How would I go about contacting a source person on the Imperial War Museum Website?

[Daniel Dixon]

Hi all, I'd like to start by giving a bit of background. I have been researching my family tree for a few years now but there's one particular offshoot that I am interested in. The family in question where all military educated and served in the Military, sadly 3 died during WW1. James Rogers (Royal Field Artillery), Sergeant Major John Rogers (Hauraki Regiment, New Zealand) and Private Joseph Rogers (Yorkshire Regiment)

A different brother, born as Jerald Rogers in 1882, but also going by the name of George and Jock; lived through World War 1 and he was in the Durham Light Infantry as an Lt. Captain. I only made this discovery yesterday but the information I found was through findmypast and someone had left a story about how this person was their grandfather and was interested in finding out more about his brothers.

I have quite a bit of information on his brothers and I have a photograph from around 1910-1915 of one of her grandfathers brothers, Sergeant John Rogers. They are my 1st cousins 3x removed. They will have been my great grandfathers 1st cousins.

Now I have found a username left by someone on the Imperial War Museum who must have been the one who contributed, she is called Lucy, but there is no way to contact her, I have emailed IWM directly to contact her on my behalf but I'm just wondering if anyone had any other advice on how to contact this person? It would be a shame for this information not to be passed on, I believe she is my 3rd cousin.

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/3807129

Link to the record.

This person whos' profile I've linked also seemed interested in this family from a forum post I found, maybe a relative, I'm not sure, I notice his profile says he may have passed away, rest in peace Bob, it is a shame we couldn't have spoke.

https://www.greatwarforum.org/profile/11-bob-coulson/

[charlie962]

Welcome Daniel 

When the IWM/Findmypast website Lives of The First World War was closed and archived we lost the ability to contact contributors by pm. I was a contributor but I'm pretty sure noone can contact me now.

Perhaps a look at other soldiers maybe in the same 'community' that have contributions with same source might give clues. But sadly v v difficult. 

Charlie

Edited 11 September , 2023 by charlie962

[charlie962]

Looking at the link you provided, there is no 'community' and Lucy appears only to have matched the MIC and CWGC record. This suggests to me that Lucy was one of a large team of IWM volunteers who did similar jobs (great work) for the whole database and had no actual direct interest in that individual soldier. 

Edit.. but you said someone had posted a story. I've looked at Findmypast and cannot see that. Could you post the link for the transcription please

Edited 11 September , 2023 by charlie962

[charlie962]

Ah, I think you mean this

Could that just be a transcript of what is on cwgc although it seems odd?

[Daniel Dixon]

1 hour ago, charlie962 said:

Looking at the link you provided, there is no 'community' and Lucy appears only to have matched the MIC and CWGC record. This suggests to me that Lucy was one of a large team of IWM volunteers who did similar jobs (great work) for the whole database and had no actual direct interest in that individual soldier. 

Edit.. but you said someone had posted a story. I've looked at Findmypast and cannot see that. Could you post the link for the transcription please

Hi mate, this is what I was talking about from findmypast. I didn't realise they closed down and archives that part of the website, which is such a shame. I am devasted honestly as there is no other way to contact them, I haven't found their tree on either Ancestry or findmypast.

 

Here is the transcript, and link. https://www.findmypast.co.uk/transcript?id=GBM%2FLIVES%2F3807129

 

 

 

 

Edited 11 September , 2023 by Daniel Dixon
Spelling

[charlie962]

Ah, I missed that bit (easy to do) and now see that Lucy was granddaughter of George/Gerald.

Are there any family trees on Ancestry? 

...you said no!

Edited 11 September , 2023 by charlie962

[Daniel Dixon]

6 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Ah, I missed that bit (easy to do) and now see that Lucy was granddaughter of George/Gerald.

Are there any family trees on Ancestry? 

...you said no!

I personally think it's her yes, but it would be a very slim chance to contact her now and she is likely 70-80+ years of age considering her grandfather was born in 1882. 

