FROGSMILE Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January (edited) 4 minutes ago, Bob Davies said: 3rd Battalion Worcesters are at Tidworth 1912. Screen shot courtesy National Library Scotland. Looks good, just need to check the location of the other regiments to be 100% sure now. Edited 2 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 2 January Admin Share Posted 2 January (edited) 5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Looks good, just need to check the location of the other regiments to be 100% sure now. Screenshot courtesy of National Library Scotland. Edited 2 January by Bob Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January 5 minutes ago, Bob Davies said: Screenshot courtesy of National Library Scotland. That’s the Cheshire’s ruled out 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 2 January Admin Share Posted 2 January Just now, FROGSMILE said: That’s the Cheshire’s ruled out 👍 Screenshot courtesy of National Library Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January 4 minutes ago, Bob Davies said: Screenshot courtesy of National Library Scotland. And the East Surreys too 👍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 2 January Admin Share Posted 2 January Just now, FROGSMILE said: And the East Surreys too 👍 I nearly forgot these chaps. Screenshot courtesy of National Library Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January (edited) 3 minutes ago, Bob Davies said: I nearly forgot these chaps. Screenshot courtesy of National Library Scotland. That’s the lot ruled out Bob, Worcestershires it must indeed be. Edited 2 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 2 January Admin Share Posted 2 January 5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: That’s the lot ruled out Bob, Worcestershires it must indeed be. Indeed so. The Regiments all having a precedence certainly helps looking through Harts lists, with the help of the LLtrail lists. Admittedly I only ever remember the Leicesters as being the 17th Regiment of Foot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January (edited) 41 minutes ago, Bob Davies said: 3rd Battalion Worcesters are at Tidworth 1912. They went there Sept 1911 and left Sept 1914 as I stated earlier.( But that last date was due date and war must have altered this, I suspect!!) Edited 2 January by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 2 January Admin Share Posted 2 January 1 minute ago, charlie962 said: They went there Sept 1911 and left Sept 1914 as I stated earlier. We were ruling out the other similar shaped cap badges Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January Just now, Bob Davies said: We were ruling out the other similar shaped cap badges Charlie That's good work. Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 2 January Admin Share Posted 2 January Just now, charlie962 said: That's good work. Sorry No problem Charlie, thanks for your efforts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January (edited) So to recap we have strong candidates as brothers: Bernard Arthur Breese 10557 (but was he known as Bertie?) Brother Joseph William Breese 8702 (who appears in some army records as William J and thus could be Bill) BWMVM Roll courtesy Ancestry No, that William in the middle is not a brother! He was born, resident and enlisted in Stourbridge. He was killed Jan 1916. And his Worcesters number wasn't issued till June 1912, too late for the photo! Edited 2 January by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January 11 minutes ago, charlie962 said: So to recap we have strong candidates as brothers: Bernard Arthur Breese 10557 (but was he known as Bertie?) Brother Joseph William Breese 8702 (who appears in some army records as William J and thus could be Bill) BWMVM Roll courtesy Ancestry That definitely looks right to me Charlie. Good result! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 2 January Share Posted 2 January (edited) If it's the right men then Bernard was killed 1914, his father died 1915, his mother died 1916, his brother was killed 1916. I've not tried looking at the rest of the family. That may be why there are no obvious obits in the papers? I had hoped to find an In Memoriam saying 'Bert' but cannot. The 1913 marriage cert for Joseph William Breece may give his address in Hockley?? Edited 2 January by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 3 January Author Share Posted 3 January Heck! Such impressive activity since last I visited the GWF! Thanks to everyone, especially to TullochArd for providing a close-up of the cap badge - which might have taxed me and my cheapo PSC. Frogsmile observed that troops would march at ease 'usually as soon as leaving conurbation and for as long as on an open country road. Each time entering a town or village the command would be given “March to attention”. Step would then be kept and rifles sloped.' That was my thought as well, and certainly soldiers out on the Plain as depicted on other cards look very relaxed. In this case, the kerb and lamp-post suggest to me a town or village. I confess that the Tidworth Barracks postmark led me to assume that the men were in nearby Ludgershall, though it could just well be Tidworth village - or any other habitation. (There's no publisher's imprint on the card.) Some of the men have had their attention caught by someone or something on their left - a pretty lady? a pub? