Sapper Keith Hays - 13th Field Company Australian Engineers

[Simon Birch]

I need to talk this over with Andy, which I will do tomorrow but perhaps Philip Dunne. I don't think we will be 'targeting' more than one commssioner because if we sent multiple letters each of the recipients may think its someone else's job to reply - if that makes sense. It we don't get any sense from Mr Dunne then we can always try another.

We will be sending an old fashion letter though.

Simon

[jaykayu]

On 03/09/2023 at 19:21, jaykayu said:

Here's my proposed draft letter to the Commissioners for your review & feedback please.

It’s format is one letter to be signed by all researchers who are willing to contribute.

I have included example details of the issues at the end. I think it's necessary to include these otherwise the letter can be dismissed as just hearsay etc.

Six examples of rededication cases with a duration of over 5 years are included. The average duration of all 54 cases that had rededication services, or services arranged, from 8/3/22 to today is 5.4 years. The six examples shown below are just those whose submission dates are known. Using these submission dates, and the case numbers, in turn allow the submission dates of all the other cases to be estimated and thereby also each one's duration.  I think the six with known dates are enough to illustrate the point.

NOTE - I have included the names of forum members and the issue they have posted on GWF. The final version will need everyone's real - not forum names. 

If any researcher would like to add their name to any of the issues listed, or add an extra issue, or add their name to the letter please say

Likewise if anyone would like to withdraw their name and issue they experienced please let me know. PM if you prefer.

All sources of information & data are CWGC unless specified.

Thanks

Jay

 

Dear (CWGC) Commissioner Name

This letter is sent to you in your capacity as Commissioner of the CWGC

It is a complaint about the current poor performance of CWGC when managing cases of missing service personnel from both World Wars, and is sent to you collectively by XXX private researchers around the world whose work identifies the graves of these missing commonwealth servicemen that currently rest in unknown soldiers graves, and those that are not commemorated.

The performance levels of CWGC in specific areas has worsened over the last three years to such an extent that it causes us to collectively contact you as a Commissioner to highlight the issues and suggest ways that CWGC can meet the needs of both the public and researchers like ourselves.  

These issues have been experienced individually by all the researchers below, and are in the following two areas of the CWGC responsibility, 

1. Communicating effectively: Emails, submissions, online lists, enquiries etc to all levels of the CWGC now take months and years to receive a response or be updated, if at all, and as such are outside the CWGC customer charter and the acceptable standard for any proficient organisation. 

2. Administering and facilitating cases for the rededication of unknown graves, in partnership with the MOD, Military branch or their Commonwealth equivalents: The average duration of such cases has increased to over five years, and will increase further because of a growing backlog of over 430 cases, plus an 80% reduction in the number of rededication services occurring over the past six months. This length of time is unacceptable and there has been no signs or communication from the CWGC on any plans to process cases quicker and reduce the backlog of cases under investigation.

(Examples & details of 1&2 are provided below)

We understand that these cases require time by the CWGC and military authorities to both investigate and if proven contact relatives and organise rededication of graves, but previously the average time for this has been three years - not over five - and  the communication was efficient too.

There are still over 500,000 UK and Commonwealth servicemen missing from the First World War, and families still express their hope that they will be found and that they can finally visit the grave of their relative who has been missing for over a century. 

Private researchers like ourselves are the only people actively searching for these servicemen. Our work often requires visits to archives, museums and cemeteries and the average time for one of us to find evidence to prove the location of a missing servicemen’s grave and case is 60 hours.  In comparison, after receiving a case it currently takes CWGC over two years to look at it, after which it still has to be passed to the military authority for review and so it's not surprising a case now takes over five years. 

This consistent lack of communication and excessively long case duration is causing some researchers to completely stop this valuable work that identifies British and Commonwealth missing soldiers - work that is clearly a matter of public interest.

We ask that you urgently raise this at the CWGC so that steps are taken to both improve their communication and speed up the processing of cases back to their previously achieved timings.

We suggest that additional resources to help achieve this efficiently could be provided by extending the current CWGC volunteer program to assist with case communication, administration and initial review. If needed, a similar volunteer program could also provide extra resources to speed up case management at relevant military authorities and any museums they use to review cases. Sponsorship & funding could also be sought to cover any related costs.

Please get in contact with any questions you may have, we are willing to help in any way possible to improve this situation.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely 

Etc.