There are 3 trees on there that I can see but none of them have responded to anything I've messaged to them in the past and there isn't one named after Lucy's family tree etc.

 

[Chasemuseum]

Daniel,

don't give up. She may be in her 70s or 80s or may be a bit younger. My grandfathers were born in 1867 and 1882 and I am only 65 (albeit my grandmothers were born in 1880 and 1892).

Cheers

Ross

[Daniel Dixon]

56 minutes ago, Chasemuseum said:

Daniel,

don't give up. She may be in her 70s or 80s or may be a bit younger. My grandfathers were born in 1867 and 1882 and I am only 65 (albeit my grandmothers were born in 1880 and 1892).

Cheers

Ross

Thank you for the encouragment, I guess you're right, she could be, I just can't believe the one link I could make has now lost the ability to contact that person. 

I had just thought about what you said actually, my Mams' grandfather was born in 1899 and she's 52, so the woman in question i'm looking for might be around this age. 

It's going to be like finding a needle in a haystack haha

[JMB1943]

Daniel,

You have a fair amount of info regarding George Rogers, so a good starting point to research him and thereby identify Lucy.

1. Contact the DLI museum for his regimental/ army numbers

2. Find his army record at TNA ; many were lost to fire during WW2, but if it still exists should have wife/children names. [If it doesn’t exist, you can still use FreeBMD but it may not be so easy, together with any family history that you have]. I believe that officer files were stored separately, and were not lost.

3. Use FreeBMD(.org.uk) online to search for birth/ marriage of his descendants; VERY easy to use and you may find Lucy quite quickly.

This may identify Lucy (Rogers / Unknown) but locating her may be difficult (voter lists etc).

Good Luck with your research!

Regards,

JMB

 

[Keith_history_buff]

The IWM had to ring-fence what it did with regard to Lives of the First World War, and to place the platform in suspended animation once the funding ran out. They would not have had neither a risk appetite nor an ongoing budget to allow contributors to remain in touch. Furthermore, the headache around GDPR was probably a big disincentive too.

Whomever Lucy was, she only added to the one profile. She was not prolific, so that would rule her out as an IWM volunteer.

Of those family trees on Ancestry, one of those suggests the existence of a Colour Sergeant George Rogers, present with the Durham Light Infantry, garrisoned at Hyderabad Barracks, Military Road & Mersea Road, Colchester, Essex. Source: 1911 census, archive reference RG 14/10304

1. Further information on George Rogers would appear to be available from an out-of-print book, a copy of which the regimental museum may well have.

Quote

First name(s)    George
Last name    Rogers
Year    1899-1902
Rank    Colour-Sergeant
Regiment    The Durham Light Infantry
Literary references    Officers of Durham Light Infantry 1758-1968, MacGregor, Malcolm privately published 1989.  pg262

Source: The Register of the Anglo-Boer War licenced via http://www.casus-belli.co.uk/index.asp?PageId=116 and accessed in this instance via Findmypast. For my part, I have seen seasoned SNCOs of the same age as George Rogers who were commissioned in 1914 whilst in the UK, which would fit. For a fee, you could hire the services of the casus belli register team. I have no commercial link with this enterprise.

2. There is a 6791 Lance Corporal G Rogers, 1st Battalion Durham Light Infantry, who appears on the KSA medal roll, archive reference WO 100/342. 
Source: The Register of the Anglo-Boer War licenced via http://www.casus-belli.co.uk/index.asp?PageId=116 and accessed in this instance via Findmypast.  I believe they could be the same man.

A test of the service number does seem to fit:
 

Quote

6359 joined on 3rd May 1898
6671 joined on 18th January 1899
7157 joined on 2nd May 1900

Source:
https://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.com/2009/06/durham-light-infantry-1st-2nd.html
Paul Nixon has the right under the Copyright, Designs and Patents Act, 1988, to be identified as the author of the aforementioned work.

