted 22 June , 2003 I have just been given a book called "With the Patricia's in Flanders 1914-1918" Then and Now by Stephen K. Newman. I think that this is a most interesting book for people having an interests in PPCLI. I can forward the ISBN number as well as the e-mail address of the author if anyone would like to know this information. Kind regards, Charlotte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 22 June , 2003 Share Posted 22 June , 2003 Charlotte, If you havent seen a copy already, get hold of "Letters of Agar Adamson". He was one of the original Pat's in France in late 1914 as a Company Commander. He later took command of the Bttn on the Somme (I think) and at Ypres. He was often his own censor so the letters (nearly all to his wife) are a very vivid account of the Pat's experiences, as well as an interesting profile on a 50 yr old, nearly blind veteran of the Boer War who was restless enough to seek adventure when war was declared again in 1914. I am sure John will have copies at the Shellhole, otherwise if yr ever as far south as Vimy, there will be copies on sale there. Well worth the investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 23 June , 2003 Author Share Posted 23 June , 2003 Hi Peter: I found 4 of your 5 men. Only Albert Kane was in the PPCLI. (1. Albert Kane) 446209 Pte. A. Kane - Original overseas unit 56th bn., joined PPCLI in field June 10, 1916 - killed at Vimy Ridge October 26, 1916 - buried at Ecoivres Militay Cemetery, location III. H. 15. Attestation papers can be found here: http://data4.archives.ca/netacgi/nph-brs?s..._e.html&r=1&f=G (2. Charles Geldart) 210023 Pte. C. Geldart - Original overseas unit 98th bn. (absorbed by the 12th Reserve Bn. -> reinforced 3rd, 15th, 20th, 75th Battalions in France) joined 20th Bn. in field - killed in Belgium November 6, 1917 - no known grave. Attestation papers can be found here: http://data4.archives.ca/netacgi/nph-brs?s..._e.html&r=1&f=G (3. Richard Jefferies) - no record found for this man. (4. J.W. Kilding) - 646033 Pte. J. W. Kilding - Original overseas unit 158th Bn. [The Duke of Connaught's Own] (absorbed by the 1st Reserve Bn. -> reinforced 7th, 29th, 72nd, Battalions in France) joined the 47th Bn. in field - killed in France February 18, 1918 - buried at Sucrerie Cemetery, location II. D. 5. Attestation papers can be found here: http://data4.archives.ca/netacgi/nph-brs?s..._e.html&r=1&f=G (5. John Reynolds) - 422754 Pte. J. Reynolds, 18th Bn. - killed in France September 15, 1916 - no known grave. (This man is a guess on my part. His place of birth is Ripon, Yorkshire, England; like the three men above. The Canadian National Archives don't have the attestation papers for the name "Reynolds" available on their web site yet, so I can't cross reference the name and battalion number. His serial number would indicate he was with the 44th Bn., but the CWGC site lists him as being with the 18th Bn.) Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 23 June , 2003 Author Share Posted 23 June , 2003 If you havent seen a copy already, get hold of "Letters of Agar Adamson". He was one of the original Pat's in France in late 1914 as a Company Commander. Hi Charlotte & Signals: Lieutenant-Colonel Agar S. A. M. Adamson Appointed Captain P.P.C.L.I., August 1914. Commanded during part of Battle of May 8, 1915 (Bellewaede Lake), and wounded on this day. Rejoined September 24, 1915. Commanded from June 4, 1916, to August 3, 1916. Lieutenant-Colonel Commanding P.P.C.L.I. October 31, 1916. Commanded through 1917 (Battles of Vimy Ridge and Passchendaele). Struck off strength (medically unfit) March 27, 1918, to Can. Corps H.Q. Staff. Subsequently Summary Court Officer at Bonn with the Army of Occupation. D.S.O. Twice mentioned in Despatches. As Signals mentioned, "Letters of Agar Adamson, 1914 - 1919" (ISBN: 1-896979-02-5) is a great read. You can check it out at this web site: http://members.rogers.com/cefbooks/CCsite.html Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest peter johnson Posted 23 June , 2003 Share Posted 23 June , 2003 Garth Many thanks for your time & trouble. All 5 are listed as being with the Pats on the roll of honour for Ripon? This will need looking into Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 23 June , 2003 Share Posted 23 June , 2003 The Agar Adamson book is yet another example of the amazing amount of fine books produced by Canadians on WW1, US and Australia do not come close. Good thing is the books are available in reprint paperback, Westlake has then. Best O' Luck Alexander McClintock Adamson Ghosts Have Warm Hands and Thirteen Years After Will R Bird Journal of Private Fraser, David Fraser edited Rog