Military Medal - 40592 John William Fisher 10th Battalion Essex Regiment

[MegJ]

Hi,

I’ve been researching my great Grandads wartime history as he never spoke about it and my Grandad is keen to find out about it. I discovered he was awarded the military medal. We’re really hoping to find out what he was awarded it for and was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction of where to look.

The detail I have so far is that he was in the 10th Battalion of the Essex regiment and his number was 40592. He has originally been in the Lincolnshire regiment (4036) His military medal was entered in the London Gazette on 22nd February 1918. We believe he was a dispatch rider based on the little he did say about his service. 
 

Any help on where to look now would be greatly appreciated. 

[RussT]

Welcome to the Forum !

He might be mentioned in the 10th Battalion Essex Regiment War Diary, which can be downloaded for free from the National Archives here:

Search results: 10 essex battalion | The National Archives

[RussT]

I would be interested to learn how you know he was with the 10th Battalion of the Essex rather that a different Battalion of that Regiment - does it say the 10th on his Gazette entry?

Regards

Russ

[RussT]

Just to mention that the citations for the MMs went up in smoke during WW2 bombing in London so it can be sometimes difficult/impossible to find the reason why the award was made - hence why I suggested the War Diary as an alternative.

I see his Gazette entry does say for bravery in the field so it must have been for a specific act I believe. I noted it doesn't mention 10th/Bn so my earlier question above holds.

Russ

[MegJ]

Hi Russ,

Thank you for all your advice. I did think it would be a difficult thing to find but since I only just found this forum I thought it might be worth asking for tips in case others had managed! 
 

I’ll give the war diaries a look. It was something someone sent me a while back which stated his battalion- I think it was a small slip stating who was awarded it, their number, corps and when it would be in the gazette.

Thank you again!

Megan

[PRC]

The MM Card in the National Archive does show 10th Battalion, Essex Regiment. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6159445

Forum member @Ivor Anderson may be able to deduce something from the schedule number (140119).

Unfortunately the Essex Regiment Medal Roll for the Victory Medal and British War Medal does not show units served with in a Theatre of War - indeed it routinely only shows initials.

Cheers,
Peter

[MegJ]

Hi Peter

Thank you very much for this. It was this I was referring to (sorry for my poor description earlier- complete amateur with this stuff!)

Thanks again 

Megan

[RussT]

 

Looks to be that a large group of men were transferred from the 4th (Reserve) Battalion Lincolnshire Regiment (via an Infantry Base Depot) to the 10th Battalion Essex Regiment on 06/10/1916 - so you would need to look at the 10th Battalion War Diary from at least that date onwards.

Russ

[kenf48]

He is listed in the war diary of the 10th Bn Essex Regiment at the end of November 1917  amongst several officers and men granted awards:

Image WO95/2038/1-5 Courtesy of Ancestry

The awards were for an action which occurred on the 22nd October when the Battalion was ordered to attack, capture and consolidate the Brewery in the town of Poelcappelle and any other parts of the town still occupied by the Germans.  A phase of the Third Battle of Ypres or (incorrectly for the purists) passed into folklore as Passchendaele.

There is an extensive narrative account of the action in the war diary. It mentions by name some of the officers and men shown on the above list. Unfortunately Pte Fisher is not mentioned.  Briefly, at Zero hour at 5.35a.m. it was raining, there was mud on the approach and many became casualties  as the Battalion was shelled when forming up.  In spite of these difficulties and poor visibility the Battalion achieved its initial objectives by 8 a.m. and continued to fight, the Germans evacuated the village and it was secured. At about 4.30pm the enemy launched a counter attack which was fought off.  The battalion was relieved in the evening but had paid a heavy price in casualties for their success.

The citations for the MC (officers) and DCM listed have survived but as noted above those for the MM have not.  It is always worth looking at the higher level war diaries i.e. Brigade and Division for context and correspondence.

 

 

[RussT]

Good work Ken.

Thanks for posting that.

Russ

[PRC]

53 Bde attacked with 8th Bn, Norfolk Regt followed by 10th Bn, Essex Regt. Their objective was the Brewery. At the same time as the advance began the Brigade launched a Chinese attack to distract German attention away from the real one. The Norfolks took the Brewery by 7.30 am and then the Essex advanced through them taking Noble’s Farm and Meunier House. They paused while a short barrage fell on Tracas Farm and then occupied it.