[Keith_history_buff]

There is an interesting record that is accessible via FindMyPast, militia attestations. This is from Yorkshire Regiment (Green Howards) militia attestations 1896 - 1912, surnames REA - SHA, archive reference WO 96/391.

Gerald Rogers attested on 19 August 1898 to serve in the 3rd (Militia) Battalion, and was allocated service number 4340. The final page of the record is interesting, and is a document that I have never seen before. It is a "CERTIFICATE OF RECRUITER" which confirms that recruit Gerald Rogers lives at 7 Woodhouse Terrace, Middlesbrough. This is certified by Colour Sergeant J Blow on 19 August 1898.

On 14 December 1899, the militia were "embodied", a term used by the TF in 1914 and not by the Special Reserve. He was absent. It would appear from the prior post that he had enlisted in the D.L.I. earlier that year, and for whatever reason, this had not been passed on to the Yorkshire Regiment militia, so he could be removed from their books.

[Keith_history_buff]

George Rogers appears in the October 1918 monthly Army List. I have butchered the image from the list, so that the headers appear above his name. This is something of an open sesame for the extra detail that it gives us.


The first question that most people ask is "Does the officer have a file at Kew?" One answer to this question is "If the officer concerned served from or after April 1922 , their service record is still with the Ministry of Defence." So, we know that his service record is with the Ministry of Defence and in principle, you can apply.

 

[Keith_history_buff]

An august member of this forum did ask the Ministry of Defence to provide a list in 2014, of all British Army service records in the possession of the Ministry of Defence, for men who were born prior to 1901. This can be accessed for free and is several line items. For Ancestry subscribers, this information is available in a searchable dataset.

It would appear that his service record has survived, and that it has an unique identifier of AOW000074445 . When P-numbers were given to officers, his is P11555.

Images courtesy Ancestry

Source

Source Information

Ancestry.com. UK, Military Discharge Indexes, 1920-1971 [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2017.

Original data: Contains public sector information licensed under the Open Government Licence v3.0. You can find more information here.

Description

These lists comprise the names and service numbers of those who were discharged from the armed forces after 1920 and born before 1901. Learn more...

[Keith_history_buff]

Link to
UK, Military Discharge Indexes, 1920-1971
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61448/

[Keith_history_buff]

3 hours ago, Keith_history_buff said:

1. Further information on George Rogers would appear to be available from an out-of-print book, a copy of which the regimental museum may well have.

Many regimental museums will undertake research for an admin fee of about GBP 30.00 and I would imagine the DLI museum can do the same, but there was no mention on the websites that I looked at.

Contact DLI:
https://www.thisisdurham.com/things-to-do/dli-collection-at-sevenhills-p902781/email

https://www.durham.gov.uk/article/7430/Durham-Light-Infantry-research-study-and-education

If you live in the vicinity, perhaps you can pop in.

 

[Keith_history_buff]

Noting that the crossed swords indicates prior war service, there might be a bit more info in one of the following two sources, which I think is how he ended up in the privately published "Officers of Durham Light Infantry 1758-1968" mentioned earlier.

WAR SERVICES SUPPLEMENT (corrected to 31 dec 1917) as republished in 2001 by N&M Press
https://www.naval-military-press.com/product/war-services-supplement-corrected-to-31-dec-1917/

Similar to above, but published in 1919, republished in 2001 in 4 volumes by N&M Press
https://www.naval-military-press.com/product/quarterly-army-list-for-the-quarter-ending-31st-december-1919-part-ii-war-services-of-officers-of-the-army-etc/

[MaureenE]

The links mentioned by Keith is likely  a Supplement to the  Quarterly Amy List which are linked from the FIBIS Fibiwi page

https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Army_List_for_British_Army_online#Quarterly_Army_List

The links are to Archive.org, National Library of Scotland collection. There are War Services Supplements for 1915-1919.

