Can anyone ID this (German) port?

[4thGordons]

I know this is a long-shot.  I recently acquired several photos which appear to show a German port town and I was wondering if, by chance, anyone can identify it. One pic seems to show ocean going "ships" the others river barges. There are rail lines on the quays none of which narrows much down.  There are only a few buildings visible in one pic, some boats/ships/cranes in others (and a band practicing on the harborside). There is some writing on the cranes but I have been unable to discover the meaning (beyond just numbering particular cranes) and if it has any relevance to the location.  These were in a mixed lot of German pics and clearly come from the same set (tone/paper etc all being identical) -- just wondered if anyone could identify the location.

Thanks in advance

Chris

This one (below) has the most visible view of buildings:

This last seems to show larger ships - the one closer to the the quay has something on the stern - it is hard to read by appears to be something like 

CANDEON?

Chris

 

[DavidOwen]

Teltow? The crane in the background looks to have a similar appearance to the one here Station 13 – The (old) Teltow harbour – TELTOUR (heimatverein-teltow.de)

[GreyC]

Well spotted, but I am sceptical. These cranes were „mass“ produced by a number of manufactures. The type might be allocated to a certain manufacturer by a specialist. The large ship has its homeport in Bremen. The barge on the photo with the buildings seems to have cyrilic letters on its side. I would guess somewhere in the Baltic Sea, as the Teltow habour seems to be too narrow and the warter to shallow for the big ship.

GreyC

Edited 19 September , 2023 by GreyC

[DavidOwen]

No worries it was a long shot.

Hopefully someone else can pinpoint it.

[4thGordons]

Thanks both! I had a feeling the cranes were perhaps a standard / common type - wondered if the lettering MKD? would help

I am not sure if it Cyrillic or not - certainly could be

 

Edited 19 September , 2023 by 4thGordons

[Wexflyer]

On 19/09/2023 at 10:35, 4thGordons said:

Thanks both! I had a feeling the cranes were perhaps a standard / common type - wondered if the lettering MKD? would help

I am not sure if it Cyrillic or not - certainly could be

 

 

Your photo is flipped horizontally. Much easier to read if you undo that!

[AOK4]

The pics with "MKD" were taken in occupied France or Belgium. MKD stands for Militär-Kanal-Direktion (the German military directorate for the waterways in occupied territories).

Jan

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Yes as Wexflyer states, the image is flipped horizontally. Here it is unflipped:

I think it says BELGIE   something.... TOMHS

 

[DavidOwen]

Might the middle world be Antwerp?

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Actually looking again, I don't think it says BELGIE.
The E must be the first letter of the middle word, and looks like it begins  'Ent...'

[DavidOwen]

I was reading between Belge and Antwerp as "II"? 

There was a Lloyd Royal Belge shipping line founded in 1915 Lloyd Royal Belge (theshipslist.com)

 

[4thGordons]

6 hours ago, Wexflyer said:

 

Your photo is flipped horizontally. Much easier to read if you undo that!

Thanks! Never thought to check - clearly the negative was reversed in the printing process but without a jacket buttoning the wrong way (my usual tip off) I completely missed that!

Chris

[Bob Davies]

I found this picture for you Chris, the gable ends of the sheds look the same.

An Edit here; The end gable triangles might be a standard 'cast iron piece' which may have been used elsewhere too?

 

picture/screenshot courtesy of https://www.ggarchives.com/OceanTravel/PortsOfCall/Antwerp.html

 

Edited 29 January by Bob Davies
To add a bit

[Wexflyer]

4 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

I found this picture for you Chris, the gable ends of the sheds look the same.

picture/screenshot courtesy of https://www.ggarchives.com/OceanTravel/PortsOfCall/Antwerp.html

 

I would also support Antwerp. While there were several German occupied ports, this is I think the only one large enough to have the ocean going ships and infrastructure  shown in the photographs.

[AOK4]

Hello,

There may be a picture from Antwerp, but most of the others seem to be from an inland port in France or Belgium.

Jan

[Wexflyer]

6 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

Hello,

There may be a picture from Antwerp, but most of the others seem to be from an inland port in France or Belgium.

Jan

 

Antwerp is an inland port in Belgium. What am I missing?

[MerchantOldSalt]

In the fifth photo, the inner of the two ships alongside is the GANELON registered in Bremen.  Built in 1907 by Swan Hunter & Wigham Richardson at Wallsend for the Roland Linie AG of Bremen.

In August 1914 she was seized at Antwerp and detained for the duration of the war though obviously not in Antwerp.  If the photo was taken during the war, it might be Antwerp before the Germans arrived or an allied held port. Otherwise, it is before the war and as the Roland Linie ran from Bremen it may be that port. However it does look like Antwerp to me and they are German uniforms which makes it a puzzle.

In 1919 she was handed over to The Shipping Controller and in 1921 renamed CITY OF BATAVIA under the ownership of the City of Oran Steamship Company. In 1923 she was sold to Ellerman & Bucknall and then had various owners until 12 April 1955 when she stranded, broke in two and sank south of Ouessant on a voyage from Bone to Ghent with iron ore.  The attached picture is of her post war in Ellerman & Bucknall colours courtesy of Photoship

Tony

Edited 29 January by MerchantOldSalt

[MerchantOldSalt]

Extract from LLoyd's Gazette Supplement 29 Aug 1914.  

On investigating over 10 of these ships they were indeed seized by the Belgian Government in Antwerp in Aug 1914 but reverted to German ownership on the entry of German Troops into that city.  I cannot find conclusive proof that the GANELON was still there but it seems very likely and would explain the presence of German troops in the first photo and almost confirm that the port in the photos is Antwerp. Apparently many of them remained in lay-up in Antwerp for the remainder of the war

Tony

 

 

Edited 29 January by MerchantOldSalt

[MerchantOldSalt]

The name on the bows of the barge is BELGIE vn Antwerpen Ton 115 or BELGIE of Antwerp,  Ton 115 being the barges measurement tonnage.

Tony  

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

2 hours ago, MerchantOldSalt said:

The name on the bows of the barge is BELGIE vn Antwerpen Ton 115 or BELGIE of Antwerp,  Ton 115 being the barges measurement tonnage.

Tony  

Thanks for that.

[AOK4]

11 hours ago, Wexflyer said:

 

Antwerp is an inland port in Belgium. What am I missing?

Picture 2 and 3 don't look anything like Antwerp, the river is too narrow.

[Wexflyer]

8 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

Picture 2 and 3 don't look anything like Antwerp, the river is too narrow.

There are multiple docks and canals in Antwerp.

[AOK4]

45 minutes ago, Wexflyer said:

There are multiple docks and canals in Antwerp.

You can think what you want. I stick to my point (and I have quite a bit of experience with identifying WWI German pictures).

Jan

[GreyC]

1 hour ago, Wexflyer said:

There are multiple docks and canals in Antwerp.

True. But not all photos need to have been taken there. The vessel nearest to the camera has a name on it that might be decipherable on the original (Romeo?). The place might equally well be Mons for example. A narrow river/canal flows through the city there and has a quay and the MKD was present there.

GreyC

Edited 30 January by GreyC

[AOK4]

Another point (I had to look in my pictures taken from German archival documents): Antwerp didn't belong to the MKD area, so there were no MKD cranes in Antwerp. Pictures 2 and 3 must be somewhere in the Etappengebiet in Belgium or Northern France. And there were quite a few Hafenämter and Kanalbetriebsämter...

Jan

Edited 30 January by AOK4