If it's of any interest \ context, heres the appendix from the 8th Battalion Norfolks Regiments War Diary describing the action.

Short narrative of the part played by the 8th (Service) Battalion, The Norfolk Regiment during the Poelcappelle operations on the 22nd October 1917.

On the afternoon of the 20th, the Battalion arrived at CANE TRENCH and here bivouacked for the night. The same evening 2nd Lieut. H J CHAPMAN together with the battalion scouts went forward to our forming up area and laid the preliminary guiding wires.

By 12 noon on the 21st October, all battle stores had been issued and all plans completed. At 4 pm 2Lieut H J CHAPMAN went forward with platoon guides and markers to lay out the forming up tapes. At about 7 pm all Company Commanders together with Battalion Headquarters went along to reconnoitre the assembly area and meet the Battalion when it arrived. The first company moved off towards  the line at 8.15pm, and the remaining companies followed at intervals of 15 minutes.

At 2 am a wire was sent to Brigade (FQR.10) informing them that the Battalion was in battle position.

Companies sustained remarkably few casualties during the forming up period.

The ground was a muddy desolation of shell holes and to make matters worse a light drizzle set in. Throughout the wait for zero in the assembly position, the battalion was intermittently shelled.

Our right company, (“C” Company), found that its forming up ground was nothing but a swamp and a few minutes before zero moved forward about 100 yards to more solid ground.

The barrage of the Division on our left commenced 3 minutes before zero, but punctually at 5.35am (Zero hour), when it was dusk and with rain falling, our barrage opened. The half light of dawn and the ground mist made it impossible for our men to see more than 200 yards in front of them. Our men advanced with the barrage, keeping in close touch with it as it lifted.

Unfortunately the Chinese barrage on our right flank did not lift in conjunction with our own, as had been pre-arranged and our right company (“C” Company) suffered severely. CAPT A J H PLATTEN MC, commanding this company, realised that if the men delayed their advance, the barrage would be lost and the success of the operation endangered. Therefore, regardless of loss, he kept his men close to their own barrage and carried them through to their final objective and thus cleared the way for the 10th Battalion Essex Regiment to pass through and form up under their protective barrage.

Meanwhile the remainder of the battalion were pushing on to their respective objectives  - the BLUE DOTTED LINE (in the original document this refers to an attached map  - MMP06)

At 7.20am CAPT R E BECKERSON MC commanding “D Company, (right centre company) sent a message timed 6.50 am reporting that the BREWET was in our hands and that two posts had been established on the SPRIET ROAD 100 yards ahead. This message was received at 7.20 and reported by wire to Brigade at 7.25 am under FQR.11.At about this time an F.O.O reported that he could see small parties of our men moving about the BLUE DOTTED LINE (The final objective of the battalion)

Our left company (“B” Company under Captain H V E BYRNE) advancing well up behind its barrage met with some slight opposition at REQUETE FARM: this opposition was however rapidly dealt with and the company pushed on. After passing REQUETE FARM, the company began to incline too much to the right. This was noticed by 2nd Lt F G SYMONDS who at once hastened to put the men on their correct alignment again. At this moment however this gallant officer was was unfortunately killed by a German shell. The company then pushed on to HELLES HOUSE and the concrete emplacement N E of it. Here “B” Company met with considerable opposition from 2 light machine guns and a party of enemy bombers. This second obstacle was soon successfully overcome and yielded 1 Officer and 25 men as prisoners. 11 wounded Germans were afterwards found in a concrete emplacement there. On reaching it final objective “B” Company began to consolidate and touch was gained with “A” Company (Left Centre company) on its right, who had also successfully gained their final objective.

Through out the advance a certain amount of opposition was met from occupied pill-boxes but so close did our men follow their barrage that they had surrounded these before many of the enemy had time to get out of them and the occupants were either killed or captured while still inside.

The 18 pounder barrage was good and the lifts could be easily observed by our men, but near the brewery there was a stationary barrage of our own 4.5 howitzers which did not lift as the 18 pounders passed and our two centre companies had considerable casualties whilst following the 18 pounder barrage through this.

