Dating or location evidence please?

[CorporalPunishment]

41 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Good.

And has there ever been a rail line at the bottom of the embankment?

No there hasn't but then I don't see a railway line in the image in the opening post either.      Pete.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

No there hasn't but then I don't see a railway line in the image in the opening post either.      Pete.

It's clearly visible as are  the chairs that fix the rail to the sleepers as I explained upthread. The rail and chairs are visible at thigh level for each soldier.

And the sleepers are also visible.

I'm away from my computer at the moment, but I'll outline them on the image later.

Edited 28 October , 2023 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[CorporalPunishment]

2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

It's clearly visible as are  the chairs that fix the rail to the sleepers as I explained upthread. The rail and chairs are visible at thigh level for each soldier.

And the sleepers are also visible.

I'm away from my computer at the moment, but I'll outline them on the image later.

I don't agree with the railway idea, I see no sleepers anywhere and there is clearly no opposite track. Whatever gives you the railway track idea is beyond my comprehension. Let's agree to disagree on this one.     Pete.

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, CorporalPunishment said:

Let's agree to disagree on this one.

Not a problem.
It is however, as my diagram shows, as clear as day. This is the area between the middle and right man.

Edit, on looking closer, I think the near rail is obscured by weeds, and the nearest ends of the sleepers are also visible

 

Edited 28 October , 2023 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

[steve fuller]

On 28/10/2023 at 00:47, CorporalPunishment said:

The Tring Reservoirs, all four of them, date back to the late Victorian era. Two of them, Wilstone and Startops, have high embankments on two sides and always have had. I know them well being a regular visitor and amateur ornithologist and living just ten miles away at Dunstable.     Pete.

I was a Linslade boy and was dragged there to watch birds, although I didn't have much of a clue what i was doing so just ticked them off from my book as I saw them. Good fun though.

[steve fuller]

There seems to be a faint pattern in the area the sleepers and gravel would be, which seem to be straight line running at 90 degrees from the 'rail'?

Or is it my eyes playing tricks?

Was water transported from reservoirs to urban areas by rail at the time maybe?

I am waiting for a higher res' image from my pal, which may help.

[FROGSMILE]

40 minutes ago, steve fuller said:

There seems to be a faint pattern in the area the sleepers and gravel would be, which seem to be straight line running at 90 degrees from the 'rail'?

Or is it my eyes playing tricks?

Was water transported from reservoirs to urban areas by rail at the time maybe?

I am waiting for a higher res' image from my pal, which may help.

Guarding railway lines was a very common task early in the war when invasion was considered.  The extent of the activity became so great that the lines seem to have been graded in significance, as they were guarded by a mixed force of supernumerary TF companies (later RDC protection companies), VTC units, and even Boy Scouts!

Edited 30 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[steve fuller]

46 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Guarding railway lines was a very common task early in the war when invasion was considered.  The extent of the activity became so great that the lines seem to have been graded in significance, as they were guarded by a mixed force of supernumerary TF companies (later RDC protection companies), VTC units, and even Boy Scouts!

I've seen a fair few articles in county newspapers about that very subject. One of the Bedfordshire Regiment's TF soldiers was killed in 1914 by a train while guarding a line as they were training for overseas service.

[6RRF]

1 hour ago, steve fuller said:

There seems to be a faint pattern in the area the sleepers and gravel would be, which seem to be straight line running at 90 degrees from the 'rail'?

Or is it my eyes playing tricks?

Was water transported from reservoirs to urban areas by rail at the time maybe?

 

Water wasn't transported by rail, but light railways were usually laid by the contractors building the reservoirs 

[steve fuller]

2 hours ago, 6RRF said:

Water wasn't transported by rail, but light railways were usually laid by the contractors building the reservoirs 

Good info thanks 6RRF.

Edited 30 October , 2023 by steve fuller
typo

[CorporalPunishment]

5 hours ago, steve fuller said:

There seems to be a faint pattern in the area the sleepers and gravel would be, which seem to be straight line running at 90 degrees from the 'rail'?

Or is it my eyes playing tricks?

Was water transported from reservoirs to urban areas by rail at the time maybe?

I am waiting for a higher res' image from my pal, which may help.

In the case of Tring Reservoirs, actually constructed between 1806 and 1817, their sole purpose was to feed the Grand Union Canal so not for domestic use. My original suggestion of a possible link to the photo was simply that but in the words of the great Leadbelly "The Damn Thing Gone Wild".      Pete.

[steve fuller]

1 hour ago, CorporalPunishment said:

In the case of Tring Reservoirs, actually constructed between 1806 and 1817, their sole purpose was to feed the Grand Union Canal so not for domestic use. My original suggestion of a possible link to the photo was simply that but in the words of the great Leadbelly "The Damn Thing Gone Wild".      Pete.

They usually do  

[CorporalPunishment]

23 minutes ago, steve fuller said:

They usually do  

[CorporalPunishment]

5 hours ago, steve fuller said:

I've seen a fair few articles in county newspapers about that very subject. One of the Bedfordshire Regiment's TF soldiers was killed in 1914 by a train while guarding a line as they were training for overseas service.