1917 is https://archive.org/details/armylistjanpart131919grea/page/n5/mode/2up

1919 https://archive.org/details/armylistjanpart21920grea/page/n7/mode/2up

Maureen

Edited 15 September , 2023 by MaureenE

[Keith_history_buff]

Many thanks, Maureen!

A quick look at the 1919 War Service Supplement shows he is there, on the lower left hand side of page 1420, with further info about his war service in the Anglo-Boer War 1899-1902.

 

[TDH50]

On 14/09/2023 at 14:56, JMB1943 said:

Daniel,

You have a fair amount of info regarding George Rogers, so a good starting point to research him and thereby identify Lucy.

1. Contact the DLI museum for his regimental/ army numbers

I wouldn’t place much faith in the DLI museum being able to help you unfortunately, it effectively does not exist.

It was closed down by the County Council a number of years ago as a “cost cutting” exercise and the contents were placed in storage at a number of disparate locations.

There are rumours of a re-consolidation but………

Edited 16 September , 2023 by TDH50

[Daniel Dixon]

On 15/09/2023 at 09:26, Keith_history_buff said:

Many thanks, Maureen!

A quick look at the 1919 War Service Supplement shows he is there, on the lower left hand side of page 1420, with further info about his war service in the Anglo-Boer War 1899-1902.

 

 

Hi Keith, my apologies for the late reply, I have been rather busy. I found a probate record on Ancestry for George Rogers (known as Gerald) and his wife was listed and he died in Brighton in 1950. I then contacted the Durham Light infantry website 'Those who proudly served' and the response I got was amazing, with the information I gave the owner, he managed to find this for me.

The Excerpt reads

"ROGERS, George, born 10 July 1881; 2nd Lieutenant DLI 9 April 1915; (temp Lieutenant 10 June 1915 to 20 January 1917); Lieutenant 21 January 1917; Captain 4 April 1921; Retired 5 November 1927; Captain Reserve of Officers 24 May 1918 (5 November 1927). Commissioned from Colour-Sergeant. served in ranks 15 years 273 days. Adjutant and Quartermaster School of Education Newmarket (temp) (acting Captain 24 May 1918 to 3 April 1921) 21 May 1920 to 31 March 1922. Admin Officer, Small Arms School 1 September 1923 to retirement. Served South African War 1900-02. Operations in Cape Colony, Orange River Colony and the Transvaal. Queens Medal with three clasps, Kings Medal with two clasps. Served European War 1914-1921, France and Belgium 23 August 1917 to 17 October 1917, British War Medal, Victory Medal. Joined the 1st Bn in Aldershot in 1899 and served with them in South Africa, later serving in India where he was distinguished as a Master-at-Arms. on return to England in 1907, joined the 2nd Bn at Cork. After retiring from the army, he ran a school in the East End of London with great success, where he imparted his knowledge of boxing and fencing to many boys. Died in 1950 (RJ, Jan 1951) 

Thank you Jim.

I will add this information to my family tree on Ancestry in the hope one day Lucy or his grandchildren see it. I would love to show them the photo I have of Captain George Rogers' brother, Sergeant Major John Rogers.

 

(P.s I have seen Georges 1898 Attestation papers, thank you all the same)

 

 

[Keith_history_buff]

How interesting that all that detail came from one passionate person with a website, rather than the DLI regimental museum & archive. Thanks for sharing this.
https://durhamlightinfantry1920-46.weebly.com/

 

 

[RaySearching]

19 hours ago, Daniel Dixon said:

The Excerpt reads

"ROGERS, George, born 10 July 1881; 2nd Lieutenant DLI 9 April 1915; (temp Lieutenant 10 June 1915 to 20 January 1917); Lieutenant 21 January 1917;

 

whilst a bit late to this thread   having researched the three bothers who were killed in action and the family some time ago

I believe the above date of birth to be incorrect

here is what I have

Gerald Rodgers was born in the  July to Sept Qtr of 1882  in Thornaby  (as Militia and census documents)

