P 1908 Haversacks etc

[4thGordons]

I spent a lot of today trying to tidy up after rack collapsed in my collection room so I was reorganizing and storing away recent acquisitions - including several 1908 Pattern haversacks and various other bits and bobs.

First up: a P1908 haversack (modified- with tabs removed) what is intriguing to me about this is the relatively late date of production!

 

Removed tabs

1937 production date

 

Given the modification and late date I think I will use it with a WWII Home Guard setup I am assembling (off topic for this forum I know but I have never absolutely confirmed that the plastic HG badge on the forage cap is actually a badge, some sources describe it as a brooch) Just to keep it on topic the bayonet is a 1916 Pattern 1913.

 

Staying with the P1908 Haversacks - I recently stumbled into a small lot of "Irish" P1908 haversacks - dyed black/dark grey-green. I bought as many as I could (7) sight-unseen in the hope that they were marked and luckily two have a faint Irish FF "sun" stamp. Apart from the colour, these appear identical to late war production 1908 haversacks.

You have to squint to make out the stamps! (it is on the inside of the flap)

I have a black dyed P1903 bandolier and a black dyed 03 pistol holster so I am hoping to assemble some sort of composite set up.

Finally - I also recently found a P1903 "Haversack Other Services" and a Canvas P1903 belt and ammunition pouches so I have the beginnings of a late war P1903 set up: The waterbottle is wrapped because it is crumbling and I needed to protect it for the moment. I need to find a frog for the bayonet

 

 

 

Edited 8 October , 2023 by 4thGordons

[MrEd]

Nice, I wish my collection was big enough to cause a racking collapse 

I am working towards an 03 setup with a web belt also

 

i have an other services haversack I have in my RGA display, it’s undated but of the correct pattern but the two front buckled have Indian markings on them - will post some photos later. No evidence of repair which makes me think it was made with them. It is definitely a British weave rather than Indian.

Edited 8 October , 2023 by MrEd

[battle of loos]

good morning,

here is one small pack find near béthune :

Haversack, Second issue :

maker :

M.W. & S Ltd.  1912

marking :

2 CG 613

/I\ / 15 - 6/14

I guess the markings indicate that they belong to HORNER Edward - 613 - 2nd Coldstream Guards.

defect : The 2 carrying straps as well as the small one have been removed unfortunately 

michel

[peregrinvs]

11 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

First up: a P1908 haversack (modified- with tabs removed) what is intriguing to me about this is the relatively late date of production!

I can beat that - I have a 1942 dated example made in India. There are some pictures of it on Karkeeweb:

http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1908/1908_haversacks.html

[4thGordons]

 

2 hours ago, peregrinvs said:

I can beat that - I have a 1942 dated example made in India. There are some pictures of it on Karkeeweb:

http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1908/1908_haversacks.html

Very nice! I just saw a pair of MECo marked 1940 dated ammunition carriers too!

[MrEd]

3 hours ago, peregrinvs said:

I can beat that - I have a 1942 dated example made in India. There are some pictures of it on Karkeeweb:

http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/1908/1908_haversacks.html

Interesting, the other services pack I have has ‘ca’ n the metal work

[MrEd]

I misremembered

 

my OS haversack has a c^14 and c^11 on the metal work (14 on the 1 inch buckles and 11 on the 2inch buckles). The only other mark is some sort of ink mark on one of the internal flaps. 

 

 

 

Edited 9 October , 2023 by MrEd

[battle of loos]

I have never seen markings on loops of this size coming from the terrain.
I'm going to look at the ones on my Small Pack.
On the large passers-by, I have already seen the number 2 affixed to it.
michel

[MrEd]

5 hours ago, battle of loos said:

I have never seen markings on loops of this size coming from the terrain.
I'm going to look at the ones on my Small Pack.
On the large passers-by, I have already seen the number 2 affixed to it.
michel

Do you know what it could mean? Inspection stamps or manufacturer? 
Could the 11 or the 14 be the year?? (Probably not)

[battle of loos]

I'm all for that kind of information.

[landser]

Bonjour.

voici un Havresack 1915 je ne connais pas ce marquage ( G P )

 

 

[4thGordons]

Je pense que le vôtre est un "Pack 08" (le plus gros sac porté au dos) et ce n'est pas un "Haversack" (plus petit et porté sur le côté). Désolé mais je ne peux pas vous aider avec les marquages

Chris

[landser]

Il y a 34 minutes, 4thGordons a dit :

Je pense que le vôtre est un « Pack 08 » (le plus gros sac porté au dos) et ce n’est pas un « Haversack » (plus petit et porté sur le côté). Désolé mais je ne peux pas vous aider avec les marquages

Chris

Oui c’est le grand pack 08,mais je cherche a identifier les marquages, merci 4ème Gordons.

[landser]

 

Bonjour,personne pour me donner une identification de ces deux lettres ( G.P )???

[battle of loos]

good morning,

for me, these letters are related to the name indicated which seems to be French or even Belgian (later reuse - the French army used Webb as well as US of all times in Indochina)

[landser]

Bonjour.

