Help with identifying a cap badge

[pioneecorps]

Any help me with identifying this cap badge.

His name, Dan Simpson.

Gerwyn

 

 

[Bob Davies]

On 16/03/2023 at 21:26, pioneecorps said:

Any help me with identifying this cap badge.

His name, Dan Simpson.

Gerwyn

 

 

Hello Gerwyn, I think we may need a clearer picture, or some more information about him, such as where he lived, age etc. From the shape it could be numerous regiments so all  would be complete guesses. Regards, Bob. Edit; The only badge I can find that has the same overall shape is from the Derbyshire Yeomanry. Picture Courtesy of British Military Badges.

Edited 18 March , 2023 by Bob Davies

[pioneecorps]

14 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

Hello Gerwyn, I think we may need a clearer picture, or some more information about him, such as where he lived, age etc. From the shape it could be numerous regiments so all  would be complete guesses. Regards, Bob. Edit; The only badge I can find that has the same overall shape is from the Derbyshire Yeomanry. Picture Courtesy of British Military Badges.

Hi Bob

Thank you for replying to my request.

The photo which was taken off my computer screen, came from another non military related forum which I'm a member of, which as a general chat thread, the gentleman on there posted the photo of his great uncle.

He didn't ask for any help, but I thought I would put it to the members of  the GWF to see if anyone could tell me.

I put his name Dan Simpson, Dan could be short for Daniel.

The cap badge of the Derbyshire Yeomanry, could well be right.

I have sent a PM to the gentleman, asking if he knew his great uncle regiment, waiting a reply.

Thank you again for your kind help.

Regards

Gerwyn

[pioneecorps]

48 minutes ago, pioneecorps said:

Hi Bob

Thank you for replying to my request.

The photo which was taken off my computer screen, came from another non military related forum which I'm a member of, which as a general chat thread, the gentleman on there posted the photo of his great uncle.

He didn't ask for any help, but I thought I would put it to the members of  the GWF to see if anyone could tell me.

I put his name Dan Simpson, Dan could be short for Daniel.

The cap badge of the Derbyshire Yeomanry, could well be right.

I have sent a PM to the gentleman, asking if he knew his great uncle regiment, waiting a reply.

Thank you again for your kind help.

Regards

Gerwyn

Hi Bob

I just had a reply from the gentleman, he thinks, he was with the South Irish Horse, and he died but no documents stating this, the day before the end of the War.

What your feelings on the cap badge.

Regards

Gerwyn

 

[Bob Davies]

16 minutes ago, pioneecorps said:

Hi Bob

I just had a reply from the gentleman, he thinks, he was with the South Irish Horse, and he died but no documents stating this, the day before the end of the War.

What your feelings on the cap badge.

Regards

Gerwyn

 

Hi Gerwyn, yes that fits the blurred shape we have to go on. Looking at the chap to our left, his badge looks more rounded. However If some one says South Irish Horse, then it probably is. I will have a look on ancestry later and see what comes up. Cheers, Bob.

[pioneecorps]

18 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

Hi Gerwyn, yes that fits the blurred shape we have to go on. Looking at the chap to our left, his badge looks more rounded. However If some one says South Irish Horse, then it probably is. I will have a look on ancestry later and see what comes up. Cheers, Bob.

Hi Bob

Thank you again for your kind help.

Confusing, I just put his name in the CWGC search, and it did come up with the surnames Simpson, but no one in the North Irish Horse.

Regards

Gerwyn

[6RRF]

Yes, I'd agree that the blurred shape in the picture would fit the tri-lobate [now there's a big word for a Sunday afternoon] shape for the South Irish Horse

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, pioneecorps said:

Hi Bob

I just had a reply from the gentleman, he thinks, he was with the South Irish Horse, and he died but no documents stating this, the day before the end of the War.

What your feelings on the cap badge.

Regards

Gerwyn

 

If he was South Irish Horse (as yet uncorroborated) then forum member @vaughwill very likely have his details, as he has studied that regiment in depth and has a database of known members.

Edited 19 March , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[pioneecorps]

32 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

If he was South Irish Horse (as yet uncorroborated) then forum member @vaughwill very likely have his details, as he has studied that regiment in depth and has a database of known members.

