Help locating a point from a trench map

[walt71]

I am trying to identify the modern location of a reference point from a trench map, as described in the images I attached from a Canadian Expeditionary Force personnel file. I know the grave is no longer there, but I would like to visit the location or as close by as possible.

Thank you in advance for any assistance you can provide.

Edited 24 June by walt71
Adding detail

[WhiteStarLine]

Hi Walt, welcome to the forum.

We can help you a bit more if you gives us the name of the soldier and the date of death.  That way we can do some cross-checking on both the soldier and the map itself.  Until you do that, anything is an interpretation given that the reference is non-standard and the date is unknown.

Here is my guess:  The handwritten burial note uses an incorrect map notation (or by strange coincidence the grave row and plot itself is actually AD.9D).

Anyone on the forum can use TrenchMapper from The Western Front Association free of charge.  TrenchMapper has 32, 1:40,000 maps of which 6 are combined sheets.  For example, here is a 1915 map with an almost identical description

Name: Bethune, La Bassee, Pont a Vendin
Sheet: 36A SE & 36 SW & 36B NE & 36C NW Combined sheet
Scale: 1:40,000. Edition: Second Edition 1915

On this map the letter n in Givenchy-lès-la-Bassée lies within the Great War reference A.9D (we write it as 44a.A.9.d).  If this is the location you want, then the modern address to go to is returned by TrenchMapper.

You are at 50.527561, 2.759845
Givenchy-lès-la-Bassée, Béthune, Pas-de-Calais, Hauts-de-France, Metropolitan France, 62149, France
Great War reference 44a.A.9.d.16.07

The Givenchy-les-la-Bassee Communal Cemetery (green pin) is very close by and also in 44a.A.9.d.

[walt71]

Thank you for your help!

His name is Allan McLean Davidson and he was killed on June 16, 1915.

[WhiteStarLine]

Cheers, Walt, that means that the 1915 map above was a good fit.  Use the image below as a rough guide and you will be able to stand in the area I think he was originally buried in.  Don't get fixated on the pins and lines - the essential location is the 'n' in Givenchy and we're in that vicinity.  All open field in 1915.  Click to enlarge image.

[walt71]

Amazing! Thank you again. This is incredibly helpful.

[brianmorris547]

Walt

This recent thread deals with Canadians at The Duck's Bill on 15/06/1915. Howard has posted some detailed maps. https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/228095-givenchy-the-ducks-bill/#comment-3217287

 

A 9 d would make more sense, see this map from the WD of 21 Infantry Brigade of 7 Div. Courtesy TNA/Ancestry WO 95/1228.

Brian

Edited 26 June by brianmorris547
typo

[walt71]

Thanks, Brian. Just coming back to this now, as I'm headed to France next month.

So based on your map, the location would be slightly west-northwest of the point on WhiteStarLine's map?

[brianmorris547]

On 10/10/2023 at 13:22, walt71 said:

Thanks, Brian. Just coming back to this now, as I'm headed to France next month.

So based on your map, the location would be slightly west-northwest of the point on WhiteStarLine's map?

Difficult to say.

I have only one 1:40 000 Bethune map in my 1915 index and that is in the May 1915 WD of 47 Div HQ GS. I have cropped it to show where the N in Givenchy is in A 9 d. More or less where Bill posted on 24/06. There are other 1:40 000 maps of Merville La Bassee and this is one, also cropped, is from the February 1915 WD of 5 Infantry Brigade, 2 Div. EDIT By more or less I mean Bob On.

TNA/Ancestry WO 95/2697 (47 Div) and WO 95/1343 (5 IB).

You will need the IGN 1:25 000 no 2405 E when you get to France

Have a good trip.

Brian

Edited 13 October by brianmorris547

[walt71]

Thanks, Brian. I really appreciate the help!