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 3 January Admin Share Posted 3 January 2 minutes ago, Moonraker said: Heck! Such impressive activity since last I visited the GWF! Thanks to everyone, especially to TullochArd for providing a close-up of the cap badge - which might have taxed me and my cheapo PSC. Frogsmile observed that troops would march at ease 'usually as soon as leaving conurbation and for as long as on an open country road. Each time entering a town or village the command would be given “March to attention”. Step would then be kept and rifles sloped.' That was my thought as well, and certainly soldiers out on the Plain as depicted on other cards look very relaxed. In this case, the kerb and lamp-post suggest to me a town or village. I confess that the Tidworth Barracks postmark led me to assume that the men were in nearby Ludgershall, though it could just well be Tidworth village - or any other habitation. (There's no publisher's imprint on the card.) Some of the men have had their attention caught by someone or something on their left - a pretty lady? a pub? Thank you for posting the picture Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 3 January Author Share Posted 3 January Nowadays I seldom buy postcards showing "soldiers marching" unless the background is of interest (an identifiable building, village or town - and Stonehenge), but this one had more "character" than most - and it cost me only £2.99 plus p & p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 3 January Share Posted 3 January (edited) 7 hours ago, Moonraker said: Heck! Such impressive activity since last I visited the GWF! Thanks to everyone, especially to TullochArd for providing a close-up of the cap badge - which might have taxed me and my cheapo PSC. Frogsmile observed that troops would march at ease 'usually as soon as leaving conurbation and for as long as on an open country road. Each time entering a town or village the command would be given “March to attention”. Step would then be kept and rifles sloped.' That was my thought as well, and certainly soldiers out on the Plain as depicted on other cards look very relaxed. In this case, the kerb and lamp-post suggest to me a town or village. I confess that the Tidworth Barracks postmark led me to assume that the men were in nearby Ludgershall, though it could just well be Tidworth village - or any other habitation. (There's no publisher's imprint on the card.) Some of the men have had their attention caught by someone or something on their left - a pretty lady? a pub? They wouldn’t usually march to attention for small hamlets and villages but generally did so for the last quarter mile back to barracks. As regards the soldiers attention (one is waving) that you observed, I think from the backdrop behind them that they are entering Tidworth and passing the Ram Inn on their left. The main approach road passes it as one enters North Tidworth and heads towards the garrison on the right. The black and white photo below shows how it looked when I was stationed there. The troops would be approaching the cameraman face on in that shot and he would have been positioned on the corner. Edited 3 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 3 January Share Posted 3 January 39 minutes ago, Moonraker said: but this one had more "character" than most - and it cost me only £2.99 plus p & p. Good purchase. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 3 January Admin Share Posted 3 January (edited) 22 hours ago, charlie962 said: So to recap we have strong candidates as brothers: Bernard Arthur Breese 10557 (but was he known as Bertie?) Brother Joseph William Breese 8702 (who appears in some army records as William J and thus could be Bill) BWMVM Roll courtesy Ancestry No, that William in the middle is not a brother! He was born, resident and enlisted in Stourbridge. He was killed Jan 1916. And his Worcesters number wasn't issued till June 1912, too late for the photo! Charlie and all, we have here a hero of Gheluvelt, 31st October 1914, by the name of 10557 Pte Bernard Breese. 2nd Worcesters. All was nearly lost at Ypres, the 1st South Wales Borderers were hanging on by a thread when the 2nd Worcesters arrived to help out. Official history here; https://archive.org/details/militaryoperatio02edmo/page/278/mode/2up Full story in the link here. There is a list of the Worcesters killed, nearly at the bottom of the page. http://www.worcestershireregiment.com/h_gheluvelt.php With this quite probable link to 10557 Pte Bernard Breese. 