seaJane Posted 12 January Share Posted 12 January Just lifted this from a Facebook post by the National Museum of the Royal Navy Women's Royal Naval Service. [WRNS] personnel undertaking exercise at Crystal Palace Depot circa 1918. ON: RNM 1989/446/167 Is that snow on the ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 January Share Posted 12 January (edited) 21 minutes ago, seaJane said: Just lifted this from a Facebook post by the National Museum of the Royal Navy Women's Royal Naval Service. [WRNS] personnel undertaking exercise at Crystal Palace Depot circa 1918. ON: RNM 1989/446/167 Is that snow on the ground? I’m not positive, but I don’t think so SeaJane, although I suppose it might be frost. I remember as a boy seeing lots of packed gravel still around the old grounds. Forum members @FionaBam and @crystalpalacefoundation will be interested to see this image. It doesn’t look much like those young ladies are going to break into a sweat does it. Edited 12 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 12 January Share Posted 12 January 17 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: doesn’t look much like those young ladies are going to break into a sweat does it. Ha ha! No it doesn't. Perhaps they were practising their Semaphore Code?😎 17 hours ago, seaJane said: Just lifted this from a Facebook post by the National Museum of the Royal Navy Women's Royal Naval Service. [WRNS] personnel undertaking exercise at Crystal Palace Depot circa 1918. ON: RNM 1989/446/167 Is that snow on the ground? Fabulous photo Seajane! Thank you ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 January Share Posted 12 January 21 minutes ago, FionaBam said: Ha ha! No it doesn't. Perhaps they were practising their Semaphore Code?😎 Fabulous photo Seajane! Thank you ! No, to be fair they are carrying out recommended exercises of the then fashionable Swedish Drill (Calisthenics - often described colloquially as ‘physical jerks’). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 12 January Share Posted 12 January Thats wonderful ! Thank you ! Great photos and diagrams . It looks quite edifying and some useful stretching is going on , and I rather like the womens gym -wear. More attractive and comfy looking than the stuff they sell us nowadays. #callmeoldfashioned 5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: then fashionable Swedish Drill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 January Share Posted 12 January 2 minutes ago, FionaBam said: Thats wonderful ! Thank you ! Great photos and diagrams . It looks quite edifying and some useful stretching is going on , and I rather like the womens gym -wear. More attractive and comfy looking than the stuff they sell us nowadays. #callmeoldfashioned Yes the clothing recommended at the time for such activities included culottes, as they were considered better suited to preserving a lady’s modesty. The story of Swedish Drill and the issues it created especially for British girls schools is a very interesting one. Personally I don’t share your penchant for such archaic attitudes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 12 January Share Posted 12 January 2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: the issues it created especially for British girls schools is a very interesting I can imagine it set the cat amongst the pigeons here in England! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January (edited) 3 minutes ago, FionaBam said: I can imagine it set the cat amongst the pigeons here in England! Yes it was ludicrous and in a similar mold to dressing piano legs. The profoundly sexually repressed and hypocritical English at their best. Edited 13 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January Just to add- I would very happily wear the WRNS' uniform including the hat and shoes tomorrow! @seaJane would you ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 13 January Author Share Posted 13 January 1 hour ago, FionaBam said: Just to add- I would very happily wear the WRNS' uniform including the hat and shoes tomorrow! @seaJane would you ?! Doubt they'd make it in my size! (also,.at the risk of laying myself open to much embarrassment - I take an unusually large size in hats....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January 2 hours ago, seaJane said: much embarrassment - No. How nice to have such a large brain and " one that tells you things" as Pooh Bear famously once said. Trying on woolly hats yesterday I realised what a small head I have. Enough said ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January (edited) The new entry central training unit for WRNS ratings, with stores ratings, writers, despatch riders, and drivers was established at RN Depot Crystal Palace. The officer in charge was Vera Laughton, a young journalist (daughter of Sir John Laughton, the Naval historian). During the next war she would go on to become the Director of the WRNS, serving from its reformation in 1939 until 1946. Back in 1918 the idea of women serving in the navy was all too much for some crusty old salts - one CPO Cook is quoted as having said… ‘Of all the ’orrible things this ’orrible war ’as done, these ’orrible women are the worst.’ MB Images from ‘The WRNS : a history of the Women's Royal Naval Service’ by Marjorie Fletcher. Edited 13 January by KizmeRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January (edited) 1 hour ago, KizmeRD said: one CPO Cook is quoted as having said… ‘Of all the ’orrible things this 'ow dare he! In the group photo of WRNS , the women appear to be enjoying their Naval service , more than can be said for the men serving in the Navy judging by the equivalent group photographs of them. Edited 13 January by FionaBam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January I couldn’t possibly comment further…., I married one (although not WW1 vintage). MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January (edited) 1 hour ago, KizmeRD said: although not WW1 vintage). ☺️ But what a pity that your wife missed out on that lovely uniform ! My aunt is 1946 vintage WRNS so she too missed out on that uniform - Darn it! I could have been in line to inherit it ! Edited 13 January by FionaBam Grammar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 13 January Author Share Posted 13 January 7 hours ago, FionaBam said: such a large brain "Here I am with a brain the size of a planet, and they ask me to pick up a piece of paper ... " Returning to our sheep, thank you @KizmeRD for the photos and information. Poor CPO Cook ... 