“Mopping up” was carried on expeditiously under the leadership of Company Commanders and when the final objective was reached posts were pushed forward to clear the way for and give every assistance to, the 10th Bn Essex Regt which was to pass through and capture a further objective.

Along the whole of our front, Companies carried on with consolidation and each company got in touch on either flank.

Following the pre-arranged plan of re-organisation, a message was sent forward from Bn H Q that as soon as the 10th Essex had moved to the attack on the 2nd objective, “D” Company were to take over “C” Companys front, (right company) and the latter were to move to a position west of REQUETE FARM in support of “B” Company (Left Coy). These movements were reported completed at about 9.30am. When “C” Company arrived in its new area it suffered heavily from enemy shell fire. It left its former position 36 men strong but was soon reduced to 14 men.

At about 10.30 am the OC 10th Essex Regiment requested the CO if possible to take over the front on the HELLES HOUSE - NOBLE FARM - SPRIET ROAD, as owing to casualties he required some men to hold his line south of the SPRIET ROAD. (8th Norfolks had previously been ordered by Brigade to do this at dusk).

The OC, 8th Norfolks, however ordered O C’s “B” and “D” companies to do this as soon as possible, This movement was reported completed by 3pm. With the exception of one post on the SPRIET ROAD, which 10th Essex continued to hold as “D” Company had not sufficient left to do so. From this time onwards our front line was heavily shelled by the enemy with 77mm and 10.5 cm hows: the fire being directed by hostile aeroplanes flying at a height of about 500 feet from which height the positions of our men could easily be observed. None of our aeroplanes were in the air in the neighbourhood at this time.

The battalion was relieved the same night by the 12th Battalion Middlesex Regiment. Relief was reported complete to Brigade by 1.21am October 23rd and the Battalion, with the exception of “A” Company, moved into bivouacs at CANE TRENCH. “A” company moved to trenches in the vicinity of PHEASANT FARM, rejoining the Battalion at CANE TRENCH at 9 am.

It was estimated that the battalion captured 1 Officer and 81 other ranks and three machine guns, but as the area behind the front line was heavily shelled it is not known the number that actually reached the Divisional P-O-W cage.

The following casualties were incurred during this action:-
Lieutenant Robert Stuart Mark INCE MC killed
2nd Lieutenant Frederick George SYMONDS killed
2nd Lieutenant Alfred Morgan THORNLEY   Wounded
2nd Lieutenant Frank Godwin Free PLATTEN Wounded
2nd Lieutenant Godfrey Palgrave BROWN Wounded (Slightly - at duty)

Other ranks
Killed…………….32
Wounded ………..155
Missing…………..39

Another appendix in the 8th Battalion Norfolk Regiment War Diary for October 1917 is this map covering the 22nd October 1917.

Image courtesy The National Archive.

Cheers,
Peter

[Ivor Anderson]

6 hours ago, PRC said:

The MM Card in the National Archive does show 10th Battalion, Essex Regiment. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6159445

5 hours ago, kenf48 said:

The awards were for an action which occurred on the 22nd October when the Battalion was ordered to attack, capture and consolidate the Brewery in the town of Poelcappelle and any other parts of the town still occupied by the Germans.

The LG of 23 Feb 1918 lists awards for Passchendaele Ridge Oct/Nov 1917, and some early Cambrai awards (Bate & Williamson).  Great WD find by Ken!

That LG has a schedule no. range 140K to 144K. Fisher's MM is an early no. for that LG. 22nd October would be the major action warranting so many MMs. NA image:

Edited 11 December , 2023 by Ivor Anderson

[Ivor Anderson]

Looking at the MC & DCM citations in the LG (see the WD list) will give you a sense of what his MM was awarded for:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30601/supplement/3857 

Edited 11 December , 2023 by Ivor Anderson
Additional Info

[MegJ]

9 hours ago, kenf48 said:

He is listed in the war diary of the 10th Bn Essex Regiment at the end of November 1917  amongst several officers and men granted awards:

Image WO95/2038/1-5 Courtesy of Ancestry

The awards were for an action which occurred on the 22nd October when the Battalion was ordered to attack, capture and consolidate the Brewery in the town of Poelcappelle and any other parts of the town still occupied by the Germans.  A phase of the Third Battle of Ypres or (incorrectly for the purists) passed into folklore as Passchendaele.