The son of James and Catherine Rodgers

His birth registered in Middlesbrough,

Thornaby on the outskirts of Middlesbrough was in 1882 within the registration district of  Middlesbrough

His parents James and Catherine Rodgers (nee McDonald married in Middlesbrough in 1881

 Gerald attested on the 10th August 1898 into the Militia (3rd Yorks Regiment)

giving his age as 17 years and 5 months old his address as 7 Woodhouse Terrace Middlesbrough and allocated the service number 4340

Gerald's  service record shows he was absent from embodiment on the 14/12/99

(No further entries on his service record)

 

The 1901 census shows that Gerald's parents and siblings can be found at 7 Woodhouse Terrace Middlesbrough, Gerald absent from the family home

Some time after 1899 Gerald Rodgers enlisted into the regular army The Durham light Infantry as George Rogers 

George Rogers as he is now known  can be found on the 1911 census with the Durham Light Infantry in Hyderbad Barracks Military Road Colchester aged 28 a Colour Sergeant

Gerald now serving as George his father James also now Rogers and siblings can be found on the 1911 census at 4 Short Street North Ormesby  His mother Catherine absent from the family home

 Catherine  as Rodgers can be found on the 1911 census visiting relatives the McDonald family at 20 Lyndhurst Street Thornaby

  George (previously Gerald)  MIC shows that he entered the theatre of war in France on the  23/8/1917 awarded the BWM and VM  his medals to be impressed with the rank of Lieutenant

 

The London Gazette entry  8th April 1915 commissioned 2nd Lieut

Whilst he is shown as serving with the 15th Bn DLI on his MIC

he is not mentioned as joining the 15th Bn or mentioned in the 15th Bn war diary

he may have served with another unit of the DLI during his period of service with the DLI in the theatre of war ( further research needed)

 

Geralds  three brothers who were killed in action

 

ROGERS JOHN

Sergeant Major JOHN ROGERS / RODGERS
12/128 Auckland Regiment, N.Z.E.F
On the 10th October 1906 John serving in the 4th Yorks Militia applied to join the regular army

He enlisted into the Grenadier Guards on the 31st October 1906 whist residing at 107 Lower East Street Middlesbrough giving his age as 17 years and 9 months old and his occupation as a steel works labourer his mother testified that John was born on the 6th February 1889 he was allocated the service number 12952 and he was informed that he would be on boys pay until he attained the age of 18. His later New Zealand service papers however, list his date of birth as 14th January 1889 

John requested a transfer to 2nd Bn Durham Light Infantry as he wished to serve with his older brother in that unit. On the 21st August 1907 John was transferred to the DLI, conditions of service (seven years with the colours and five in reserves)

Having completed his term of service on the 31st October 1913 and attaining the rank of Sergeant with the DLI ,John was placed in army reserves

As a reservist John requested permission to reside in New Zealand, permission was granted. On the 3/11/1913 he set sail on the 5/11/1913 for New Zealand

Mobilised from army John joined the 6 Hauraki Coy and was soon promoted through the ranks to Sergeant Major. The Aucklander’s were the first of the New Zealanders to go ashore  at Anzac Cove Gallipoli, they had arrived on the TS Lutzow, John was killed in the the Battle of The Landings aged 24 on 25th April 1915 in fighting at the Hill Baby 700
The history of the Auckland Regiment carries the following passage, As he lay dying Sergeant Major Rogers raised himself on his elbow and spoke to the men passing on up, “Don’t let them beat you boys, don’t let them beat you.”
John was the son of James an iron foundry labourer born Ireland (his father could neither read or write) and Catherine Rogers (nee McDonald) born Port Clarence near Middlesbrough, of 17 Queen Street North Ormesby Middlesbrough

 On the 1911 census residing John’s father and siblings can be found at 4 Short Street North Ormesby
 a later address for his parents was 17 Queen Street North Ormesby  John’s  last New Zealand address was Leicester House Huntly, John can be found on the 1911 census as Corporal John Rogers aged 21 with the D.L.I at Hyderabad Barracks Military Road Colchester

