Seeking Information on Two of My Great Uncles

[PRC]

@Lynn Paton

I’ve never had much joy in the past working out how to search the National Archive series WO161 for the interviews with returning prisoners – and to be honest I’m still not much the wiser

But a document sourced from there came up in another recent thread and so I thought I’d give it a try. I was reduced to scrolling through, but there are a number relating to men captured from the units of the 84^th Brigade – 1^st Suffolks, 1^st Monmouths, 2^nd Cheshire and 12^th Londons, as well as the 2^nd Northumberland Fusiliers. Unfortunately the two Northumberland Fusiliers men whose interview I downloaded both were wounded and so almost certainly their subsequent path into captivity was different from Michael.

The one’s I identified as potentially of interest were:-

Private 2281 John Lawrence, 1^st Monmouthshire Regiment captured 8^th May 1915. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9210473

Private 6636 George Boyce, 1^st Suffolk Regiment captured 8^th May 1915. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9210489

Rifleman 2473 Sydney Beckett, 12^th London Rifle Brigade captured 8^th May 1915. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9210492

Private 2231 Ray Melville, 1^st Monmouthshire Regiment captured 8^th May 1915. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9210558

Private 16542 Jesse Langley, 1^st Suffolk Regiment captured 8^th May 1915. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9210881

Private 10632 Harry Jackson, 2^nd Cheshire Regiment, captured 8^th May 1915. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9211927

Lance Corporal 12852 Geoffrey Smith, 1^st Suffolk Regiment, captured 8^th May 1915. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9211951

Private 37597 E. Peters, Northumberland Fusiliers, captured 8^th May 1915. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9211964

Private 2996 Henry George Hughes, 2^nd Northumberland Fusiliers, captured 8^th May 1915. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C9212464

There may well be more – I only looked at the first 500 and even within that there were reports from other men serving with the same units whose report had been catalogued as covering the period “January 1914 to December 1918”.

Michael may have been lucky to be captured alive if this interview with Private 2996 Henry George Hughes is anything to go by

 

 

Image courtesy the National Archive.

Henry George Hughes is in that Official Casualty List from The Times that I posted previously, listed as one of the missing of the 2^nd Battalion.

Hope that is of interests and that others with more experience in this area can step in and help us both

Cheers,
Peter

[Lynn Paton]

Thanks so much Peter,  will look forward to looking into these tonight.

Kind regards Lynn 

[RussT]

Many thanks for the very kind donation Lynn - this will come in very handy in helping to keep the site running for the benefit of all.

Regards

Russ

[Lynn Paton]

Your very welcome Russ, I will post soon with regards to my other great uncle William,  once I have Michael's story in order. I have very little info on William just his name and number but I'm sure your up for the challenge ***. You have been such a great help, as has Peter. And, of course I will donate further for the excellent work you do.

Kind regards Lynn 

[KizmeRD]

Lynn, not sure how much you already know about ‘Kriegsgefangenenlager Geißen’, but erection of the camp began in October 1914 and comprised of large wooden huts (see photo below). The biggest contingent of PoW’s were French followed by a very sizeable number of British prisoners too - during the course of the war Gießen held up to 26,000 PoW’s, some of whom were let out to work on local  farms.

MB

 

Edited 9 June , 2023 by KizmeRD

[Lynn Paton]

Thankyou for sharing the information,  do we know exactly where it was erected? Does the ground remain sacred? Possibly all built over now but it would be worth a visit when I go out there in November. 

Kind regards Lynn 

[KizmeRD]

The camp was a couple of miles east of the town centre and stood on a hill flanked on one side by Grünburgerstr. and on the other by Philosophenwald (a pine-wood).

But I’m afraid that there’s nothing ‘sacred’ about a former WW1 PoW Camp, so I wouldn’t expect much (if anything) remains nowadays. - However since I live about an hour and a half’s drive away, and I’m not acquainted with the locality, I could well be wrong.

MB

Edited 9 June , 2023 by KizmeRD

[Lynn Paton]

Thanks Kizme, I think I may possibly visit the location anyway,  it would be nice just to connect spiritually and pay respects. There were a great many men lost their lives there, and suffered physically and emotionally. Thankyou for your direction of the area, I'm sure I may find some more information once I get there, hopefully town libraries, information centre etc. Here's hoping anyway. Thankyou for your information, its appreciated. 

Lynn

[RussT]

If you can manage a bit of German, this looks good ....

Gefangen im Krieg: Gießen 1914–1919 : Universitätsstadt Gießen, Der Magistrat, Brake, Ludwig, Ehlers, Eckhard, Thimm, Utz: Amazon.de: Books

Russ

[KizmeRD]

From all accounts I’ve read, there does not seem to have been any systemic abuse of the prisoners at Gießen during the period of the war. Obviously it was not an ideal existence for the men involved, but their captivity appears to have been somewhat tolerable under the circumstances and bearing in mind all that was going on.

Lynn, what did your Great Uncle die of? (Presumably Spanish Flu pandemic).

MB

[PRC]

On 06/06/2023 at 11:41, PRC said:

2. A report from the Germans dated 26th February 1919 and given ICRC reference PA 42810 which doesn't given unit details, records that he had died but with no date and had the information coming from the camp at Giessen. Cause of death was "Infolge Lungenentzundung" which Google translate shows as "As a result of pneumonia". https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/4361843/3/2/

3. A report from the Germans dated 12th February 1919 and given ICRC reference PA 42736 where place of death looks like "Helenen-Stift zu Hachenburg"

Lynn,

I don't know if he'd been put out to work at Hachenburg or whether he was being moved back towards the UK and that was as far as he got. From cases I looked at in the past I got the impression that it was the onset of pneumonia alongside Spanish Flu that frequently proved fatal. Given how far he had travelled westwards I suspect his body wasn't then returned to Giessen but buried locally and then subsequently moved to Cologne.

Image courtesy Google Maps.

Cheers,
Peter

[KizmeRD]

Helenenstift, Hachenburg wasa small Catholic run hospital, since pulled down and now the site of a Caritas Old People’s Home.

Likely your Great Uncle had been working on a nearby farm.

MB