There is an extensive narrative account of the action in the war diary. It mentions by name some of the officers and men shown on the above list. Unfortunately Pte Fisher is not mentioned.  Briefly, at Zero hour at 5.35a.m. it was raining, there was mud on the approach and many became casualties  as the Battalion was shelled when forming up.  In spite of these difficulties and poor visibility the Battalion achieved its initial objectives by 8 a.m. and continued to fight, the Germans evacuated the village and it was secured. At about 4.30pm the enemy launched a counter attack which was fought off.  The battalion was relieved in the evening but had paid a heavy price in casualties for their success.

The citations for the MC (officers) and DCM listed have survived but as noted above those for the MM have not.  It is always worth looking at the higher level war diaries i.e. Brigade and Division for context and correspondence.

 

 

Thank you so much Ken! I’ve managed to find this in the war diary now and have been giving it a read. Fantastic to have this level of detail about what he was involved in.

Thank you once again 

Megan

[MegJ]

8 hours ago, PRC said:

53 Bde attacked with 8th Bn, Norfolk Regt followed by 10th Bn, Essex Regt. Their objective was the Brewery. At the same time as the advance began the Brigade launched a Chinese attack to distract German attention away from the real one. The Norfolks took the Brewery by 7.30 am and then the Essex advanced through them taking Noble’s Farm and Meunier House. They paused while a short barrage fell on Tracas Farm and then occupied it.

If it's of any interest \ context, heres the appendix from the 8th Battalion Norfolks Regiments War Diary describing the action.

Short narrative of the part played by the 8th (Service) Battalion, The Norfolk Regiment during the Poelcappelle operations on the 22nd October 1917.

On the afternoon of the 20th, the Battalion arrived at CANE TRENCH and here bivouacked for the night. The same evening 2nd Lieut. H J CHAPMAN together with the battalion scouts went forward to our forming up area and laid the preliminary guiding wires.

By 12 noon on the 21st October, all battle stores had been issued and all plans completed. At 4 pm 2Lieut H J CHAPMAN went forward with platoon guides and markers to lay out the forming up tapes. At about 7 pm all Company Commanders together with Battalion Headquarters went along to reconnoitre the assembly area and meet the Battalion when it arrived. The first company moved off towards  the line at 8.15pm, and the remaining companies followed at intervals of 15 minutes.

At 2 am a wire was sent to Brigade (FQR.10) informing them that the Battalion was in battle position.

Companies sustained remarkably few casualties during the forming up period.

The ground was a muddy desolation of shell holes and to make matters worse a light drizzle set in. Throughout the wait for zero in the assembly position, the battalion was intermittently shelled.

Our right company, (“C” Company), found that its forming up ground was nothing but a swamp and a few minutes before zero moved forward about 100 yards to more solid ground.

The barrage of the Division on our left commenced 3 minutes before zero, but punctually at 5.35am (Zero hour), when it was dusk and with rain falling, our barrage opened. The half light of dawn and the ground mist made it impossible for our men to see more than 200 yards in front of them. Our men advanced with the barrage, keeping in close touch with it as it lifted.

Unfortunately the Chinese barrage on our right flank did not lift in conjunction with our own, as had been pre-arranged and our right company (“C” Company) suffered severely. CAPT A J H PLATTEN MC, commanding this company, realised that if the men delayed their advance, the barrage would be lost and the success of the operation endangered. Therefore, regardless of loss, he kept his men close to their own barrage and carried them through to their final objective and thus cleared the way for the 10th Battalion Essex Regiment to pass through and form up under their protective barrage.

