stephen binks Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 I am researching the German advance against the 27th Division in April and May 1915. I have a trench map showing a trench dug on the west bank of the lake. I wondered if the lake had water in, why they would construct a trench when the water would be the perfect barrier to frontal assault Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 Some aerial photos I have seen of the area certainly seemed to suggest that the lake contained water. Perhaps the edge of the lake provided observation over a piece of ground not given elsewhere, which is why it was entrenched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 Hi stephen Prior to the 8th May the 27th Div's front line ran along the Bellewaarde Ridge east of the lake as you may know. The trench on the west bank was more a trench for shelter more then a defence line I would say, there was a Battalion H.Q. near by. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Heyvaert Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 Yes, the lake did contain water. Trenches in the German position of the Hooge-Stellung (running more or less from the Menin-road through the 'finger-stellung' to Eclusette, in front of the lake), were considered some of the worst in the area. Even during the summer months of june and juli, the German regiment from Strazburg that held the sector reported a complete lack of decent shelters (only battalion hq's were more or less fire-proof) and constant water problems, in the mid of summer. Trenches flooded constantly, as did mine-shafts. regards, Bert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsturm Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 Are there photos of the area at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 I have a 1916 map showing the Lake if you want a scan. Aye Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 You'll find snippets from 3 (British) trench-maps showing Bellewaarde Lake in 1916 and 1917 by clicking HERE. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 2 April , 2005 Share Posted 2 April , 2005 Thanks for the link Dave. Is this something you've just recently published, or have I missed the forest for the trees all this time? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 3 April , 2005 Share Posted 3 April , 2005 Thanks for the link Dave. Is this something you've just recently published, or have I missed the forest for the trees all this time? Andy <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's new, Andy. Just a little something I "knocked together" during the forum shutdown. I thought that I'd save all my trenchmap scans that I've done on the forum into this one location, a sort of "Mini trenchmap archive" and save on Chris' bandwidth allowance. I'll also be (possibly) updating this page every time I scan a map for my own off-forum use, so expect additions every few days or so. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landsturm Posted 3 April , 2005 Share Posted 3 April , 2005 "Idiot Trench" and "Idiot Avenue" in the north-west and westside of the lake... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 3 April , 2005 Share Posted 3 April , 2005 Hi stephen After looking through more of my notes on the 27th Div. (my interest lies in 2/K.S.L.I.), I noticed that the trench on the west side of the lake became the 27th Div.'s front line on the 10th May after the front line trenches east of the lake had been shelled to bits and nolonger holdable. This trench later became the German third line after British line fell back to beyond Y Wood. Annette P.S. Dave's map of Bellewaarde Lake does not show the 27th Div.'s trench on west side of Lake dating from May 1915, I would say it was abandoned as un-useable by 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 3 April , 2005 Share Posted 3 April , 2005 A bit later, the Germans used Bellewaarde Lake to drain the water from their trenches to it after they had lowered the water level considerably by draining that water towards the lower British trenches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen binks Posted 3 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2005 Thanks to all forum members responses. Regards Steve Binks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen binks Posted 3 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2005 Hi stephen Prior to the 8th May the 27th Div's front line ran along the Bellewaarde Ridge east of the lake as you may know. The trench on the west bank was more a trench for shelter more then a defence line I would say, there was a Battalion H.Q. near by. Annette <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would be interested in any information you have on the 2/KSLI. I am visiting The area in April to look at the possiblity of walking the area in May. Regards Steve Binks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 3 April , 2005 Share Posted 3 April , 2005 Hi Steve I can only give you breif details as I am a little short of time as I off to York for a couple of days this week, how long before you go to Ypres. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 P.S. Dave's map of Bellewaarde Lake does not show the 27th Div.'s trench on west side of Lake dating from May 1915, I would say it was abandoned as un-useable by 1916. Annette. The 1916 map shows a (rather insignificant) trench on the west side of the lake that runs parallel with the path and the lake's western bank. It's not shown on either of the 1917 maps. Is this not the remnant of the 1915 frontline trench? Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 I have a trench map showing a trench dug on the west bank of the lake. Stephen. What's the date of this trench-map? Any chance of seeing a scan of it? Cheers, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen binks Posted 4 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Hi Steve I can only give you breif details as I am a little short of time as I off to York for a couple of days this week, how long before you go to Ypres. Annette <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hi Annette email me when you return. I am going to Ypres on the 22nd of April. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen binks Posted 4 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Stephen. What's the date of this trench-map? Any chance of seeing a scan of it? Cheers, Dave. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The map has been photocopied from the 8oth Brigade war diary and therefore is just crayon marks on a blank. It dates from May 1915 as the Germans pushed the British back from Polygon wood then back through lake wood. I will have a go at scanning the map after I have sent this reply. I cant guarantee its arrival as this is testing my computer skills to the limit! Just found how to attach! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen binks Posted 4 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Another go at attaching trench map! Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Hi Dave Sorry I never looked at the Railway Wood map on your site, which does just show part of lake, and yes that's the trench running parallel with the path that dates to May 1915. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 The map has been photocopied from the 8oth Brigade war diary and therefore is just crayon marks on a blank. It dates from May 1915 as the Germans pushed the British back from Polygon wood then back through lake wood. I will have a go at scanning the map after I have sent this reply. I cant guarantee its arrival as this is testing my computer skills to the limit! Thanks Stephen. I thought you'd stumbled across something unknown when you mentioned a May 1915 trenchmap (the first British trenchmaps for this area date from July/August 1915, that's why I was so desperate to see it!) Being a "trench sketch", rather than a true trench-map explains it, and I can now stop wondering!!! Cheers, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Hi Dave Sorry I never looked at the Railway Wood map on your site, which does just show part of lake, and yes that's the trench running parallel with the path that dates to May 1915. Annette <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Thanks Annette. I had a feeling it might have been (well, there's not enough room to have had another trench there anyway!!! ). It's also (the whole lake) shown on the "Hooge, August 1916" map. Cheers, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Hi Dave Where abouts is the "Hooge, August 1916" map ? on your site. I looked at the 1917 one but I could not find one dated 1916 ? just wonding if I am going mad or just need glasses Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 4 April , 2005 Share Posted 4 April , 2005 Where abouts is the "Hooge, August 1916" map ? on your site. I looked at the 1917 one but I could not find one dated 1916 ? just wonding if I am going mad or just need glasses Annette I think you need glasses, Annette! As I write this ,there are 3 Hooge maps on the "trenchmap extracts" page... "Hooge June 1917" is the 6th row down, far right. "Hooge April 1917" is the 8th row down, second from the right "Hooge August 1916" is 8th row down, far right. I know,I know, - I need to arrange them into some sort of order. I will do one day, but as I'm constantly, and randomly, adding to this page, it seems a little pointless at the moment. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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