 

Supporting data

 

Poor communication

Example	Experienced by researcher
Unanswered emails, Twitter & Facebook posts about submitted case progress	Andrew P Cheshire 22 Dickaren Andrew Pugh Simon Birch
Unreturned phone calls, despite promises of a response within 4 days.  No response after calling five different departments in one day.	Andrew Pugh   Andrew Pugh
4 month  delay in supplying a case number for a submitted case - this used to take a week. After submitting a case, no case number has ever been supplied in return.	Andrew P   Andrew Pugh
Unanswered emails about when the online ‘Open Case File’ list will be updated - key in preventing research being duplicated for an existing case	Andrew P Andrew Pugh Cheshire 22

 

Case duration

The following example cases took, or will take, over five years from submission to CWGC to grave rededication ceremony - based on known case submission*  and rededication service dates.

(* source GWF)

 

Serviceman	Case Number	Submission Date*	Rededication Date	Duration
Serjeant Frederick Cardy,	361	5/11/2016	19/5/2022	5 years 6 months
Capt Vivian Clay	352	28/12/2016	21/6/2022	5 years 5 months
Lieutenant Harold Rymer Smith.	418	15/12/2017	23/3/2023	5 years 3 months
Second Lieutenant Alick Aylmore	380	15/5/2017	18/4/2023	5 years 11 months
William Wallace Hutton	381	1/12/2016	24/5/2023	6 years 5 months
Sapper Keith Blackland Lister Hays	544	14/11/2016	16/4/2024	7 years 5 months

 

Increasing case duration

The following reveals that the average case duration times of five years will significantly increase.

• From 8/3/2022 to 8/3/2023, 46 rededication services were held for successful cases.  Since 8/3/2023 there has only been nine rededication services held, a drop of 80%.

• CWGC admitted that cases sent to them in August 2019 still hadn’t been looked at two years & four months later1, and if approved they still need to go to the MOD etc.

• There has been no communication for four years on the progress of cases 632 & 633 that were sent to CWGC in August 20191. As the cases completed since March 2023 were numbered in the 300’s & 400’s and took over 5 years, the backlog indicates that durations will significantly increase.

1 source Jaykayu

 

 

On 03/09/2023 at 19:21, jaykayu said:

Here's my proposed draft letter to the Commissioners for your review & feedback please.

It’s format is one letter to be signed by all researchers who are willing to contribute.

I have included example details of the issues at the end. I think it's necessary to include these otherwise the letter can be dismissed as just hearsay etc.

Six examples of rededication cases with a duration of over 5 years are included. The average duration of all 54 cases that had rededication services, or services arranged, from 8/3/22 to today is 5.4 years. The six examples shown below are just those whose submission dates are known. Using these submission dates, and the case numbers, in turn allow the submission dates of all the other cases to be estimated and thereby also each one's duration.  I think the six with known dates are enough to illustrate the point.

NOTE - I have included the names of forum members and the issue they have posted on GWF. The final version will need everyone's real - not forum names. 

If any researcher would like to add their name to any of the issues listed, or add an extra issue, or add their name to the letter please say

Likewise if anyone would like to withdraw their name and issue they experienced please let me know. PM if you prefer.

All sources of information & data are CWGC unless specified.

Thanks

Jay

 

Dear (CWGC) Commissioner Name

This letter is sent to you in your capacity as Commissioner of the CWGC

It is a complaint about the current poor performance of CWGC when managing cases of missing service personnel from both World Wars, and is sent to you collectively by XXX private researchers around the world whose work identifies the graves of these missing commonwealth servicemen that currently rest in unknown soldiers graves, and those that are not commemorated.

The performance levels of CWGC in specific areas has worsened over the last three years to such an extent that it causes us to collectively contact you as a Commissioner to highlight the issues and suggest ways that CWGC can meet the needs of both the public and researchers like ourselves.  

These issues have been experienced individually by all the researchers below, and are in the following two areas of the CWGC responsibility, 

1. Communicating effectively: Emails, submissions, online lists, enquiries etc to all levels of the CWGC now take months and years to receive a response or be updated, if at all, and as such are outside the CWGC customer charter and the acceptable standard for any proficient organisation. 

