Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders cap badge, collar badges and shoulder titles on the field 1914

[Cuirassier]

Hi,

I would like to have an idea of the cap badge, collar badges and shoulder titles worn by the EM/NCOs and officers of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders on their service dress on the field in 1914.

 

Thanks in advance for your help and your descriptions.

 

[Pat Atkins]

There are much better informed Forum members than I to answer your question, @FROGSMILE in particular; I will say that I don't think infantry Other Ranks wore collar badges in the field in 1914, though officers did. This was certainly true for Regular Army battalions such as the 2nd Battalion Argylls who were in France from August 1914 and the 1st Bn who landed in late December that year.

According to the Long, Long Trail, the 1/7th Bn also served in France from mid December: they were a Territorial battalion and as such may not have been so "regimental" in adhering strictly to uniform regulations - I suspect Frogsmile will be able to clarify this. 

[Cuirassier]

3 hours ago, Pat Atkins said:

There are much better informed Forum members than I to answer your question, @FROGSMILE in particular; I will say that I don't think infantry Other Ranks wore collar badges in the field in 1914, though officers did. This was certainly true for Regular Army battalions such as the 2nd Battalion Argylls who were in France from August 1914 and the 1st Bn who landed in late December that year.

According to the Long, Long Trail, the 1/7th Bn also served in France from mid December: they were a Territorial battalion and as such may not have been so "regimental" in adhering strictly to uniform regulations - I suspect Frogsmile will be able to clarify this. 

Thanks for your comment.

 

I will contact @FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

9 hours ago, Cuirassier said:

Hi,

I would like to have an idea of the cap badge, collar badges and shoulder titles worn by the EM/NCOs and officers of the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders on their service dress on the field in 1914.

 

Thanks in advance for your help and your descriptions.

 

Officers as at 1914.  Note superior quality fretted centre of bonnet badge (these varied in degree of workmanship and thus expense and were privately purchased, not issued) and bronze collar badges (with T beneath if an auxiliary Territorial battalion).  Glengarry with unique to regiment three rows of white dicing.  Officers more usually had ribbed silk edging (head band).

In the early months of the war khaki spats with red and white ‘hose’ and brogue shoes were worn, plus a khaki kilt apron with central pocket to protect the Campbell tartan kilt (a lighter shade of government tartan [designated No 1a] but otherwise similar to Black Watch.  Dress sporrans were left behind at home, but swords were worn for first few months.

Edited 10 January by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

For other (enlisted men) as at 1914.  Glengarry similar to officers, but usually bound in leather, again with three rows white dicing, plus a simpler badge with limited, or no fretting, depending upon the contract and date. Kilts were much more coarse and later had to be made from softer wool.  Kilt aprons with pockets worn in the field along with simple brogue shoes, scarlet and white hose and khaki spats.  Khaki jackets were issued in standard format and had to be curved at the front by the regular battalions tailors.  This was not always the case with other battalions due to limited access to tailoring and a lack of official sanction.  No collar badges were worn, but brass shoulder titles were.  These were multi tier for auxiliary Territorial battalions.  Buttons were of general service pattern (Royal coat of arms). Waistbelts and equipment were of light khaki cotton web if regulars, or early arrival Territorials, but others were commonly issued the p1914 emergency leather equipment with distinctive snake clasp whose origin went back centuries and was readily obtained from brass metal manufacturers.  Dress sporrans were left at home.  As with all highland regiments, the pipers wore a plain blue glengarry bonnet.

[gordon92]

The tartans worn by the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders have an interesting chronology. The two antecedent regiments, the 91st (Argyllshire Highlanders) and 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders), each wore different tartans. The 91st, which before 1881 wore trews, used a version of the Campbell tartan which contained red and white stripes. The 93rd wore the Sutherland tartan which was the standard Government or Number 1 tartan. This is the same tartan as as worn by the Black Watch.  Upon amalgamation in 1881 the A&SH adopted the Government tartan for both battalions and became a fully kilted regiment after about 1883. The 1st battalion (91st) continued wearing the Campbell tartan until old stocks were exhausted. The kilts of the A&SH and Black Watch at that time differed only in that the former were box pleated and the latter knife pleated. This continued through WW1. It was only after WW1, some say WW2, that the Government 1a tartan with its lighter greens was adopted by the A&SH.