2nd Worcesters/Gheluvelt @Moonraker, I bet the Worcestershire Regiment museum would be very proud to have a copy of the postcard and to know the history that @charlie962 has found. Worcestershire are extremely proud of their Regiment. Only me thinking out loud and please tell me off if I have over stepped a mark here. Regards, Bob. 9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: They wouldn’t usually march to attention for small hamlets and villages but generally did so for the last quarter mile back to barracks. As regards the soldiers attention (one is waving) that you observed, I think from the backdrop behind them that they are entering Tidworth and passing the Ram Inn on their left. The main approach road passes it as one enters North Tidworth and heads towards the garrison on the right. The black and white photo below shows how it looked when I was stationed there. The troops would be approaching the cameraman face on in that shot. Great job, FROGSMILE, you have it there. I hope they were happy times for you to remember. Regards, Bob. Edited 3 January by Bob Davies punctuation...and to add some more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 3 January Share Posted 3 January (edited) 1 hour ago, Bob Davies said: Charlie and all, we have here a hero of Gheluvelt, 31st October 1914, by the name of 10557 Pte Bernard Breese. 2nd Worcesters. All was nearly lost at Ypres, the 1st South Wales Borderers were hanging on by a thread when the 2nd Worcesters arrived to help out. Full story in the link here. There is a list of the Worcesters killed, nearly at the bottom of the page. http://www.worcestershireregiment.com/h_gheluvelt.php Great job, FROGSMILE, you have it there. I hope they were happy times for you to remember. Regards, Bob. Footsore rather than happy as such after a route march over the plain Bob. 1 RWF were very old school. I can still remember the CSM repeating the order down the line “March to Attention” as we approached Lucknow Barracks after a 10-miler in marching order. I asked questions and learned it was battalion standard practice and it was only my subsequent reading of historical matters subsequently that helped me understand where that deeply ingrained practice came from. The regiment had never been amalgamated since 1689 and routines and terminology were passed down with remarkable consistency. We paraded in “musketry order” long after muskets existed and collected our rifles from the small red brick lock ups with hand painted signs: A-Company “arms kot” (Hindustani for secure place). These are just a couple of examples. Apparently the Battalion had been in Lucknow Barracks many times before too! Edited 3 January by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 3 January Author Share Posted 3 January In contemporary accounts of soldiering in Wiltshire in the early 20th century, many estimates of miles marched (such as from a railway station of disembarkation to a camping-site or barracks) were over-stated. But then after a long rail journey, burdened with haversack and rifle, a soldier might be forgiven for thinking every mile was more like 2,000 yards. Some years ago, I concluded a walk with what seemed to be a never-ending stretch from Fighledean to Tidworth. Likewise last August on the old Devizes-Salisbury road across the Larkhill ranges, the last mile to Bustard seemed to have been stretched by 50 per cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 3 January Share Posted 3 January "Troops marching at Ease - but a Shambles" is an accurate account of we appear to see and we've certainly had some wonderful input on this great photo. I have to mention that this a photo of two halves....... we have the expected shambolic activity above the waist belt: headdress on the backs of head, talking, buttons undone, webbing loosened and rifles held all over the place - all typical of March at Ease. Now focus on the other half below the waist belt - not a man out of step regardless of what is happening above the waist belt. The 1896 Infantry Drill Pamphlet (The Drill Pamphlet 100 years ago was more about delivering force and tactical firepower rather than ceremonial) emphasises that troops will be ordered to March at Ease as soon as this step is re-established after every hourly rest......so on Fall In after every break they move off At Attention and re-establish the all important measured tread. It also mentions the only time step will be broken is when crossing bridges and the records the only prescribed activity whilst Marching at Ease is drinking water. Great photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinspace Posted 3 January Share Posted 3 January (edited) Charlie and all, we have here a hero of Gheluvelt, 31st October 1914, by the name of 10557 Pte Bernard Breese. 2nd Worcesters. Wonderful work on this man. However, IWM has a slightly different story? https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/482204 Could have been killed shortly before Gheluvelt in Polygon Wood? Dave Edited 3 January by lostinspace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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