Meanwhile the remainder of the battalion were pushing on to their respective objectives  - the BLUE DOTTED LINE (in the original document this refers to an attached map  - MMP06)

At 7.20am CAPT R E BECKERSON MC commanding “D Company, (right centre company) sent a message timed 6.50 am reporting that the BREWET was in our hands and that two posts had been established on the SPRIET ROAD 100 yards ahead. This message was received at 7.20 and reported by wire to Brigade at 7.25 am under FQR.11.At about this time an F.O.O reported that he could see small parties of our men moving about the BLUE DOTTED LINE (The final objective of the battalion)

Our left company (“B” Company under Captain H V E BYRNE) advancing well up behind its barrage met with some slight opposition at REQUETE FARM: this opposition was however rapidly dealt with and the company pushed on. After passing REQUETE FARM, the company began to incline too much to the right. This was noticed by 2nd Lt F G SYMONDS who at once hastened to put the men on their correct alignment again. At this moment however this gallant officer was was unfortunately killed by a German shell. The company then pushed on to HELLES HOUSE and the concrete emplacement N E of it. Here “B” Company met with considerable opposition from 2 light machine guns and a party of enemy bombers. This second obstacle was soon successfully overcome and yielded 1 Officer and 25 men as prisoners. 11 wounded Germans were afterwards found in a concrete emplacement there. On reaching it final objective “B” Company began to consolidate and touch was gained with “A” Company (Left Centre company) on its right, who had also successfully gained their final objective.

Through out the advance a certain amount of opposition was met from occupied pill-boxes but so close did our men follow their barrage that they had surrounded these before many of the enemy had time to get out of them and the occupants were either killed or captured while still inside.

The 18 pounder barrage was good and the lifts could be easily observed by our men, but near the brewery there was a stationary barrage of our own 4.5 howitzers which did not lift as the 18 pounders passed and our two centre companies had considerable casualties whilst following the 18 pounder barrage through this.

“Mopping up” was carried on expeditiously under the leadership of Company Commanders and when the final objective was reached posts were pushed forward to clear the way for and give every assistance to, the 10th Bn Essex Regt which was to pass through and capture a further objective.

Along the whole of our front, Companies carried on with consolidation and each company got in touch on either flank.

Following the pre-arranged plan of re-organisation, a message was sent forward from Bn H Q that as soon as the 10th Essex had moved to the attack on the 2nd objective, “D” Company were to take over “C” Companys front, (right company) and the latter were to move to a position west of REQUETE FARM in support of “B” Company (Left Coy). These movements were reported completed at about 9.30am. When “C” Company arrived in its new area it suffered heavily from enemy shell fire. It left its former position 36 men strong but was soon reduced to 14 men.

At about 10.30 am the OC 10th Essex Regiment requested the CO if possible to take over the front on the HELLES HOUSE - NOBLE FARM - SPRIET ROAD, as owing to casualties he required some men to hold his line south of the SPRIET ROAD. (8th Norfolks had previously been ordered by Brigade to do this at dusk).

The OC, 8th Norfolks, however ordered O C’s “B” and “D” companies to do this as soon as possible, This movement was reported completed by 3pm. With the exception of one post on the SPRIET ROAD, which 10th Essex continued to hold as “D” Company had not sufficient left to do so. From this time onwards our front line was heavily shelled by the enemy with 77mm and 10.5 cm hows: the fire being directed by hostile aeroplanes flying at a height of about 500 feet from which height the positions of our men could easily be observed. None of our aeroplanes were in the air in the neighbourhood at this time.

The battalion was relieved the same night by the 12th Battalion Middlesex Regiment. Relief was reported complete to Brigade by 1.21am October 23rd and the Battalion, with the exception of “A” Company, moved into bivouacs at CANE TRENCH. “A” company moved to trenches in the vicinity of PHEASANT FARM, rejoining the Battalion at CANE TRENCH at 9 am.

It was estimated that the battalion captured 1 Officer and 81 other ranks and three machine guns, but as the area behind the front line was heavily shelled it is not known the number that actually reached the Divisional P-O-W cage.

The following casualties were incurred during this action:-
Lieutenant Robert Stuart Mark INCE MC killed
2nd Lieutenant Frederick George SYMONDS killed
2nd Lieutenant Alfred Morgan THORNLEY   Wounded
2nd Lieutenant Frank Godwin Free PLATTEN Wounded
2nd Lieutenant Godfrey Palgrave BROWN Wounded (Slightly - at duty)

Other ranks
Killed…………….32
Wounded ………..155
Missing…………..39

Another appendix in the 8th Battalion Norfolk Regiment War Diary for October 1917 is this map covering the 22nd October 1917.

Image courtesy The National Archive.