Hi FROGSMILE

Than your for your help, do you think I should PM @Vaugh and ask for any information he has, or wait to see if @vaugh will reply.

Kind regards.

Gerwyn

[vaugh]

Hi,

Well OK, lets start with the name I have for the man in the photograph. I have him as Daniel Shanahan and here is what I have on him:

(Edit to add) 
D SHANAHAN 11 January 1916 PRIVATE 884 South Irish Horse Buried at CITE BONJEAN MILITARY CEMETERY, ARMENTIERES IX. D. 100. France

Daniel was born on the 24th May 1893 at 25 Roman Street, Cork. Patrick Shanahan and Mary Bridget Scannell, his parents were married at the RC Cathedral Cork on the 13th September 1892. By 1901 the family of six is living on Upper John Street, Patrick senior is noted as a brewery hand and was born around 1870 in Castleisland in Kerry. Jump forward to 1911 and the family has grown in size, Pat is now a water inspector and Mary or Bridget as she was sometimes known, have had eight children, Daniel the oldest is living elsewhere, the rest of the family are still in Upper John Street where we have, Anne born May 1895, Mary Bridget born June 1897, Edmond or Edward born December 1899, Patrick born May 1902, Margaret born July 1904, Christina born December 1906 and the youngest John Joseph born on the 16th November 1908. Bridget Scannell a blind woman, Mary's mother is living with them and the house is shared with another family.

Daniel joined the South Irish Horse in Mallow as Private 884 on the 26th January 1914. He went overseas on the 11th September 1915 with 'A' Squadron SIH and was killed in action at Armentieres whilst serving with a catapult battery, one other man Private 1277 Allan Wasson was wounded, thankfully Allan recovered and was finally discharged after the war on the 15th April 1919.

A few references to Daniel:
Government genealogy site, free login required. Daniel Shanahan birth register entry.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02298/1862044.pdf

Ireland, Census, 1901. Upper John Street (North West Ward, Cork)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/North_West_Ward/Upper_John_Street/1109204/

Ireland, Census, 1911. South Mall (Cork No. 6 Urban, Cork)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__6_Urban/South_Mall/394318/

Commonwealth War Graves Commission site, Daniel Shanahan
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/277306/D SHANAHAN/

Billion Grave site: Daniel Shanahan
https://billiongraves.com/grave/D-Shanahan/18063487

Find a Grave site, Daniel Shanahan
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/15290939/d-shanahan

Note on the side of the war diary reads.

I would point out that having 1, Officer, 16, men already on catapult battery leaves 18 horses and saddles to be looked after by rest of Sqn and one troop already on police duty. The men remaining have little else to do but stables and exercise, all their time being taken up in this. N.C.F. (Noel Charles Furlong, Major, 'A' Sqn leader)

Edited 19 March , 2023 by vaugh

[pioneecorps]

Hi Doug

Thank you for your kind information, no wonder I couldn't find him in CWGC

Am I right in thinking, the gentleman who posted the photo, his name was Dan Simpson, it was from his mothers side of his family.

I will check this with him.

Kind regards

Gerwyn

 

[vaugh]

Hi Gerwyn,

Sadly I don't have any further notes on Daniel or where the photo came from, suffice to say it would have been early in my research journey and i was pretty lax with note keeping at that time. All I have is the photograph linked to Daniel Shanahan. Daniel's sisters were Anne b 1895, Mary Bridget b 1897, Margaret b 1904 and Christina b 1906. So I presume one of these women would be Dan Simpson's relative.

Cheers
Doug

[Bob Davies]

31 minutes ago, vaugh said:

Hi Gerwyn,

Sadly I don't have any further notes on Daniel or where the photo came from, suffice to say it would have been early in my research journey and i was pretty lax with note keeping at that time. All I have is the photograph linked to Daniel Shanahan. Daniel's sisters were Anne b 1895, Mary Bridget b 1897, Margaret b 1904 and Christina b 1906. So I presume one of these women would be Dan Simpson's relative.

Cheers
Doug

I can find 884 Daniel Shanahan  on Ancestry but no link to a name 'Simpson' is easily found. Thanks for coming to the rescue Doug, as summoned by our learned Forum Pal @FROGSMILE  Cheers to all, Bob.

