1/1 Pembroke Yeomanry & 24th Welsh Regiment - A Collection of Bits & Pieces

[Alan24]

This week a work colleague, who I have known for 25 years, produced out of the blue some artefacts belonging to a long lost relative.  

Knowing nothing about the items, my colleague asked me to take a look.

The items included a Brodie helmet, VM BWM & TFWM, shoulder titles, cap badges, discharge documents, a bible with names of men killed which I have attributed to the 3rd Battle of Gaza, overseas service stripes. 

The items belonged to Private 2236 Thomas Rees from St. Clears, Carmarthenshire and had served in the Pembroke Yeomanry and 24th Welsh Regiment.

Included below is the 'Broken Spur' of the 74th (yeomanry) Division.

The Welsh shoulder titles suggest pre 1920 by their spelling and I have no reason to suspect that anything here is not genuine Great War period. The printed titles look to be in amazing condition. 

 

[Alan24]

One fascinating item in the collection is a pair of Stirrups marked on the under side 'T. REES  A. P.I.Y'

[Thomas Rees A Squadron Pembroke Imperial Yeomanry]

Thomas joined the Yeomanry on 7th August 1914 - his day job was a Horse Breaker. He held the TFWM. As he was not serving with the TF on 5th Aug 1914 he could have only qualified for the decoration by virtue of having served 4 years in the TF prior to 5th Aug 1914 and re-joined by 30 Sept 1914.

Given that he has marked the stirrups P.I.Y. I can only suggest that he joined in 1906 or 1907 when he was 17 or 18 years old and then served in the PY(TF) between 1908 and 1912. 

These stirrups must have been marked by him in 1906/7.

What I don't know is if he took these to war in Egypt & Palestine. 

 

Edited 14 October , 2023 by Alan24

[Alan24]

The TFWM is particularly sort after being named to the Pembroke Yeomanry. 

The cap badges relate to the Pembroke Yeomanry with their Fishguard battle honour. Two types of construction here. 

I was reminded of the storey of the Welsh women and the 1797 French invasion when researching these cap badges. 

Did the 24th Welsh use the Fishguard cap badge or the standard Welsh cap badge? Maybe @FROGSMILE will know. 

 

Edited 14 October , 2023 by Alan24

[max7474]

From my research into the yeomanry re-roled into infantry the majority of the Yeomanry regiments who re-roled as a battalion retained their old Yeomanry cap badges although new recruits were issued the infantry cap badges.  It is quite common to see group photos with both yeomanry and infantry badges intermingled.

However when yeomanry regiments were broken up and troopers sent as reinforcements, then they seem to have re-badged.

There are no set rules here: for example I have yet to find a F&F yeomanry trooper wearing anything other than the Black watch hackle after they re-roled.

So to answer the question the 24th Welsh probably wore both Welsh badges and Yeomanry depending on whether the wearer was an original yeoman or not.

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, Alan24 said:

The TFWM is particularly sort after being named to the Pembroke Yeomanry. 

The cap badges relate to the Pembroke Yeomanry with their Fishguard battle honour. Two types of construction here. 

I was reminded of the storey of the Welsh women and the 1797 French invasion when researching these cap badges. 

Did the 24th Welsh use the Fishguard cap badge or the standard Welsh cap badge? Maybe @FROGSMILE will know. 

 

Thank you Alan for posting this amazing array of surviving memorabilia and insignia that has all the more impact given its provenance with an individual Territorial soldier.

As regards the badges worn by Yeomanry converted temporarily to infantry, I agree in general with the comments by Max and, like him, have seen some photos where mixed insignia is discernible, but I would add the caveat that given the large number of units converted (sufficient to form two infantry divisions) I cannot say that every single unit had the same attitude to which cap badge was worn.  The fact that steel helmets were worn when in the line would have allowed for a degree of prevarication that may, or may not, have endured.

Edited 14 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[max7474]

If it not too much trouble could you post photos of the back of the cap badges as they are excellent reference pieces.

[Alan24]

2 hours ago, max7474 said:

If it not too much trouble could you post photos of the back of the cap badges as they are excellent reference pieces.

No problem, I'll sort it out in the morning when the light is better. 

Thanks for the comments from yourself & Frogsmile.

[Andrew Upton]

13 hours ago, Alan24 said:

...The items included a Brodie helmet...

 

3 hours ago, Alan24 said:

No problem, I'll sort it out in the morning when the light is better. 

Thanks for the comments from yourself & Frogsmile.

If possible I for one would also love to see some pictures of the helmet if possible, given the quality of the grouping.

[Alan24]

8 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

 

If possible I for one would also love to see some pictures of the helmet if possible, given the quality of the grouping.

Andrew, yes of course. The helmet is the one thing that I left with my colleague - all the other items are currently in my possession (although sadly not in my ownership!)

I've asked him to bring it into the office next week which he will do, I may not see him for a few days but hope to get the photos for you during the week.

I did look for a date under the rim but couldn't see one. The condition is quite well used and is missing the liner and strap although the strap fixings are there. There is also a separate beading around the edge of the rim.

There are no markings e.g. Divisional insignia. 

[Alan24]

A poignant item in the collection is this Book of Common Prayer sent out to Palestine from the congregation of St. Clears Parish Church Dec 1917.

 Private T. Rees

With best wishes for Christmas & New Yaer from the congregation of St. Clears Parish Church.

Dec 1917

J. Maurice James – Vicar.

Psalms 1.23.91

  

In the back of the book he has written the following;

Received at Emmaus near Jerusalem

And

Tom Rees

B Coy.

Pembroke Yeo.

