Gloucestershire Regiment Cap badge, Other Ranks

[max7474]

Only 26 Regular Infantry Regiments had All Gilding metal Economy Badges, although there are plenty of fakes to other Regiments. 

R.Scots (lugged - only one that was)
Queens
Norfolk
Devonshire
Suffolk
E.Yorks
Beds
Leics
Cheshire
RWF
SWB
R.Inn.Fus
E.Lancs
E.Surrey
Sussex
Hants
Dorsetshire
S.Lancs
Welsh
Essex
Northants
KOYLI
Middx
N.Staffs
Leinster
R.Munster.Fus

[max7474]

On 30/07/2023 at 11:44, FROGSMILE said:

1st City of Bristol Volunteer Battalion green tunics with green facings and black badges and buttons plus special rifles designation.  Became 4th TF Battalion in 1908 carrying forward black badges with blank scrolls.

2nd Volunteer Battalion green tunics with red facings and black insignia similar to 60th Rifles (pouch belt plates silver though).  Became 5th TF Battalion with silver badges and blank scrolls adopted.  A special feature was woven cloth shoulder titles in 60th Rifles style colouration.

3rd Volunteer Battalion most unusual having adopted khaki tunics with red facings and tall slouch hats following the Boer War, though cap badges were silver.  See photo below.  Became 6th TF Battalion with silver badges and blank scrolls adopted.

 I don’t have the list of SA honours you mentioned but forum friend @Waggoner maybe has it or will probably know someone who does.

 

yet in the photos you have  the 1 VB is in wm and 2 VB in BB - did Westlake mix the battalions up?

[FROGSMILE]

38 minutes ago, max7474 said:

yet in the photos you have  the 1 VB is in wm and 2 VB in BB - did Westlake mix the battalions up?

 No I don’t think so, only the black cross is a VB badge, the others predates VBs.  Westlake has studied and published numerous books on the VF/TF and he seems to be both accurate and consistent.  The same details are quoted by other, earlier authors covering the VF too.

Edited 3 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[max7474]

An interesting photo of the Glosters 2VB in their green uniforms with both black and  possibly 3 white metal badges!

Edited 8 October , 2023 by max7474

[FROGSMILE]

14 hours ago, max7474 said:

An interesting photo of the Glosters 2VB in their green uniforms with both black and  possibly 3 white metal badges!

Transitional I think, as those with white metal badges seem to have different headdress, either glengarry or Torin cap, although I can’t quite make out which.  The wm badges look circular to me, do they to you?  If so they’re probably helmet plate centres.  The black badges seem to be on Austrian pattern field service caps, as the buttons on them can be discerned. As such the badges are probably collar type as were commonly worn initially on FSC.

Edited 9 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[max7474]

17 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

Transitional I think, as those with white metal badges seem to have different headdress, either glengarry or Torin cap, although I can’t quite make out which.  The wm badges look circular to me, do they to you?  If so they’re probably helmet plate centres.  The black badges seem to be on Austrian pattern field service caps, as the buttons on them can be discerned. As such the badges are probably collar type as commonly worn initially on FSC.

Yes I agree.  But that does rather raise the question why they dropped their rifle lineage in 1908 if Westlake is correct?  Either way i am struggling to find any period photos of the black cap badge in use.  Every 4th Battalion one I can find has w/m badges on their khaki caps.  Somewhere there may be a post 1908-14 green dress uniform with green hats.

[FROGSMILE]

41 minutes ago, max7474 said:

Yes I agree.  But that does rather raise the question why they dropped their rifle lineage in 1908 if Westlake is correct?  Either way i am struggling to find any period photos of the black cap badge in use.  Every 4th Battalion one I can find has w/m badges on their khaki caps.  Somewhere there may be a post 1908-14 green dress uniform with green hats.

I cannot add much Max, other than that perhaps seeing black collar badges on headdress swayed Westlake’s perceptions at the time he wrote the book.  He’s still alive and has recently published a swathe of new books.  I can only suggest you contact him.  Given the complexity and very narrow focus of the matter concerned this forum isn’t really the place to find the answers you seek.

P.S. I think a lot of TF battalions were probably pressured to drop aspects of their rifle’s heritage after 1908 because they weren’t really conducive to coherence with their parent regular unit if it was of scarlet clad tradition as the majority were.

N.B.  I too cannot find any WW1 period photos of blackened Gloucestershire Regiment cap badges, which implies they were either discontinued between 1908 and 1914, or worn only on the coloured forage cap.  Furthermore, blackened badges generally means blackened buttons too and I cannot find them in a photo either.

Edited 9 October , 2023 by FROGSMILE