Help identifying medal please

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, abc123 said:

Thanks for the help — it was a long shot

Am I right in thinking that the mentioned in dispatches leaf wasn't issued with the Burma Star?

No I think it goes on the war medal as opposed to campaign stars, but I cannot recall the details.

Edited 23 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[abc123]

Just now, FROGSMILE said:

No I think it goes on the war medal as opposed to campaign stars.

Thanks. It's on the Indian General Service Medal on a ribbon bar as well, so I guess it was just a mistake

[FROGSMILE]

3 minutes ago, abc123 said:

Thanks. It's on the Indian General Service Medal on a ribbon bar as well, so I guess it was just a mistake

It can appear on campaign medals interwar.  Just not during the two world wars.  See for example: http://www.worcestershireregiment.com/awards_mid.php

Edited 23 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[abc123]

I should probably move it across to the IGSM on the full size medals then.

Thanks for all the help

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, abc123 said:

I should probably move it across to the IGSM on the full size medals then.

Thanks for all the help

Yes, it needs to go on the campaign medal where it was earned, or on a war medal if it was earned during a world war.  If in Waziristan, then it was post war, and so should go on the IGSM.

Edited 23 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[abc123]

Thanks

[MaureenE]

On the Medal Index Card previously posted, he is mentioned as being in the Madras Sappers and Miners. He has a few mentions in The Indian Army List with The Madras Sappers and Miners, but he then seems to disappear from the Indian Army List, so probably he has been transferred to a British Army role

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.284991/page/n712/mode/1up    July 1921 Indian Army List, page 993

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.284971/page/n659/mode/2up  Jan 1922, page 993 but he doesn’t appear in the War Services section

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.285029/page/n565/mode/2up  Oct 1923, page 986

(all from https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Indian_Army_List_online )

Not mentioned in Jan 1924 War Services.

Not there Oct 1924, and not mentioned in the Index at all.

Regarding the India General Service Medal, and clasps, and looking at the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Medal Rolls, https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Medal_Rolls#WO_100_Medal_Rolls, I think he should be in the WO 100 record series at the National Archives, Kew. These records are available on the pay website Ancestry, or as downloads from the National Archives.

If he was mentioned in despatches, then the despatches should appear in The London Gazette available online https://www.thegazette.co.uk

Some despatches 

• "A report on the operations in Waziristan during the period 3rd November 1919 to 7th May 1920". London Gazette 8 December 1920.
• "A report on the operations of the Waziristan Force for the period 1st April to 31st December, 1921" London Gazette Supplement 1 December 1922.
• "A report on the operations in Waziristan for the period 1st January, 1922 to the 20th April, 1923" London Gazette Supplement 27 February 1924
• "Final despatch on the operations of Waziristan Force covering the period 21st April, 1923, to 31st March, 1924" London Gazette Supplement 18 November 1924

Sometimes the people were mentioned in separate despatches, so there could be additional reports etc.

For general background

• Official History of Operations on the N.-W. Frontier of India, 1920-35. Parts I, II, III [by General Staff Army Headquarters, India]. Published by the Manager of Publications, Delhi 1945. Archive.org, mirror from Digital Library of India.

Perhaps the Royal Engineers Museum (Kent, England) may be able to assist https://www.re-museum.co.uk

It may be worthwhile looking at the issues of The Royal Engineers Journal  to see if there is any mention of him there, these are available online from the website NZSappers Sappers of New Zealand section Heritage Material 

 

Maureen

Edited 24 October , 2023 by MaureenE

[abc123]

4 hours ago, MaureenE said:

On the Medal Index Card previously posted, he is mentioned as being in the Madras Sappers and Miners. He has a few mentions in The Indian Army List with The Madras Sappers and Miners, but he then seems to disappear from the Indian Army List, so probably he has been transferred to a British Army role

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.284991/page/n712/mode/1up    July 1921 Indian Army List, page 993

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.284971/page/n659/mode/2up  Jan 1922, page 993 but he doesn’t appear in the War Services section

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.285029/page/n565/mode/2up  Oct 1923, page 986

(all from https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Indian_Army_List_online )

Not mentioned in Jan 1924 War Services.

Not there Oct 1924, and not mentioned in the Index at all.

Regarding the India General Service Medal, and clasps, and looking at the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Medal Rolls, https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Medal_Rolls#WO_100_Medal_Rolls, I think he should be in the WO 100 record series at the National Archives, Kew. These records are available on the pay website Ancestry, or as downloads from the National Archives.