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you so much Peter! It’s great to have a second account and to have the map.

Thanks again!

Megan

[MegJ]

3 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

Looking at the MC & DCM citations in the LG (see the WD list) will give you a sense of what his MM was awarded for:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30601/supplement/3857 

Thank you very much Ivor. Reading them does give a sense of what he may have done.

Thanks again

Megan

[PRC]

By co-incidence I was just typing up some old Norfolk archive visit notes and came across this report in the edition of the Norwich Mercury dated 22nd December 1917. The citation may be similar to that for other members of the 10th Battalion like John William Fisher for their action on this day.

BRANDON MAN WINS THE MILITARY MEDAL

It is with pleasure the residents of Brandon received the news of another young man having been awarded the Military Medal. The parchment reads as follows:- “Signaller Leonard Gostling, Essex Regiment, has been awarded the Miltary Medal for gallant conduct on the field and devotion to duty on October 22nd, 1917, east of Poelcappelle.”

That in turn reminded me that when I was looking at my Norfolk Regiment notes last night I came across a quote "The triumphant Essex and Norfolks...........tramped back to hear the whole division - and General Maxse - singing their praise. " No doubt a good reason for the award of so many gallantry medals, some possibly being allocated by the drawing of lots rather than for a specific act.

Unfortunately my source for the quote was now a deadlink on the internet, but with a bit of thinking and searching I've turned it up on page 244 of "The 18th Division in the Great War" by Captain G.H.F. Nichols, published in 1922. Indeed pages 242 to the map opposite page 246 may be of interest.

Page 242.

Page 243 & 244.

Map opposite page 246.

The unarmed C.S.M referred to in the DCM citation for Private C.E. Andrews sounds like a variation on the narrative of the unarmed patrol of Regimental Sergeant Major Bishalk and Seregant Major Dupree referred to across pages 243 & 244.

Images courtesy https://archive.org/details/18thdivision-greatwar/page/243/mode/2up?q=Poelcapelle

Cheers,
Peter

[MegJ]

5 hours ago, PRC said:

By co-incidence I was just typing up some old Norfolk archive visit notes and came across this report in the edition of the Norwich Mercury dated 22nd December 1917. The citation may be similar to that for other members of the 10th Battalion like John William Fisher for their action on this day.

BRANDON MAN WINS THE MILITARY MEDAL

It is with pleasure the residents of Brandon received the news of another young man having been awarded the Military Medal. The parchment reads as follows:- “Signaller Leonard Gostling, Essex Regiment, has been awarded the Miltary Medal for gallant conduct on the field and devotion to duty on October 22nd, 1917, east of Poelcappelle.”

That in turn reminded me that when I was looking at my Norfolk Regiment notes last night I came across a quote "The triumphant Essex and Norfolks...........tramped back to hear the whole division - and General Maxse - singing their praise. " No doubt a good reason for the award of so many gallantry medals, some possibly being allocated by the drawing of lots rather than for a specific act.

Unfortunately my source for the quote was now a deadlink on the internet, but with a bit of thinking and searching I've turned it up on page 244 of "The 18th Division in the Great War" by Captain G.H.F. Nichols, published in 1922. Indeed pages 242 to the map opposite page 246 may be of interest.

Page 242.

Page 243 & 244.

Map opposite page 246.

The unarmed C.S.M referred to in the DCM citation for Private C.E. Andrews sounds like a variation on the narrative of the unarmed patrol of Regimental Sergeant Major Bishalk and Seregant Major Dupree referred to across pages 243 & 244.

Images courtesy https://archive.org/details/18thdivision-greatwar/page/243/mode/2up?q=Poelcapelle

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you so much Peter! Very interesting and sheds a lot of light on what he went through. Could you possibly explain what you meant when you said about some medals being allocated with the drawing of lots rather than specific acts? Complete military history novice here I’m afraid! 
 

Thanks again 

 

Megan 

[PRC]

37 minutes ago, MegJ said:

Could you possibly explain what you meant when you said about some medals being allocated with the drawing of lots rather than specific acts?