24^th Batt. Welsh Regiment

Transport Section

Inside the front cover are the names of four ‘Pals’ killed during the 3^rd Battle of Gaza.

F. Rees Died of wounds Nov 7 1917

Pte. Bramfield killed Oct 31^st 1917

Dai Sear killed Nov 6^th 1917

Moses Jones Killed Nov 6^th 1917

 

MOSES JONES cwgc moses-jones

Service Number: 320224

24th (Pembroke and Glamorgan Yeomanry) Bn., Welsh Regiment who died on 06 November 1917

DAVID CHARLES SAER cwgc david-charles-saer

Service Number: 320122

24th Bn., Welsh Regiment who died on 06 November 1917 Age 34

Son of Phebe Saer of Capelmair Villa, St. Clears, Carmarthenshire, and the late Charles Saer

 

JAMES FREDERICK REES cwgc james-frederick-rees

Service Number: 320088

24th Bn., Welsh Regiment who died on 06 November 1917 Age 23

Son of George and Mary Ann Rees, of 3, Frogmore Terrace, Tenby.

SYDNEY ERNEST BRANFIELD cwgc sydney-ernest-branfield

Service Number: 320111

24th Bn., Welsh Regiment who died on 31 October 1917 Age 32

Son of the late Mr. and Mrs. Branfield.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 15 October , 2023 by Alan24

[Alan24]

16 hours ago, max7474 said:

If it not too much trouble could you post photos of the back of the cap badges as they are excellent reference pieces.

Max, as requested. outdoor lighting is quite harsh today - very sunny.

These four are all the bi-metallic version. 

 

[Alan24]

16 hours ago, max7474 said:

If it not too much trouble could you post photos of the back of the cap badges as they are excellent reference pieces.

These are from the white metal economy version.

[max7474]

I don't think the white metal one is anything to do with economy.  They seem to have been worn pre-war.

I suspect that the  brass scroll ones date from after 1916 when the ACD took over supply of the badge but that is just a suggestion rather than a proven fact.

 

The style of plumes is quite distinctive and the same die was used for making several other regiments' badges.

 

This is a nice pic of it in wear in WW1.

Edited 15 October , 2023 by max7474

[Alan24]

There's more.

Not entirely sure why the calling card shows 1915 and not 1914. I have quite a good book on the Mary Tins so will look at this later. 

He didn't go overseas until March 1916 so received this tin whilst in the UK. 

 

[Alan24]

4 minutes ago, max7474 said:

I don't think the white metal one is anything to do with economy.  They seem to have been worn pre-war.

I suspect that the  brass scroll ones date from after 1916 when the ACD took over supply of the badge but that is just a suggestion rather than a proven fact.

Yes, my mistake, just checking British Army Cap Badges of the First World War by Peter Doyle & Chris Foster "an all-brass economy version was issued in 1916". The second one is clearly not brass. 

I had in my mind White Metal were the cheap versions whereas it seems economy versions were all-brass. 

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, Alan24 said:

Praluis

That says 'Psalms'.

[Alan24]

56 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

That says 'Psalms'.

Thank you, I wasn't sure. I'll correct it.

[Alan24]

On 15/10/2023 at 01:01, Andrew Upton said:

 

If possible I for one would also love to see some pictures of the helmet if possible, given the quality of the grouping.

Andrew, as requested.

[Alan24]

Also coming to light today, from the family, is an actual photo of Thomas Rees pre-war, possibly between 1906 an 1912.

 

[Andrew Upton]

12 hours ago, Alan24 said:

Andrew, as requested.

Thanks Alan, for some reason I'd really hoped it would have a beautiful broken-spur painted on it, or... it looks like it spent most of it's life in the shed or attic compared to the rest of the group 

[Jerry B]

a lovely group, hard to better.

[Alan24]

2 hours ago, Jerry B said:

a lovely group, hard to better.

Thanks for your comments.

Also in the group but not posted here are his Army Forms W5065, Z11 Z18 and Z50 all relating to his discharge class Z in 1919.

The Z50 is interesting in that it is a blank receipt for handing in his Great Coat at any railway station for which he could receive £1. Many soldiers decided to forefit the £1 and keep the Great Coat as it was good value. 

Also present is an ISM (Imperial Service Medal) of the type only issued in 1953/54, to low ranking civil servents, which relates to his work as a postman. 

[Alan24]

On 17/10/2023 at 02:28, Andrew Upton said:

Thanks Alan, for some reason I'd really hoped it would have a beautiful broken-spur painted on it, or... it looks like it spent most of it's life in the shed or attic compared to the rest of the group 

Hi Andrew, reading your comments on the other Brodie thread, can you confirm if this one is WW1 vintage. The lugs do look to be the early type with cropped corners and bent over tabs/split pin rather than rivets. 

Edited 17 December , 2023 by Alan24

[Andrew Upton]

8 hours ago, Alan24 said:

Hi Andrew, reading your comments on the other Brodie thread, can you confirm if this one is WW1 vintage. The lugs do look to be the early type with cropped corners and bent over tabs/split pin rather than rivets. 

Absolutely spot on for a typical mid/late war production WW1 Brodie. Probably more like 1916 as the rim has the kinks in it (the early process of adding a rim to the shell was improved with time and so the kinks eventually disappeared). You just need to be a little careful because the white pad visible is asbestos!

[Alan24]

4 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

Absolutely spot on for a typical mid/late war production WW1 Brodie. Probably more like 1916 as the rim has the kinks in it (the early process of adding a rim to the shell was improved with time and so the kinks eventually disappeared). You just need to be a little careful because the white pad visible is asbestos!

Thank you Andrew, your comments are much appreciated.