[vaugh]

You're most welcome, always a pleasure to help, especially where the South Irish Horse is concerned. 

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, vaugh said:

Hi,

Well OK, lets start with the name I have for the man in the photograph. I have him as Daniel Shanahan and here is what I have on him:

(Edit to add) 
D SHANAHAN 11 January 1916 PRIVATE 884 South Irish Horse Buried at CITE BONJEAN MILITARY CEMETERY, ARMENTIERES IX. D. 100. France

Daniel was born on the 24th May 1893 at 25 Roman Street, Cork. Patrick Shanahan and Mary Bridget Scannell, his parents were married at the RC Cathedral Cork on the 13th September 1892. By 1901 the family of six is living on Upper John Street, Patrick senior is noted as a brewery hand and was born around 1870 in Castleisland in Kerry. Jump forward to 1911 and the family has grown in size, Pat is now a water inspector and Mary or Bridget as she was sometimes known, have had eight children, Daniel the oldest is living elsewhere, the rest of the family are still in Upper John Street where we have, Anne born May 1895, Mary Bridget born June 1897, Edmond or Edward born December 1899, Patrick born May 1902, Margaret born July 1904, Christina born December 1906 and the youngest John Joseph born on the 16th November 1908. Bridget Scannell a blind woman, Mary's mother is living with them and the house is shared with another family.

Daniel joined the South Irish Horse in Mallow as Private 884 on the 26th January 1914. He went overseas on the 11th September 1915 with 'A' Squadron SIH and was killed in action at Armentieres whilst serving with a catapult battery, one other man Private 1277 Allan Wasson was wounded, thankfully Allan recovered and was finally discharged after the war on the 15th April 1919.

A few references to Daniel:
Government genealogy site, free login required. Daniel Shanahan birth register entry.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1893/02298/1862044.pdf

Ireland, Census, 1901. Upper John Street (North West Ward, Cork)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Cork/North_West_Ward/Upper_John_Street/1109204/

Ireland, Census, 1911. South Mall (Cork No. 6 Urban, Cork)
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Cork/Cork_No__6_Urban/South_Mall/394318/

Commonwealth War Graves Commission site, Daniel Shanahan
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/277306/D SHANAHAN/

Billion Grave site: Daniel Shanahan
https://billiongraves.com/grave/D-Shanahan/18063487

Find a Grave site, Daniel Shanahan
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/15290939/d-shanahan

Note on the side of the war diary reads.

I would point out that having 1, Officer, 16, men already on catapult battery leaves 18 horses and saddles to be looked after by rest of Sqn and one troop already on police duty. The men remaining have little else to do but stables and exercise, all their time being taken up in this. N.C.F. (Noel Charles Furlong, Major, 'A' Sqn leader)

Thank you for such a prompt and thorough reply, as per usual you exceeded what expectations I had.  I knew that if anyone could shine some light on the matter it would be you Doug.

[vaugh]

7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Thank you for such a prompt and thorough reply, as per usual you exceeded what expectations I had.  I knew that if anyone could shine some light on the matter it would be you Doug.

[vaugh]

Hi everyone,
I've found my source for the copy of the photograph I posted above, it was posted on here back in 2018 by a 'Guest'

This is the post 'Guest' was commenting upon: 

 

[pioneecorps]

2 hours ago, vaugh said:

Hi Gerwyn,

Sadly I don't have any further notes on Daniel or where the photo came from, suffice to say it would have been early in my research journey and i was pretty lax with note keeping at that time. All I have is the photograph linked to Daniel Shanahan. Daniel's sisters were Anne b 1895, Mary Bridget b 1897, Margaret b 1904 and Christina b 1906. So I presume one of these women would be Dan Simpson's relative.

Cheers
Doug

Hi Doug

Thank you again for your kind help I did get in touch Dan Simpson, and he said that there were two Daniel Shanahan, one died serving with the Machinegun corps.

Kind regards

Gerwyn

2 hours ago, Bob Davies said:

I can find 884 Daniel Shanahan  on Ancestry but no link to a name 'Simpson' is easily found. Thanks for coming to the rescue Doug, as summoned by our learned Forum Pal @FROGSMILE  Cheers to all, Bob.