Steve, where did the accident occur?.        Pete.

[steve fuller]

9 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said:

Steve, where did the accident occur?.        Pete.

Although I don't have my research easily to hand, I recorded on the site:

On Thursday 27 August 1914 Private 3388 Benjamin Headley Seabrook was guarding a Great Eastern railway bridge at Manningtree when, at 8.30 a.m. he was killed by an express train

 

Edited 30 October , 2023 by steve fuller

[CorporalPunishment]

11 minutes ago, steve fuller said:

Although I don't have my research easily to hand, I recorded on the site:

On Thursday 27 August 1914 Private 3388 Benjamin Headley Seabrook was guarding a Great Eastern railway bridge at Manningtree when, at 8.30 a.m. he was killed by an express train

 

He was a Dunstable lad, just 18 years old, he lies in West Street Cemetery, Dunstable. I read somewhere years ago that he died after being kicked by a horse but I can't remember where I read it. It would seem someone got it wrong.     Pete.

[steve fuller]

4 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said:

He was a Dunstable lad, just 18 years old, he lies in West Street Cemetery, Dunstable. I read somewhere years ago that he died after being kicked by a horse but I can't remember where I read it. It would seem someone got it wrong.     Pete.

The Beds Advertiser and Luton Times recorded it 4/9/1914:

[CorporalPunishment]

23 minutes ago, steve fuller said:

The Beds Advertiser and Luton Times recorded it 4/9/1914:

Thanks for that Steve. Thinking back I seem to recall that the bit about him being kicked by a horse could have been in SDGW but clearly it was wrong.       Pete.

[steve fuller]

6 minutes ago, CorporalPunishment said:

Thanks for that Steve. Thinking back I seem to recall that the bit about him being kicked by a horse could have been in SDGW but clearly it was wrong.       Pete.

Pleasure Pete  

[steve fuller]

Back to the Stars on his sleeve if I may?

Remarkably, service records survive for this chap.

From 1888 to 1901 he was with the colours (Regulars, not TF or AR). 2 Good Conduct Pays on his record.

From Feb 1915 to March 1919 he was on Home Service, being 45 when rejoining the National Reserve. Prior service refers to Regulars but no TF whatsoever. Initially 5th Bedfordshires (TF) Supply Depot, then transferred to the RDC. 

With no TF / Volunteer service before Feb 1915 and not enough time to hit 5 Annual returns, could the star(s) relate to his GC Pay instead?

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, steve fuller said:

Back to the Stars on his sleeve if I may?

Remarkably, service records survive for this chap.

From 1888 to 1901 he was with the colours (Regulars, not TF or AR). 2 Good Conduct Pays on his record.

From Feb 1915 to March 1919 he was on Home Service, being 45 when rejoining the National Reserve. Prior service refers to Regulars but no TF whatsoever. Initially 5th Bedfordshires (TF) Supply Depot, then transferred to the RDC. 

With no TF / Volunteer service before Feb 1915 and not enough time to hit 5 Annual returns, could the star(s) relate to his GC Pay instead?

No, the stars shown are of a distinct ‘efficiency’ type and worn initially only by the old Volunteer Force, with its county based Rifle Volunteer Corps (RVC) organised in administrative battalions, and then after July 1881 as ‘Volunteer Battalions’ of regular army infantry regiments, although there was a period of grace so that some units did not formally take up the latter status until late in the 1880s.  The stars were subsequently continued by the Territorial Force from 1908.

As it seems unlikely that the soldier concerned would be wearing the stars spuriously (3 stars equate to 12-years of being returned annually as an efficient attendee at drills [training sessions]**), then the other possibility is that the man has been misidentified.

**this under the first TF regulations of 1908 that awarded one star per every 4-years.

Edited 31 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[steve fuller]

7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

No, the stars shown are of a distinct ‘efficiency’ type and worn initially only by the old Volunteer Force, with its county based Rifle Volunteer Corps (RVC) organised in administrative battalions, and then after July 1881 as ‘Volunteer Battalions’ of regular army infantry regiments, although there was a period of grace so that some units did not formally take up the latter status until late in the 1880s.  They were subsequently continued by the Territorial Force from 1908.

As it seems unlikely that the soldier concerned would be wearing the stars spuriously (3 stars equate to 12-years of being returned annually as an efficient attendee at drills [training sessions]**), then the other possibility is that the man has been misidentified.

**this under the first TF regulations of 1908 that awarded one star per every 4-years.

Thanks again Frogsmile, worth checking. 

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, steve fuller said:

Thanks again Frogsmile, worth checking. 

The supplementary companies were a part of the TF and by the end of the war all the auxiliary units less the Special Reserve were for convenience of the War Office being administered by the TF.

The TA that was formed in 1921 continued to have regulations governing efficiency stars as late as 1936, but they had lost their popularity and few were seen.  The stars were finally abolished from the supply chain in the mid-1950s.