Why would a designated rank on War Grave Memorial differ from one on Medal and Award Rolls?

[Maggiemay]

Hello, I'd be grateful if anyone could please help me solve this, I must be missing something.

My gt. uncle was killed in action 29.5.1915 at Gallipoli. He was Thomas Barnett Reg. No. 1347 1/7th Manchester Regiment and is commemorated on the Helles Memorial, where his inscription gives him the rank of L/Corporal.

The medal card index shows him receiving all three of his medals as a Private. The Medal Rolls show both British War and Victory awarded also with rank of Pte., however the Roll for award of 1914/15 Star were originally awarded him as L/Corporal but this was crossed out and changed to Pte.

I had wondered whether he may have been asked to temporarily step up to replace a dead comrade during hostilities but was never officially promoted, but surely the C.W.G.C. would have the correct information? 

I would appreciate any help you can offer.

Margaret

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Maggiemay said:

Hello, I'd be grateful if anyone could please help me solve this, I must be missing something.

My gt. uncle was killed in action 29.5.1915 at Gallipoli. He was Thomas Barnett Reg. No. 1347 1/7th Manchester Regiment and is commemorated on the Helles Memorial, where his inscription gives him the rank of L/Corporal.

The medal card index shows him receiving all three of his medals as a Private. The Medal Rolls show both British War and Victory awarded also with rank of Pte., however the Roll for award of 1914/15 Star were originally awarded him as L/Corporal but this was crossed out and changed to Pte.

I had wondered whether he may have been asked to temporarily step up to replace a dead comrade during hostilities but was never officially promoted, but surely the C.W.G.C. would have the correct information? 

Margaret, Welcome to GWF.

For the Army / Medal Office = At that time [during the war] Lance Corporal was an appointment [often temporary - granted by his Commanding Officer, perhaps as a sort of trial step up before perhaps becoming Corporal] for a Private rather than a substantive rank [as it became in later years] - and thus medals would be impressed as Pte. [to avoid complaints and returns of medals for alteration I believe the Medal Office actually issued a paper slip with medals so as to explain this]

The I/CWGC seem not to have followed this convention and use Lance Corporal / L.Cpl, if appropriate at the time of his death - a different law unto themselves it seems - personally I like/prefer CWGC's approach for time of death/commemoration purposes.

M

Edit: Found that slip

Image thanks to @Andrew Upton in a similar thread https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/272653-would-lance-sergeant-appear-on-a-medal-inscription/#comment-2771998

 

Edited 18 March , 2023 by Matlock1418
Edit

[Maggiemay]

Thank you so much M for the welcome and the quick reply. I have followed this Forum for some time now before venturing to post. I now understand how this apparent contradiction has occurred. I have no idea where the medals are and so could not check for the rank inscription on the rim.

Thomas's brother was killed three months afterwards also at Gallipoli, the Rolls for his awards are exactly the same but Index Card has him as L/Cpl with a cross and four dots for the BWM and VM. They were from a family of five brothers, two Northumberland Fusiliers, one of whom was Reserve transferred to 1st Btn, wounded Western Front, promoted Sgt. and after hospitalisation trans to North Staffs 1st Garrison duties. The second NF was at Mons, then captured at Frameries and spent time in PoW camp in Sennelager, Germany before being transferred to internment in Holland per the bilateral agreement of 1917 (I.C.R.C. Archives).  He was repatriated in 1918 and awarded the Mons Star with Clasp and Rose (just as my Cameronian Rifles maternal grandfather was).  Thomas and his brother KIA were the two youngest. The fifth, my grandfather applied to enlist but was turned down on more than one occasion according to Thomas's last letter home, and I know why - he was an engineer working for Babcock & Wilcox, the company who were of great importance in wartime due to their marine boilers powering Naval destroyers and emergency fleets. 'A tale of five brothers'.

I just add this because, understanding nothing military, I have navigated my way around for the past few years, in order to record the experiences of men in my family who deserve their stories told for the younger generations who, if not right now, will at some time hopefully appreciate.  Lest we forget 

P.S. Again, many thanks and I now have the courage to post again when needing help!

Regards, Margaret

[Maggiemay]

Thanks M,

I can now quote the Medal Office explanation, having seen it and I agree with you re CWGC's way of seeing it. After all, even if temporary, if the rank came with a higher responsibility and weight of tasks at the time of death, why not, seems only fitting.

Sleep calls, enjoy the rest of the w/end yourself, Margaret

 

[Matlock1418]

LCpl wore the single 'rank' chevron on each arm - but as said, it was an appointment.

Happy to have helped

M