[FROGSMILE]

17 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

The tartans worn by the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders have an interesting chronology. The two antecedent regiments, the 91st (Argyllshire Highlanders) and 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders), each wore different tartans. The 91st, which before 1881 wore trews, used a version of the Campbell tartan which contained red and white stripes. The 93rd wore the Sutherland tartan which was the standard Government or Number 1 tartan. This is the same tartan as as worn by the Black Watch.  Upon amalgamation in 1881 the A&SH adopted the Government tartan for both battalions and became a fully kilted regiment after about 1883. The 1st battalion (91st) continued wearing the Campbell tartan until old stocks were exhausted. The kilts of the A&SH and Black Watch at that time differed only in that the former were box pleated and the latter knife pleated. This continued through WW1. It was only after WW1, some say WW2, that the Government 1a tartan with its lighter greens was adopted by the A&SH.

Sadly, I feel, No 1a has been adopted by the merged Royal Regiment of Scotland (RRS).  It does not look so well when paired with contemporary khaki I think.

As for the erstwhile A&SH, subsequently 5th RRS, they have been reduced to a single company as the permanent public duties component.

NB.  I think you’re probably right that there was no difference between BW and A&SH during WW1, like you I’ve read of that before.  Unfortunately I’ve not ever found proof and of course the A&SH denied it.  There is much myth and counter myth about tartans in general, many of which arguably owe their origin to the fantasies of Sir Walter Scott, who himself started the whole fancier aspects of highland dress off.

 

Edited 10 January by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

22 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Sadly, I feel, No 1a has been adopted by the merged Royal Regiment of Scotland (RRS).  It does not look so well when paired with contemporary khaki I think.

As for the erstwhile A&SH, subsequently 5th RRS, they have been reduced to a single company as the permanent public duties component.

NB.  I think you’re probably right that there was no difference between BW and A&SH during WW1, like you I’ve read of that before.  Unfortunately I’ve not ever found proof and of course the A&SH denied it.  There is much myth and counter myth about tartans in general, many of which arguably owe their origin to the fantasies of Sir Walter Scott, who himself started the whole fancier aspects of highland dress off.

 

Years ago Joe Sweeney researched the BW/A&SH tartans and found documentation that they were identical in WW1. See 6th post down in the linked thread.

It is sad what happened to the A&SH now only a small vestige remaining.

[FROGSMILE]

12 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

Years ago Joe Sweeney researched the BW/A&SH tartans and found documentation that they were identical in WW1. See 6th post down in the linked thread.

It is sad what happened to the A&SH now only a small vestige remaining.

I’m glad you’ve found it.  I do recall it now, because it was an interesting point of conversation at the time.  So postwar it is.  It’s a pity that A&SH don’t appear to have recorded it, as I could find no mention of it in their regimental museum when I visited, nor any recognition when I discussed it with some fellow uniform enthusiasts there.  It was over a decade now, though, so perhaps it’s been rectified/updated.  One would hope so.

Yes it’s a sad outcome for a famous regiment but nothing like as egregious as what’s happened to 1st RSS who are now no more, having been sacrificed on the ludicrous altar of the new Ranger Regiment.  When one considers the age of the old Royal Scots especially, but also the King’s Own Scottish Borderers, it’s a travesty of justice by any standards of fairness.  In effect it’s the almost, complete demise of the oldest Scottish contingent of the British Army, the Lowland Regiments. 

Edited 10 January by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

@Cuirassier by way of comparison of kilts, here are some images for you to compare, both in colour of actual surviving kilts from WW1, and also some contemporaneous photos in good lighting of soldiers wearing subject government tartan kilts.  First of all, the Black Watch.

 

 

Edited 10 January by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

And now Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

 

Edited 10 January by FROGSMILE

[battle of loos]

good eveing,

 

here is some object to my collection about the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders at Loos :

panel :

find on Hill 70 - 11th A&SH :

glengarry :

regards

michel

[Cuirassier]

29 minutes ago, battle of loos said:

good eveing,

 

here is some object to my collection about the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders at Loos :

panel :

find on Hill 70 - 11th A&SH :

glengarry :

regards

michel

Very nice! Thank you for sharing.