With so many brave and gallant acts being carried out, and so many individuals going above and beyond what could be expected of them, then probably a much larger number of gallantry awards could have been made for the action on that day. Unfortunately there were constraints on how many could be awarded on the authority of the battalion and brigade commanders and then rubber stamped all the way to the War Office, (for the Military Medal), and the Divisional, Corps and Army Commanders for the higher awards. Even after taking into account the need for the deed \ behaviour to have been witnessed by an officer, and as few of the gallantry medals could be awarded "posthumously", for the soldier to have survived the action for which he was being put forward for a medal, (note he didn't still need to be alive when the award was confirmed, and sadly you will see lists of awards in the London Gazette with the note subsequently killed \ died).

So with more candidates than medals to award there then has to be put in place some system to ration the awards. Sometimes this was done by drawing lots for just those involved, but more often it would be the whole unit. Because it was luck of the draw an individual who had clearly performed an act of valour might get nothing, while the man watering the officers horses in the transport line might get an MM. I have several times over the years come across bulky surviving service records for both men of the British Army and of the forces of the Empire, where the size relates to the lengthy correspondence from an individual as to why they received a gallantry award, and the subsequent minutes and files that went the rounds to try and get to the bottom of it. Almost inevitably they end with a letter that basically says no-one knows! I suspect those are examples of where the bravery award is actually for the whole unit, and repesentative individuals have been chosen by the drawing of lots to actually received the medals.

Cheers,
Peter

[MegJ]

On 12/12/2023 at 01:30, PRC said:

With so many brave and gallant acts being carried out, and so many individuals going above and beyond what could be expected of them, then probably a much larger number of gallantry awards could have been made for the action on that day. Unfortunately there were constraints on how many could be awarded on the authority of the battalion and brigade commanders and then rubber stamped all the way to the War Office, (for the Military Medal), and the Divisional, Corps and Army Commanders for the higher awards. Even after taking into account the need for the deed \ behaviour to have been witnessed by an officer, and as few of the gallantry medals could be awarded "posthumously", for the soldier to have survived the action for which he was being put forward for a medal, (note he didn't still need to be alive when the award was confirmed, and sadly you will see lists of awards in the London Gazette with the note subsequently killed \ died).

So with more candidates than medals to award there then has to be put in place some system to ration the awards. Sometimes this was done by drawing lots for just those involved, but more often it would be the whole unit. Because it was luck of the draw an individual who had clearly performed an act of valour might get nothing, while the man watering the officers horses in the transport line might get an MM. I have several times over the years come across bulky surviving service records for both men of the British Army and of the forces of the Empire, where the size relates to the lengthy correspondence from an individual as to why they received a gallantry award, and the subsequent minutes and files that went the rounds to try and get to the bottom of it. Almost inevitably they end with a letter that basically says no-one knows! I suspect those are examples of where the bravery award is actually for the whole unit, and repesentative individuals have been chosen by the drawing of lots to actually received the medals.

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you so much Peter for such a detailed explanation.

[MegJ]

Hi everyone,

Thank you so much for all your help. I’ve been able to carry out some more research and have tracked down his obituary. In it it does mention the military medal but also says that he was mentioned in despatches. I’ve found a selection of these on the gazette website but was wondering if anyone knew if there was another source or quicker way of finding him or if I simply need to go through each one that may be relevant.

Thank you again!

[Chris_Baker]

Sorry if I have missed that you already knew this, but he was named as wounded in the War Office casualty list issued on 15 December 1917.

[FROGSMILE]

I just wanted to say how much I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread and to congratulate all the contributors for such detailed information laid out in an exemplary manner.  Kudos all round gentlemen.

Edited 19 December , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[MegJ]

1 hour ago, Chris_Baker said:

Sorry if I have missed that you already knew this, but he was named as wounded in the War Office casualty list issued on 15 December 1917.

Hi Chris,

Thank you very much for this. I was aware he was wounded yes, but was unsure of the date so thank you so much for this. I’ve now been able to locate it from the National Library of Scotland.

Many thanks once again

Megan

33 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I just wanted to say how much I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread and to congratulate all the contributors for such detailed information laid out in an exemplary manner.  Kudos all round gentlemen.

I’m honestly so grateful to all who have helped me. My Grandad is going to be so pleased to finally learn all this about his father ! 

[Chris_Baker]

Don't forget that a name usually appeared in the casualty list around a month after he was wounded.