Roy. Only This J H Pedley MC also outstanding. The Great War As I Saw It, Canon George Frederick Scott, the best loved man in the CEF and after you read this you will not wonder why. 50th Battalion In No Man's Land Victor Wheeler, real good. Get 'em all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJBates Posted 19 January , 2004 Share Posted 19 January , 2004 Garth: Can you look up HW Niven, the officer depicted in two paintings, 2 Ypres & Frezenberg. thanks jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 20 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2004 Hi Jack: From the Nominal Roll & Record of Service (PPCLI): Niven, H.W. Original PPCLI Joined August 1914 Lieutenant and Adjutant-Major Wounded March 19, 1915 and June 2, 1917 S.O.S. November 26, 1917 D.S.O. and Bar, M.C., Mentioned in Despatches (3) From Mentioned in Despatches of the C.E.F.: Niven H.W. (DSO/MC) Lieutenant - PPCLI - London Gazette #29200, June 22, 1915 Captain - Canadian Infantry - London Gazette #29890, January 4, 1917 Major - PPCLI - London Gazette #30706, May 28, 1918 If you're looking for details for specific dates, let me know and I'll look them up. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJBates Posted 22 January , 2004 Share Posted 22 January , 2004 Thank you Garth. Interesting character for study.. He remained in the PPCLI after the war, was stationed in Victoria for a number of years. If possible I would like to see more of what is available. MID's and decorations. As I mentioned, he is depicted in two famous PPCLI paintings. I have a letter to my dad referencing artist's licence and saying he didn't keep his head up as much as the paintings showed. Something to that effect. Have to look it up again.... regards jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 22 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 22 January , 2004 Hi Jack: Here's his DSO and Bar citations: Niven M.C., Hugh Wilderspin Captain For conspicuous gallantry when in command of his company and holding an advanced position. He repulsed the enemy, and hung on to his position when he was practically surrounded and the enemy were calling on him to surrender. He continued to direct operations after being wounded. Niven D.S.O., M.C., Hugh Wilderspin Major For conspicuous gallantry and devotion to duty. He did excellent work in going to the front line during the operations and reorganizing scattered units. He personally carried away the wounded and saw to their evacuation in the face of great difficulties and dangers. His grasp of the situation in the captured position was of high order. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJBates Posted 23 January , 2004 Share Posted 23 January , 2004 Garth: Excellent findings, by any chance can you add his MC citation ? This would allow me to relate to the battles and the paintings. great jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 23 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2004 Hi Jack: London Gazette September 15, 1915 Military Cross Captain Hugh Wilderspin Niven, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry For conspicuous gallantry and coolness during a very heavy bombardment on 8th May, 1915, at Bellegarde lake, east of Yepres, when his battalion suffered very heavy casualties. All the senior officers being disabled, he found himself in charge, and continued to command the battalion with great ability till 15th May. He had previously been brought to notice for consistent good work as Transport Officer, and as Adjutant has done good services, and was was wounded. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 24 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2004 (5. John Reynolds) - 422754 Pte. J. Reynolds, 18th Bn. - killed in France September 15, 1916 - no known grave. (This man is a guess on my part. His place of birth is Ripon, Yorkshire, England; like the three men above. The Canadian National Archives don't have the attestation papers for the name "Reynolds" available on their web site yet, so I can't cross reference the name and battalion number. His serial number would indicate he was with the 44th Bn., but the CWGC site lists him as being with the 18th Bn.) Hi Peter: Here's an update on Pte. John Reynolds, another one of your Ripon men: He did originally enlist with the 44th Battalion on April 19, 1915. The 44th's official history and his attestation papers indicate he was transfered to the 18th Battalion, but they give no date of transfer. An interesting detail is he served 18 months in South Africa. His attestation papers are now on-line and can be accessed here. