1806 AM2 / Sgt Arthur M Morgan RFC/ RAF (MT Driver)

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

Good Afternoon and Happy New Year to you all, Could anyone offer an explanation as to how the above gentleman could enlist in the Royal Flying Corps in October 1914 be in France in November 1914 and be awarded a 1914 Star and clasp?  Were certain trades sent directly to France with no training? Very intriguing.  Kind Regards Clive

[KizmeRD]

Presumably he could already drive before enlisting, so was useful and went.

He first arrived in France on 6th Nov 1914 (so qualified for the 1914 Star as was in theatre prior to the 22 Nov cut-off date).

Quite what he was doing there, others may tell…

MB

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

48 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

Presumably he could already drive before enlisting, so was useful and went.

He first arrived in France on 6th Nov 1914 (so qualified for the 1914 Star as was in theatre prior to the 22 Nov cut-off date).

Quite what he was doing there, others may tell…

MB

Thanks MB I have read somewhere on a previous post on the Great War Forum of a time served Coppersmith carrying out a trade test and being sent to France with only two weeks basic training so not as unusual as I first thought and then of course there were the London Omnibus drivers. Kind Regards and thank you for your response Clive

[charlie962]

23 hours ago, Clive ex RAF plumber said:

Were certain trades sent directly to France with no training?

Certainly true in the Army Veterinary Corps where experienced horsekeepers skipped all the military training and arrived in France in a couple of weeks.

So why not for experienced motor drivers, particularly in the RFC.

In civil life Morgan was a chauffeur and when he attested he was 32. He served in France with 16 Squadron.

Edited 3 January by charlie962

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

12 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Certainly true in the Army Veterinary Corps where experienced horsekeepers skipped all the military training and arrived in France in a couple of weeks.

So why not for experienced motor drivers, particularly in the RFC.

In civil life Morgan was a chauffeur and when he attested he was 32. He served in France with 16 Squadron.

HI Charlie 962, Thanks for the response and information, perhaps he was a chauffeur to someone who was someone in the Royal Flying Corps or more likely he just wanted to do his bit like an awful lot of his generation at that time.  Kind Regards Clive  

[KizmeRD]

Seeing as No. 16 Squadron was formed (cobbled together) in Feb. 1915 out of existing elements of Nos. 2, 5 & 6 Squadrons based at St.Omer, AM2 Morgan would have initially have served with one of those original units

MB

[Keith_history_buff]

At the same time, I recall that drivers of motor cars were accepted in the Royal Navy in 1914, on the proviso they brought their car with them, and appear on the 1914 Star medal roll.

There will be others on the forum with a more in-depth knowledge than I, but I believe there was desperation to recruit motor drivers to the ASC, with the result that a premium was paid as a driver allowance.

What I find particularly interesting here is that he applied for a clasp to his 1914 Star, so whatever his duties were during November 1914, he was not rear echelon, but was within range of German artillery. Unfortunately, this is one of those instances where it would be great to know more, but nothing further is forthcoming from the service record.

[charlie962]

If you look at the RAF airmens' service records for men with near numbers to 1806 you will find others who were chauffeurs who had sometimes a similar speedy transfer to France, qualifying for the 1914 Star.

Eg

Hooper 1803  Chauffeur

Tibbitts 1801  Chauffeur

 

[charlie962]

35 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

Seeing as No. 16 Squadron was formed (cobbled together) in Feb. 1915 out of existing elements of Nos. 2, 5 & 6 Squadrons based at St.Omer, AM2 Morgan would have initially have served with one of those original units

MB

Ah. That sounds logical.

I'd merely quoted from his service record, and it does leave scope for interpretation of when actually he reached 16Sqdn.

Courtesy Findmypast

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

28 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

he applied for a clasp to his 1914 Star, so whatever his duties were during November 1914, he was not rear echelon, but was within range of German artillery.

Was he succesful?

[KizmeRD]

If I were a betting man I’d put my money on him going to No. 6 Squadron - who moved to Bailleul at the end of October.
Although, having said that, it wasn’t unusual for individual flights to be forward deployed closer to the front line, or indeed for driver mechanics to be sent forward in order to recover/repair downed aircraft and/or bring airmen back to base.

MB

[charlie962]

5 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Was he succesful?

I presume that is what is referred to as Mark of Distinction

Courtesy Ancestry 

[KizmeRD]

I think the ‘distinction’ refers to the issue of the ‘5th AUG.–22nd NOV. 1914’ clasp for attaching to the medal ribbon (1914 Star).