 

On the 1911 census, the family residing at North Ormesby Middlesbrough, are shown as Rogers,

Catherine John’s mother is absent from the family home

Catherine can be found on the 1911 census visiting relatives (the McDonald family) at 20 Lyndhurst Street Thornaby her name spelt Rodgers

 Note. The family name originally was spelt as Rodgers this over time became shortened and spelt as Rogers

On the 1901 census the family are Rodgers,

On Sergeant Major John Rogers 12/128 Auckland Regiment, N.Z.E.F application form to join the New

Zealand Defence Force which can be found among his service records, John signed his name as Rodgers although on later service papers Rogers is shown

John nominated his sister Margaret Rogers of 4 Rose Street Sydney NSW as the executrix of his will

Margaret received his medals and war gratuity, his plaque and scroll were sent to his father James Rodgers in North Ormesby Middlesbrough

A photo can be found of John (Rodgers) in the 8th July 1915 edition of the Illustrated Chronicle

Born Middlesbrough 1889

LONE PINE MEMORIAL                (Middlesbrough war memorial)  (Auckland war memorial)

 

Note. Whilst John is recorded as having been aged 24 on the CWGC, born Jan 1889, KIA April 1915 he would have been aged 26 when he perished
 

ROGERS JAMES
Gunner JAMES ROGERS
46425 Royal Field Artillery  (A Bty 170th Bde)

James initially  enlisted on the 8th September 1914 in Newcastle and placed in the Northumberland Fusiliers allocated the service number 5906 he was discharged from service as not likely to be an efficient soldier and discharged from duty on the 27th November 1914

James re-enlisted or was called up for service, he was wounded in action and died of his wounds aged 27 on 17th May 1916
He was the son of James and Catherine Rogers
James can be found on the 1911 census residing with his father an iron foundry labourer and siblings at
4 Short Street North Ormesby Middlesbrough employed as a ship plate riveter (his mother absent from the family home) later of 17 Queen Street North Ormesby
James with both of his parents and siblings can be found on the 1901 census residing at 7 Woodhouse Terrace Middlesbrough  He was the brother of John listed above who also fell

The register of soldiers’ effects list his father James as the legatee of his effects

The claimant of a dependant’s pension in respect of the brothers James and Joseph is listed as Mr James Rogers (father) born 1854 of 8 Stevenson Street North Ormesby Middlesbrough died 11/2/1924

Born Middlesbrough enlisted Southwark London                  (N.E.D.G 24th May 1916)
LOUVENCOURT MILITARY CEMETERY  (Middlesbrough war memorial)  

ROGERS JOSEPH
Private JOSEPH ROGERS
3/7920 8th Bn Yorkshire Regiment
Joseph was killed in action in an attack on the the village of Contalmaison on the 10th July 1916 during the Battle of the Somme

Joseph Rogers was the third son of James and Catherine who fell, Joseph can be found on the 1911 census aged 13 which would have made him just 18 in 1916 when he perrished

The register of soldiers’ effects list his father James as the legatee of his effects

The claimant of a dependant’s pension in respect of the brothers James and Joseph is listed as Mr James Rogers (father) born 1854 of 8 Stevenson Street North Ormesby Middlesbrough

Born and enlisted Middlesbrough             
THIEPVAL MEMORIAL                 (Middlesbrough war memorial)  

 

Ray

 

 

[RaySearching]

S. A. medal roll

[Daniel Dixon]

15 hours ago, RaySearching said:

 

whilst a bit late to this thread   having researched the three bothers who were killed in action and the family some time ago

I believe the above date of birth to be incorrect

here is what I have

Gerald Rodgers was born in the  July to Sept Qtr of 1882  in Thornaby  (as Militia and census documents)