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 24 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2004 Hi Jack: The M.C. citation for Niven tweaked my curiosity, so I had a look at the PPCLI's history about this action. It was one of their worst days for causalities during the war: 392 officers and men were reported killed, wounded or missing on May 8, 1915. Niven is mentioned by name several times in this narrative. If you'll e-mail me off forum, I'll scan the pages and send them to you. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broznitsky Posted 24 January , 2004 Share Posted 24 January , 2004 he is depicted in two famous PPCLI paintings. I have a letter to my dad referencing artist's licence and saying he didn't keep his head up as much as the paintings showed. Something to that effect. Jack, I have attached two small renditions of the paintings. Would you please point out Niven if possible? Do you recall how your dad met Niven? Peter in Vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJBates Posted 24 January , 2004 Share Posted 24 January , 2004 Peter: Niven is the officer standing and directing activities in both paintings. i believe they both depict the same battle. I can relate info to you about my dad's association with Niven off forum. Have to find some material, although they both served in Victoria with B Coy PPCLI 1921 to 1937. regards jack Garth: Thank you re the MC, yes tweaking understood, emailed as you suggested . jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 24 January , 2004 Share Posted 24 January , 2004 Hello Garth I would appreciate anything that the history has to say about the Pats on 8th May 1915. Thanks in advance Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 24 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2004 I would appreciate anything that the history has to say about the Pats on 8th May 1915. Hi Andy: No problem, please e-mail me off forum and I'll send both you and Jack a copy at the same time. You might be interested with the PPCl losing touch with the KOYLI on their left flank during this action. Niven was involved in holding the left flank. Jack: received your e-mail address. The 9 pages have been scanned and I'll e-mail them to you when I hear from Andy. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mordac Posted 24 January , 2004 Author Share Posted 24 January , 2004 Jack, I have attached two small renditions of the paintings. Would you please point out Niven if possible? These are two classic WWI painting by Richard Jack. The painting on the left is "The Taking of Vimy Ridge, Easter Monday 1917" created in 1919. The painting on the right is "The Second Battle of Ypres, 22 April to 25 May 1915" created in 1917. Both painting contain the classic elements of WWI battlefield art: the empty ammunition cases, the wounded and the dead heros, men moving resolutely forward to hold the line and an officer calmly urging his men on. Those were the days. Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 24 January , 2004 Share Posted 24 January , 2004 Thanks very much Garth, I have emailed you. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 25 January , 2004 Share Posted 25 January , 2004 Hello Garth I have just received your emails. Thankyou very much for your efforts. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJBates Posted 25 January , 2004 Share Posted 25 January , 2004 Garth: The one on the right, assuming Lt Niven, I concur,was painted By Major Richard Jack (1917) depicting 2 Ypres, Battle of Frezenberg, Bellegarde Ridge, was May 8, 1915 where Niven won the MC. That one seems to agree with reference material I have, yours and others as well. So far so good. However, the one on the left I can't find confirming information. I have a 1964 article and picture showing it was Niven, and others by name, some who died in 1916. It was referenced as Ypres, and painted by a W B Wollen (1919). Hence the confusion on my part. Which Ypres battle ? There is a copy of one of the two in the Ashton museum here in Victoria which I will endeavor to see which one it is by name and some copies available on EBay to check. As you point out done in 1917 and 1919 respectively. Do you know when he won the DSO and bar, that may help the ID. What reference do you have for that one ? continuing jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Posted 25 January , 2004 Share Posted 25 January , 2004 Garth, The only PPCLI item in my collection is a 14-15 Star to 21867 Sjt.C.K.McRorie. I have his National Archives file, and he did end up with a cimmission He was a Scot, originally from Lanarkshire. Any mention in your history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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