😄 (I wonder what my grandfather, PO Marsh, thought). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January (edited) 10 hours ago, KizmeRD said: The officer in charge was Vera Laughton, a young journalist (daughter of Sir John Laughton, the Naval historian). During the next war she would go on to become the Director of the WRNS, serving from its reformation in 1939 until 1946. Just to add a little to my own post, I have located a lovely image of Vera in her WRNS uniform from 1918. (Looking very sweet and young, and far less formidable than the photos of her taken during WW2). Interestingly, she was also a member of the Catholic Women's Suffrage Society. Also, IWM photo collection has lots of images of Wrens training in Crystal Palace… (I searched using ‘WRNS, Crystal Palace’ and found around a dozen photos). https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205253174 the Royal Navy on the home front 1914-18 Edited 13 January by KizmeRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seaJane Posted 13 January Author Share Posted 13 January Lovely picture! Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January Yes I second that . An interesting topic- the WRNS being formed at Crystal Palace and the quite extensive local Suffragist societies established in the Anerley area pre WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January 55 minutes ago, FionaBam said: An interesting topic- the WRNS being formed at Crystal Palace and the quite extensive local Suffragist societies established in the Anerley area pre WW1. I’d find it very hard to believe that there was any link between the existence of local suffragette societies in the South London area and the decision taken by the Admiralty to locate WRNS new entry training at Crystal Palace. It simply made a great deal of sense to piggy-back WRNS training off the extensive RNVR training infrastructure already in place at Crystal Palace (which had all the capacity and facilities necessary to satisfy an immediate and pressing need). To do otherwise would have caused unwarranted expense and delay. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 13 January Share Posted 13 January (edited) Of course the decision made by the Admiralty was one of logistics as you explain But the women they recruited to join up? That is my point , made clearer now by my edit - I hope! BUT - .silly me . The recruits didnt just come from the surrounding area in south London. The women came from further afield , even from other parts of Britain? Is that correct now ? In which case I would still say there was a ripple effect nationwide of the new perspectives suggested for women by women through the Suffragette movement. ( Not forgetting women before them like Mary Wollstonecraft etc . May they all rest in peace assured they did not struggle in vain , however....) Edited 14 January by FionaBam Needed clarifying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January (edited) 12 hours ago, FionaBam said: But the women they recruited to join up? That is my point , made clearer now by my edit - I hope! BUT - .silly me . The recruits didnt just come from the surrounding area in south London. The women came from further afield , In which case I would still say there was a ripple effect nationwide of the new perspectives suggested for women by women through the Suffragette movement. ( Not forgetting women before them like Mary Wollstonecraft etc . May they all rest in peace assured they did not struggle in vain , however....) Not at all ‘silly’. There were two categories of female recruit, (1) ‘mobiles’ and (2) ‘immobiles’. Only the mobiles agreed to go anywhere, do anything - the immobiles lived at home and were only required to carry out locally based duties (which in London could involve working at the Crystal Palace Depot, RNC Greenwich, RNAS Wormwood Scrubs, Admiralty Garage (drivers), Hotel Cecil (Air Board) Section; or Deptford (storekeepers). Vera Laughton says in her book ‘Blue Tapestry’ that being involved in the suffrage movement ‘didn’t cut much ice’ in the WRNS, but that the sheer joy of serving, being allowed to work for her country in a wider way than the old limited spheres open to women gave her an entirely new confidence. She also said that the half the recruits, especially immobiles, were only (the minimum) 18 years of age, without much background or education. During Vera’s service at Crystal Palace, the first limited measure of franchise to women was passed (on February 6th, 1918). It was for women over the age of thirty, and she was extremely annoyed to find herself excluded. Although serving in the rank of ‘Principal’ (equivalent to RN Lieutenant-Commander) MP’s still didn’t believe that women such as her could be trusted to vote! MB PS Prior to joining the WRNS, Vera worked as a sub-editor on ‘Women’s Field’ magazine, and was also a volunteer sub-editor for ‘The Suffragette’ newspaper. Edited 14 January by KizmeRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January 2 hours ago, KizmeRD said: There were two categories of female recruit, (1) ‘mobiles’ and (2) ‘immobiles’. Thank you. That's interesting. I wonder if there is a Register somewhere showing where all the recruits came from . I guess there must be as in : Name...... Home address...... Posted to / served at . .... 2 hours ago, KizmeRD said: gave her an entirely new confidence. I expect Vera spoke for many many women who had a role / a job in WW1 and who previously had done domestic duties at home ; also for those women who previously had worked doing similar domestic tasks in other peoples homes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January (edited) 16 minutes ago, FionaBam said: I wonder if there is a Register somewhere showing where all the recruits came from . I guess there must be Reference:RNM 1995/92(1-21) Description: WRNS engagement ledgers Date: 1918-19 Held by National Museum of the Royal Navy (Portsmouth). Not that I’ve ever seen or read them. MB Edit - During its World War I existence, the WRNS complement reached a peak of 438 officers and 5054 ratings. Edited 14 January by KizmeRD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 14 January Share Posted 14 January 52 minutes ago, KizmeRD said: reached a peak of 438 officers and 5054 ratings. That's a sizeable organisation Thanks also for the Ledgers reference . Hmm Portsmouth ...too far away for a visit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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