If he was mentioned in despatches, then the despatches should appear in The London Gazette available online https://www.thegazette.co.uk

Some despatches 

• "A report on the operations in Waziristan during the period 3rd November 1919 to 7th May 1920". London Gazette 8 December 1920.
• "A report on the operations of the Waziristan Force for the period 1st April to 31st December, 1921" London Gazette Supplement 1 December 1922.
• "A report on the operations in Waziristan for the period 1st January, 1922 to the 20th April, 1923" London Gazette Supplement 27 February 1924
• "Final despatch on the operations of Waziristan Force covering the period 21st April, 1923, to 31st March, 1924" London Gazette Supplement 18 November 1924

Sometimes the people were mentioned in separate despatches, so there could be additional reports etc.

For general background

• Official History of Operations on the N.-W. Frontier of India, 1920-35. Parts I, II, III [by General Staff Army Headquarters, India]. Published by the Manager of Publications, Delhi 1945. Archive.org, mirror from Digital Library of India.

Perhaps the Royal Engineers Museum (Kent, England) may be able to assist https://www.re-museum.co.uk

It may be worthwhile looking at the issues of The Royal Engineers Journal  to see if there is any mention of him there, these are available online from the website NZSappers Sappers of New Zealand section Heritage Material 

 

Maureen

Thank you very much, that is very interesting 

[FROGSMILE]

6 hours ago, MaureenE said:

On the Medal Index Card previously posted, he is mentioned as being in the Madras Sappers and Miners. He has a few mentions in The Indian Army List with The Madras Sappers and Miners, but he then seems to disappear from the Indian Army List, so probably he has been transferred to a British Army role

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.284991/page/n712/mode/1up    July 1921 Indian Army List, page 993

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.284971/page/n659/mode/2up  Jan 1922, page 993 but he doesn’t appear in the War Services section

https://archive.org/details/in.ernet.dli.2015.285029/page/n565/mode/2up  Oct 1923, page 986

(all from https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Indian_Army_List_online )

Not mentioned in Jan 1924 War Services.

Not there Oct 1924, and not mentioned in the Index at all.

Regarding the India General Service Medal, and clasps, and looking at the FIBIS Fibiwiki page Medal Rolls, https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Medal_Rolls#WO_100_Medal_Rolls, I think he should be in the WO 100 record series at the National Archives, Kew. These records are available on the pay website Ancestry, or as downloads from the National Archives.

If he was mentioned in despatches, then the despatches should appear in The London Gazette available online https://www.thegazette.co.uk

Some despatches 

• "A report on the operations in Waziristan during the period 3rd November 1919 to 7th May 1920". London Gazette 8 December 1920.
• "A report on the operations of the Waziristan Force for the period 1st April to 31st December, 1921" London Gazette Supplement 1 December 1922.
• "A report on the operations in Waziristan for the period 1st January, 1922 to the 20th April, 1923" London Gazette Supplement 27 February 1924
• "Final despatch on the operations of Waziristan Force covering the period 21st April, 1923, to 31st March, 1924" London Gazette Supplement 18 November 1924

Sometimes the people were mentioned in separate despatches, so there could be additional reports etc.

For general background

• Official History of Operations on the N.-W. Frontier of India, 1920-35. Parts I, II, III [by General Staff Army Headquarters, India]. Published by the Manager of Publications, Delhi 1945. Archive.org, mirror from Digital Library of India.

Perhaps the Royal Engineers Museum (Kent, England) may be able to assist https://www.re-museum.co.uk

It may be worthwhile looking at the issues of The Royal Engineers Journal  to see if there is any mention of him there, these are available online from the website NZSappers Sappers of New Zealand section Heritage Material 

 

Maureen

Thank you Maureen, very helpful and comprehensive information from you and FIBIS, as ever!  I recall reading that all the British Officers in the Sappers and Miners came on secondment from the Royal Engineers, so when he disappears from the Indian Army List I suppose that he might have returned to the Royal Engineers at that point as you’ve suggested. 

Edited 24 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[TullochArd]

The MiD would appear to be for the following service: 

"War Office, 30th May 1924. The names of the undermentioned have been brought to notice for distinguished service during the operations in Waziristan, January, 1922, to April, 1923, by His Excellency General Lord Rawlinson of Trent, G.C.B., G.C.V.O., K.C.M.G., Commander-in-Chief in India, in the despatch dated 25th July, 1923 (published in the Supplement to the London Gazette dated 27th February, 1924)." .......... "Royal Engineers. Bolton, Lt. E. A. E., attd. 2/S. & M., I.A."

I couldn't find any MiD for service in Burma or WW2.  Seems like it is correct on the miniature set.

[abc123]

Thank you very much @TullochArd

Is that from the London Gazette?

[TullochArd]

2 minutes ago, abc123 said:

Is that from the London Gazette?

Apologies abc123.  It is indeed from the London Gazette -  30 May 1924 Issue 32940 Page 4306.

[abc123]

1 minute ago, TullochArd said:

Apologies abc123.  It is indeed from the London Gazette -  30 May 1924 Issue 32940 Page 4306.

Thank you