The son of James and Catherine Rodgers

His birth registered in Middlesbrough,

Thornaby on the outskirts of Middlesbrough was in 1882 within the registration district of  Middlesbrough

His parents James and Catherine Rodgers (nee McDonald married in Middlesbrough in 1881

 

 

 Gerald attested on the 10th August 1898 into the Militia (3rd Yorks Regiment)

giving his age as 17 years and 5 months old his address as 7 Woodhouse Terrace Middlesbrough and allocated the service number 4340

Gerald's  service record shows he was absent from embodiment on the 14/12/99

(No further entries on his service record)

 

The 1901 census shows that Gerald's parents and siblings can be found at 7 Woodhouse Terrace Middlesbrough, Gerald absent from the family home

Some time after 1899 Gerald Rodgers enlisted into the regular army The Durham light Infantry as George Rogers 

George Rogers as he is now known  can be found on the 1911 census with the Durham Light Infantry in Hyderbad Barracks Military Road Colchester aged 28 a Colour Sergeant

Gerald now serving as George his father James also now Rogers and siblings can be found on the 1911 census at 4 Short Street North Ormesby  His mother Catherine absent from the family home

 Catherine  as Rodgers can be found on the 1911 census visiting relatives the McDonald family at 20 Lyndhurst Street Thornaby

 

  George (previously Gerald)  MIC shows that he entered the theatre of war in France on the  23/8/1917 awarded the BWM and VM  his medals to be impressed with the rank of Lieutenant

 

 

The London Gazette entry  8th April 1915 commissioned 2nd Lieut

Whilst he is shown as serving with the 15th Bn DLI on his MIC

he is not mentioned as joining the 15th Bn or mentioned in the 15th Bn war diary

he may have served with another unit of the DLI during his period of service with the DLI in the theatre of war ( further research needed)

 

Geralds  three brothers who were killed in action

 

ROGERS JOHN

Sergeant Major JOHN ROGERS / RODGERS
12/128 Auckland Regiment, N.Z.E.F
On the 10th October 1906 John serving in the 4th Yorks Militia applied to join the regular army

He enlisted into the Grenadier Guards on the 31st October 1906 whist residing at 107 Lower East Street Middlesbrough giving his age as 17 years and 9 months old and his occupation as a steel works labourer his mother testified that John was born on the 6th February 1889 he was allocated the service number 12952 and he was informed that he would be on boys pay until he attained the age of 18. His later New Zealand service papers however, list his date of birth as 14th January 1889 

John requested a transfer to 2nd Bn Durham Light Infantry as he wished to serve with his older brother in that unit. On the 21st August 1907 John was transferred to the DLI, conditions of service (seven years with the colours and five in reserves)

Having completed his term of service on the 31st October 1913 and attaining the rank of Sergeant with the DLI ,John was placed in army reserves

As a reservist John requested permission to reside in New Zealand, permission was granted. On the 3/11/1913 he set sail on the 5/11/1913 for New Zealand

Mobilised from army John joined the 6 Hauraki Coy and was soon promoted through the ranks to Sergeant Major. The Aucklander’s were the first of the New Zealanders to go ashore  at Anzac Cove Gallipoli, they had arrived on the TS Lutzow, John was killed in the the Battle of The Landings aged 24 on 25th April 1915 in fighting at the Hill Baby 700
The history of the Auckland Regiment carries the following passage, As he lay dying Sergeant Major Rogers raised himself on his elbow and spoke to the men passing on up, “Don’t let them beat you boys, don’t let them beat you.”
John was the son of James an iron foundry labourer born Ireland (his father could neither read or write) and Catherine Rogers (nee McDonald) born Port Clarence near Middlesbrough, of 17 Queen Street North Ormesby Middlesbrough

 On the 1911 census residing John’s father and siblings can be found at 4 Short Street North Ormesby
 a later address for his parents was 17 Queen Street North Ormesby  John’s  last New Zealand address was Leicester House Huntly, John can be found on the 1911 census as Corporal John Rogers aged 21 with the D.L.I at Hyderabad Barracks Military Road Colchester