MB

[Keith_history_buff]

The MIC document rejections, as well as successful applications that result in the issuance of a medal. The MIC documents the issue of a clasp.

Issue Voucher 2077 C dated 27 September 1920
Clasp 2/2463

[Keith_history_buff]

Looks like an error with the paperwork referring to 16 Squadron

No 16 Squadron was formed at Saint-Omer, France on 10 February 1915; from elements of Numbers. 2, 6, and 9 Squadrons.

So, did he leave 16 Squadron, and return to Great Britain ('H. Estab.') on 27 September 1916, having been struck off the strength of 16 Squadron on 25 September 1916?

 

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

Thank you all for the very useful information, to add a few more details I do have A. M. Morgan's medals these comprise the 1914 Star + clasp, BWM & VM.  The 1914 Star states correctly his unit as RFC and the BWM and VM RAF, which means he served in a war zone presumably the Western Front after the 1st April 1918.  I am currently reading 'Hawker VC RFC Ace' who flew to France with 6 Squadron on the 8th October 1914 and they were based near Ypres which would have been in range of German artillery, so I would agree with KizmeRD that he more than likely served with 6 Squadron (fingers crossed he did). Kind Regards to you all Clive  

[charlie962]

3 minutes ago, Clive ex RAF plumber said:

served in a war zone presumably the Western Front after the 1st April 1918.

See that extract (slightly blurred) I posted from his Service record.

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

1 minute ago, charlie962 said:

See that extract (slightly blurred) I posted from his Service record.

Thank you, yes it shows him serving in France from the 10.11.18 a day before the armistice, lucky boy. Regards Clive  

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

1 hour ago, Clive ex RAF plumber said:

Thank you, yes it shows him serving in France from the 10.11.18 a day before the armistice, lucky boy. Regards Clive  

The 10th November 1918 is of no consequence, he would have got his BWM & VM as a result of his 1914 service.
Were flyers with pre- and post April 1918 active service issued with RAF impressed medals or RFC? In the army, they would have been impressed with the earliest qualifying service.

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

1 minute ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

The 10th November 1918 is of no consequence, he would have got his BWM & VM as a result of his 1914 service.
Were flyers with pre- and post April 1918 active service issued with RAF impressed medals or RFC? In the army, they would have been impressed with the earliest qualifying service.

The only consequence of his return to France on the 10.11.18 is that his BWM and VM were impressed with RAF and not RFC as they would have been if he had not returned before the end of the war.

[Keith_history_buff]

The MIC has one line item only, which makes sense. As at the time that he became eligible for the 1914 Star, he was serving in a unit of the British Army. Below is a reproduction of the medal roll, copyright of, and courtesy of Ancestry.

 

It would be nice if there were Air Ministry medal rolls for the BWM & VM, and the silver war badges they issued. Had they survived, I would have envisaged they would have already been transferred to Kew.

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

8 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

The MIC has one line item only, which makes sense. As at the time that he became eligible for the 1914 Star, he was serving in a unit of the British Army. Below is a reproduction of the medal roll, copyright of, and courtesy of Ancestry.

 

It would be nice if there were Air Ministry medal rolls for the BWM & VM, and the silver war badges they issued. Had they survived, I would have envisaged they would have already been transferred to Kew.

Thanks Keith it's a great shame the Air Ministry medal rolls were destroyed in the last war, it's strange to think that if he hadn't returned to France on the 10.11.18 his BWM and VM would have been issued by the Army and impressed to the RFC ,one day made a big difference.

[Keith_history_buff]

Yes, I concur. There can't be that many instances of RFC veterans like him who returned to the Western Front in November 1918.

I am intrigued as to what activities he was performing 4 years prior in November 1914, within range of German artillery.

[Clive ex RAF plumber]

1 minute ago, Keith_history_buff said:

Yes, I concur. There can't be that many instances of RFC veterans like him who returned to the Western Front in November 1918.

I am intrigued as to what activities he was performing 4 years prior in November 1914, within range of German artillery.

So am I, from reading 'Hawker VC RFC Ace' if we could link him to 6 Squadron, they were definitely at times based in the range of German artillery.  What a shock and how frightening it must have been to someone who was a civilian in October to be under potential enemy fire in November. Regards Clive

[Keith_history_buff]

For completeness, here is a reproduction of the promotions table of his service record card, copyright of, and courtesy of Ancestry, archive reference AIR 79/24/1806