[FROGSMILE]

Thank you for posting Michel, it is always good to see your artefacts plucked from the field of battle.  For there can be no doubt of their provenance. 

Edited 10 January by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

And now Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders.

 

Excellent photos of the surviving WW1 kilts! I would add that the Highland knots on the Black Watch kilt and the panel/rosettes on the A&SH kilt were only affixed to the kilts of the officers and sergeants.

Below is what I believe to be an image of an original color photograph dated as 1928 at Hythe. The Government Number 1 tartan kilts are evident. This suggests that the changeover to Government 1a occurred after this date. Note the snugly fitting jackets typical of post war.

[FROGSMILE]

38 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

Excellent photos of the surviving WW1 kilts! I would add that the Highland knots on the Black Watch kilt and the panel/rosettes on the A&SH kilt were only affixed to the kilts of the officers and sergeants.

Below is what I believe to be an image of an original color photograph dated as 1928 at Hythe. The Government Number 1 tartan kilts are evident. This suggests that the changeover to Government 1a occurred after this date. Note the snugly fitting jackets typical of post war.

Yes, several of the kilt images are from accredited museum collections with provenance, others from private collections with documentation. 

I agree that the kilts in the image you posted definitely look like Government No 1 from the colour rendering.  That said it’s an unusually vivid, almost Technicolor quality colour print for a 1928 image that leaves me a tad suspicious.  How positive are we that this is not a colourised black and white print?  The white of the sporran tassels in particular is unrealistically pristine.  It looks as if it might be a National Geographic print that’s been treated.

Edited 11 January by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

Apparently it was a colour process created by a technique using potato starch:

“In 1928, photographer Clifton R. Adams was commissioned by the National Geographic to document life in England. Adams’ beautiful Autochromes—a process of producing color images by using potato starch—present images that are seemingly at odds with the historical reality of the time, capturing the last of an England that was on the cusp of an irreversible change during the about the 1930s Depression.”  See: https://blog.scienceandmediamuseum.org.uk/autochromes-the-dawn-of-colour-photography/

Edited 11 January by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

17 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Apparently it was a colour process created by a technique using potato starch:

“In 1928, photographer Clifton R. Adams was commissioned by the National Geographic to document life in England. Adams’ beautiful Autochromes—a process of producing color images by using potato starch—present images that are seemingly at odds with the historical reality of the time, capturing the last of an England that was on the cusp of an irreversible change during the about the 1930s Depression.”  See: https://blog.scienceandmediamuseum.org.uk/autochromes-the-dawn-of-colour-photography/

Very interesting information. Thank you for researching this. There was a color movie shot of the 1911 Delhi Durbar. I wonder if the autochrome process was applied to movie film. I have seen small snippets of the Delhi Durbar but have been unable to locate a full version on the internet. Have not looked recently, however.

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, gordon92 said:

Very interesting information. Thank you for researching this. There was a color movie shot of the 1911 Delhi Durbar. I wonder if the autochrome process was applied to movie film. I have seen small snippets of the Delhi Durbar but have been unable to locate a full version on the internet. Have not looked recently, however.

Apparently it was a 3-colour powdered coating cemented and pressed onto individual plates that then had the lens expose light onto them for each individual image (see link above).  Moving film seems unlikely for that process, but for the individual prints it certainly gave extraordinarily vivid colours.  

Edited 11 January by FROGSMILE

[gordon92]

10 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Apparently it was a 3-colour powdered coating cemented and pressed onto individual plates that then had the lens expose light onto them for each individual image (see link above).  Moving film seems unlikely for that process, but for the individual prints it certainly gave extraordinarily vivid colours.  

You're up late!

This film was made with a process called Kinemacolor. This is explained in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_Our_King_and_Queen_Through_India. Embedded is a 2 minute clip of the original film.

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, gordon92 said:

You're up late!

This film was made with a process called Kinemacolor. This is explained in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/With_Our_King_and_Queen_Through_India. Embedded is a 2 minute clip of the original film.

It surprises me how long it took for colour cinematography to become widespread in the U.K. when one considers how common it became in Germany (Deutsche Woschenschau) and the United States.  One can only assume it was the expense of the technology.

Edited 11 January by FROGSMILE