2. Administering and facilitating cases for the rededication of unknown graves, in partnership with the MOD, Military branch or their Commonwealth equivalents: The average duration of such cases has increased to over five years, and will increase further because of a growing backlog of over 430 cases, plus an 80% reduction in the number of rededication services occurring over the past six months. This length of time is unacceptable and there has been no signs or communication from the CWGC on any plans to process cases quicker and reduce the backlog of cases under investigation.

(Examples & details of 1&2 are provided below)

We understand that these cases require time by the CWGC and military authorities to both investigate and if proven contact relatives and organise rededication of graves, but previously the average time for this has been three years - not over five - and  the communication was efficient too.

There are still over 500,000 UK and Commonwealth servicemen missing from the First World War, and families still express their hope that they will be found and that they can finally visit the grave of their relative who has been missing for over a century. 

Private researchers like ourselves are the only people actively searching for these servicemen. Our work often requires visits to archives, museums and cemeteries and the average time for one of us to find evidence to prove the location of a missing servicemen’s grave and case is 60 hours.  In comparison, after receiving a case it currently takes CWGC over two years to look at it, after which it still has to be passed to the military authority for review and so it's not surprising a case now takes over five years. 

This consistent lack of communication and excessively long case duration is causing some researchers to completely stop this valuable work that identifies British and Commonwealth missing soldiers - work that is clearly a matter of public interest.

We ask that you urgently raise this at the CWGC so that steps are taken to both improve their communication and speed up the processing of cases back to their previously achieved timings.

We suggest that additional resources to help achieve this efficiently could be provided by extending the current CWGC volunteer program to assist with case communication, administration and initial review. If needed, a similar volunteer program could also provide extra resources to speed up case management at relevant military authorities and any museums they use to review cases. Sponsorship & funding could also be sought to cover any related costs.

Please get in contact with any questions you may have, we are willing to help in any way possible to improve this situation.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely 

Etc.

 

Supporting data

 

Poor communication

Example	Experienced by researcher
Unanswered emails, Twitter & Facebook posts about submitted case progress	Andrew P Cheshire 22 Dickaren Andrew Pugh Simon Birch
Unreturned phone calls, despite promises of a response within 4 days.  No response after calling five different departments in one day.	Andrew Pugh   Andrew Pugh
4 month  delay in supplying a case number for a submitted case - this used to take a week. After submitting a case, no case number has ever been supplied in return.	Andrew P   Andrew Pugh
Unanswered emails about when the online ‘Open Case File’ list will be updated - key in preventing research being duplicated for an existing case	Andrew P Andrew Pugh Cheshire 22

 

Case duration

The following example cases took, or will take, over five years from submission to CWGC to grave rededication ceremony - based on known case submission*  and rededication service dates.

(* source GWF)

 

Serviceman	Case Number	Submission Date*	Rededication Date	Duration
Serjeant Frederick Cardy,	361	5/11/2016	19/5/2022	5 years 6 months
Capt Vivian Clay	352	28/12/2016	21/6/2022	5 years 5 months
Lieutenant Harold Rymer Smith.	418	15/12/2017	23/3/2023	5 years 3 months
Second Lieutenant Alick Aylmore	380	15/5/2017	18/4/2023	5 years 11 months
William Wallace Hutton	381	1/12/2016	24/5/2023	6 years 5 months
Sapper Keith Blackland Lister Hays	544	14/11/2016	16/4/2024	7 years 5 months

 

Increasing case duration

The following reveals that the average case duration times of five years will significantly increase.

• From 8/3/2022 to 8/3/2023, 46 rededication services were held for successful cases.  Since 8/3/2023 there has only been nine rededication services held, a drop of 80%.

• CWGC admitted that cases sent to them in August 2019 still hadn’t been looked at two years & four months later1, and if approved they still need to go to the MOD etc.

• There has been no communication for four years on the progress of cases 632 & 633 that were sent to CWGC in August 20191. As the cases completed since March 2023 were numbered in the 300’s & 400’s and took over 5 years, the backlog indicates that durations will significantly increase.

1 source Jaykayu

 

Update:

Considerable progress is being made with this initiative
At least six researchers have agreed to add their name to the letter, and more may follow.
Collaboration has also started with others who have the same goals
I have deliberately not included any more details such as who and what,  primarily to prevent any advance notice of final letter content or who is contributing (If I was CWGC I would watch the GWF), plus some details have not been cleared for sharing yet.  More will be posted once the letter has been sent etc
If anyone that is already contributing would like more information please PM me and I will share what I can
Thanks

Jay