Bonjour,effectivement j’ai moi meme recu du WEB Anglais mais aussi de fabrication Belge,exclusivement daté WWII ou des années 60 Belge,jamais du WEB WWI car les anneaux d’attache WWI ((première guerre )) ne correspondes pas

 

 

au WEB Belge et au WEB Anglais WWII que nous avions ils sont beaucoup trop grand., le nom que nous pouvons apercevoir en dessous des deux lettres (( G-PAGUET )) sonne plutôt British que Belge ou

 

Francais !!

 

Merci Michel.

 

 

 

 

[battle of loos]

good morning,

the etymology of the name Paguet is French.
As we would say "it's good from home"
Here is the location of this name (source Généanet):

Communes les plus présentes pour le patronyme "PAGUET" :

• Pouilley-les-Vignes, Doubs, France
  (1 189 individus)
• Champagney, Doubs, France
  (840 individus)
• Franois, Doubs, France
  (599 individus)
• Paris, Paris, France
  (329 individus)
• Sauvigney-lès-Pesmes, Haute-Saône, France
  (290 individus)
• Dannemarie-sur-Crète, Doubs, France
  (189 individus)
• Viel-Arcy, Aisne, France
  (163 individus)
• Champvans-les-Moulins, Doubs, France
  (151 individus)
• Venère, Haute-Saône, France
  (150 individus)
• Serre-les-Sapins, Doubs, France
  (132 individus)
• Lyon, Rhône, France
  (121 individus)
• Pelousey, Doubs, France
  (105 individus)

michel

[landser]

 Michel, je connais des Anglais dons le nom sont d’origine Francais comme par exemple l’ancien ministre des finances Allemand ( de Maizière),mais comme expliqué sur mon précédent commentaire jamais la Belgique ou la France n’a employé du WEB de 14 (08)

[DisasterDog]

On 09/10/2023 at 06:37, MrEd said:

Do you know what it could mean? Inspection stamps or manufacturer? 
Could the 11 or the 14 be the year?? (Probably not)

It fits the Indian inspection style “C^(number)” but I only have an ink-stamped example on hand:

 

 

[DisasterDog]

On 08/10/2023 at 14:28, MrEd said:

The only other mark is some sort of ink mark on one of the internal flaps. 

That is definitely an assembly stamp to locate the position for a buckle or fitting.  

I would guess it was mis-stamped or the bolt of fabric was damaged or mis-cut, therefore reused in a different application.

[battle of loos]

I dont find any soldier who served in the british army with the name PAGUET

with PAQUET only 3

the french army used the webbing during the end 1914 & 1915

http://www.lesfrancaisaverdun-1916.fr/uniforme800.htm

http://www.karkeeweb.com/patterns/mills_www/france/mdle_1914.html

michel

Edited 13 October , 2023 by battle of loos

[MrEd]

On 13/10/2023 at 15:36, DisasterDog said:

It fits the Indian inspection style “C^(number)” but I only have an ink-stamped example on hand:

 

 

Yeah that was my take aswell. Odd because it isnt that softer stripey Indian weave of ww2 Indian made bits, the bag is deffo of Brit construction. Doesn’t appear to have been repaired with new brass. I wonder if made in the uk and Indian made brass shipped over and fitted? I dont think the Indians ever made 1903 pattern bags 
 

I suspect it’s post ww1 manufacture tbh

Edited 14 October , 2023 by MrEd

[4thGordons]

Another interesting one turned up.

Obviously modified (with a leather reinforced strap added) but even under close examination I see no sign of any rear buckles/tabs (top or bottom) ever having been attached so I am wondering what it was originally?

The closest would appear to be the NZ 1911 variant of the 08 haversack shown here with a stitched on strap rather than buckles. It is certainly "squarer" than the O/S Haversack.

Stamped quite clearly MW&S Ltd 191?  (3? or 5? my best guess is 1915)

Chris

Edited 21 November , 2023 by 4thGordons

[Pete_C]

2 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

Another interesting one turned up.

Obviously modified (with a leather reinforced strap added) but even under close examination I see no sign of any rear buckles/tabs (top or bottom) ever having been attached so I am wondering what it was originally?

The closest would appear to be the NZ 1911 variant of the 08 haversack shown here with a stitched on strap rather than buckles. It is certainly "squarer" than the O/S Haversack.

Stamped quite clearly MW&S Ltd 191?  (3? or 5? my best guess is 1915)

Chris

I’m going to suggest it is a Haversack, Other Services, introduced in February 1911 “for troops not using 1908 web equipment”. I think I can just see the outline on the rear panel of where the 2 inch angled web chapes and buckles have been removed from each side, or maybe they’re just random marks ?
The NZ pattern does appear to resemble more the standard boxy shaped W.E. Patt 1908 Pattern haversack whereas this example appears to have less rigid looking side panels. The Karkee Web states that the OS Haversack is slightly smaller than the W.E Patt 1908 equivalent, if you have one to hand for comparison ?

Pete

The comparison photos are taken from The Karkee Web.

 

Edited 22 November , 2023 by Pete_C

[4thGordons]

Thanks @Pete_C I do have a couple of examples of both for comparison so I'll get some side-by side, and have another look for evidence of removed web chapes in better light (and with my specs on!)

Chris