Hi Bob

Thank you for your kind help.

Regards

Gerwyn

[vaugh]

7 minutes ago, pioneecorps said:

Thank you again for your kind help I did get in touch Dan Simpson, and he said that there were two Daniel Shanahan, one died serving with the Machinegun corps.

Indeed, the other D Shanahan died on the 21st December 1918 and was buried at Douglas RC cemetery in the Parish of Carrigaline County Cork Ireland. So fits in with the information that the man Dan was looking for died after the end of the war, however the photograph is of an SIH man and the other D Shanahan died on the 11th January 1916.

There's always a conundrum included with these things.

[pioneecorps]

38 minutes ago, vaugh said:

Indeed, the other D Shanahan died on the 21st December 1918 and was buried at Douglas RC cemetery in the Parish of Carrigaline County Cork Ireland. So fits in with the information that the man Dan was looking for died after the end of the war, however the photograph is of an SIH man and the other D Shanahan died on the 11th January 1916.

There's always a conundrum included with these things.

Hi Doug

Dan Simpson on my other forum said, Margaret was me Dads mam, my gran.

Kind regards

Gerwyn

[pioneecorps]

4 minutes ago, pioneecorps said:

Hi Doug

Dan Simpson on my other forum said, Margaret was me Dads mam, my gran.

Kind regards

Gerwyn

He also said, he could have been the one that posted the photo in 2007.

[pioneecorps]

16 hours ago, vaugh said:

Indeed, the other D Shanahan died on the 21st December 1918 and was buried at Douglas RC cemetery in the Parish of Carrigaline County Cork Ireland. So fits in with the information that the man Dan was looking for died after the end of the war, however the photograph is of an SIH man and the other D Shanahan died on the 11th January 1916.

There's always a conundrum included with these things.

Hi Doug

Dan posted me this.

Sorry about the poor quality of the photos.

He did say he would scan it, if needed but even then, I would have to take them in three photos.

is this of any interest to you.

Regards

Gerwyn

Gerwyn

 

[vaugh]

1 hour ago, pioneecorps said:

Hi Doug

Dan posted me this.

Sorry about the poor quality of the photos.

He did say he would scan it, if needed but even then, I would have to take them in three photos.

is this of any interest to you.

Regards

Gerwyn

Hi Gerwyn,

That's great, please pass on my thanks to Dan and there's no need to scan them, they are quite readable as they are and of great interest to me.
It would be nice to know the source of the information, I'm presuming it's a booklet detailing the WWI exploits of Cork men.

The AV Fitzherbert mentioned in the second letter is Arnold Vessey Fitzherbert MC Capt SIH, he died in 1922, his grave can be found here: https://www.from-ireland.net/abbeyleix-church-of-ireland-gravestones/attachment/fitzherbert-1-close-2/
His MC gazetted in issue 30111 page 5479, dated 4th June 1917.

[pioneecorps]

1 hour ago, vaugh said:

Hi Gerwyn,

That's great, please pass on my thanks to Dan and there's no need to scan them, they are quite readable as they are and of great interest to me.
It would be nice to know the source of the information, I'm presuming it's a booklet detailing the WWI exploits of Cork men.

The AV Fitzherbert mentioned in the second letter is Arnold Vessey Fitzherbert MC Capt SIH, he died in 1922, his grave can be found here: https://www.from-ireland.net/abbeyleix-church-of-ireland-gravestones/attachment/fitzherbert-1-close-2/
His MC gazetted in issue 30111 page 5479, dated 4th June 1917.

Hi Doug

Dan thanks you for all the information you give him on his family, things he never knew.

The information,, Dan said: I got from his niece in the USA, I will enquier more.

Kind regards.

Gerwyn

[Bob Davies]

20 hours ago, pioneecorps said:

Hi Doug

Thank you again for your kind help I did get in touch Dan Simpson, and he said that there were two Daniel Shanahan, one died serving with the Machinegun corps.

Kind regards

Gerwyn

Hi Bob

Thank you for your kind help.

Regards

Gerwyn

Hi Gerwyn and Doug, happy to help a bit I am glad you are getting to the bottom of it, if you need more, say from ancestry give me a shout. Regards, Bob.