 

On the 1911 census, the family residing at North Ormesby Middlesbrough, are shown as Rogers,

Catherine John’s mother is absent from the family home

Catherine can be found on the 1911 census visiting relatives (the McDonald family) at 20 Lyndhurst Street Thornaby her name spelt Rodgers

 Note. The family name originally was spelt as Rodgers this over time became shortened and spelt as Rogers

On the 1901 census the family are Rodgers,

On Sergeant Major John Rogers 12/128 Auckland Regiment, N.Z.E.F application form to join the New

Zealand Defence Force which can be found among his service records, John signed his name as Rodgers although on later service papers Rogers is shown

John nominated his sister Margaret Rogers of 4 Rose Street Sydney NSW as the executrix of his will

Margaret received his medals and war gratuity, his plaque and scroll were sent to his father James Rodgers in North Ormesby Middlesbrough

A photo can be found of John (Rodgers) in the 8th July 1915 edition of the Illustrated Chronicle

Born Middlesbrough 1889

LONE PINE MEMORIAL                (Middlesbrough war memorial)  (Auckland war memorial)

 

Note. Whilst John is recorded as having been aged 24 on the CWGC, born Jan 1889, KIA April 1915 he would have been aged 26 when he perished
 

ROGERS JAMES
Gunner JAMES ROGERS
46425 Royal Field Artillery  (A Bty 170th Bde)

James initially  enlisted on the 8th September 1914 in Newcastle and placed in the Northumberland Fusiliers allocated the service number 5906 he was discharged from service as not likely to be an efficient soldier and discharged from duty on the 27th November 1914

James re-enlisted or was called up for service, he was wounded in action and died of his wounds aged 27 on 17th May 1916
He was the son of James and Catherine Rogers
James can be found on the 1911 census residing with his father an iron foundry labourer and siblings at
4 Short Street North Ormesby Middlesbrough employed as a ship plate riveter (his mother absent from the family home) later of 17 Queen Street North Ormesby
James with both of his parents and siblings can be found on the 1901 census residing at 7 Woodhouse Terrace Middlesbrough  He was the brother of John listed above who also fell

The register of soldiers’ effects list his father James as the legatee of his effects

The claimant of a dependant’s pension in respect of the brothers James and Joseph is listed as Mr James Rogers (father) born 1854 of 8 Stevenson Street North Ormesby Middlesbrough died 11/2/1924

Born Middlesbrough enlisted Southwark London                  (N.E.D.G 24th May 1916)
LOUVENCOURT MILITARY CEMETERY  (Middlesbrough war memorial)  

ROGERS JOSEPH
Private JOSEPH ROGERS
3/7920 8th Bn Yorkshire Regiment
Joseph was killed in action in an attack on the the village of Contalmaison on the 10th July 1916 during the Battle of the Somme

Joseph Rogers was the third son of James and Catherine who fell, Joseph can be found on the 1911 census aged 13 which would have made him just 18 in 1916 when he perrished

The register of soldiers’ effects list his father James as the legatee of his effects

The claimant of a dependant’s pension in respect of the brothers James and Joseph is listed as Mr James Rogers (father) born 1854 of 8 Stevenson Street North Ormesby Middlesbrough

Born and enlisted Middlesbrough             
THIEPVAL MEMORIAL                 (Middlesbrough war memorial)  

 

Ray

 

 

Hi Ray, I think something is off with the date of birth because I found a record on the 1939 register of a George Rogers which shows the date of birth 3rd July 1882 with wife Gertrude Gladys Rogers, in the notes it says retired from HM Army service. Not to say that is the same George but from his 1950 Probate it does say " George otherwise known as Gerald", which I also believe to be the same man, as well as the comment left on the Imperial war museum website by his grandaughter.

Thank you for the other information i'll havd a read up when i've finished work today and edit this post to reply. Much appreciated.