SS Ramazan

[Dr T Hundal]

Thanks for a very informative update on the incident. Has made my research a bit easy, though, any additional inputs are always welcome.  

[charlie962]

@wightspirit just to test your expertise further, are there likely to be reports for this event, even lists of perished/survived in similar files to those you've commented on today in other threads? I realise this is 1915 Adriatic not 1917 Atlantic. 

Thanks, Charlie 

I think we've located the 1915 crew lists but nothing further.

Edited 26 November , 2022 by charlie962

[wightspirit]

Charlie962

Well, the area of loss, reported as 55 miles south-west of Antikythira Island, is well outside my area of research (and expertise) but you might find something within these references, particularly the first one:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4115692

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4114627

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4112807

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4115773

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4112802

 

These also might be of interest:

https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?140437 and https://uboat.net/wwi/ships_hit/5008.html

 

Dave W

 

[charlie962]

Wrecksite os always a first to check for clues.

Many thanks for the other link suggestions. I would not have known all this.

@Dr T Hundal, don't know if you can visit Kew?

[charlie962]

Dave W,

Given the depth? of research undertaken by submarine enthusiasts is there not a dedicated site where these records have been copied or transcribed? -apary from wrecksite? 

Charlie 

Edit- sorry, I missed the uboat.net site (only shows 1 casualty!!). Should Dr T try there?

Edited 26 November , 2022 by charlie962

[wightspirit]

Charlie962

As far as I know, the answer is no. There were so many shipping losses that it would be a monumental task to copy them and publish them, never mind copyright issues. There are sites which do have survivors' accounts for WWII but I've never found anything for WW1 - other than by visiting the National Archives and searching the volumes of documents there.  Much more rewarding to visit and see what's there - all free of charge.

Dave W

 

[charlie962]

37 minutes ago, wightspirit said:

all free of charge.

Thank you.

It's the getting there that's difficult and costly for the likes of us stranded on mainland Europe! So much has been digitised that one becomes spoilt and thus disappointed when records remain only in original paper form!! As has been commented on one of the other threads, when one cannot say exactly what one wants, paying a researcher is not always practical. 

However maybe DrT can visit...

[charlie962]

From the newspaper chart I posted earlier, Ramazan has the second highest losses for 'Transport' shipping after the Royal Edward (I assume the paper was correct with its selection?). If this is so then it will be good to see more detail posted here. 

Charlie

[KizmeRD]

I have saved a list of 275*war dead that I have identified from the CWGC database (men whose deaths were from the sinking of the Ramazan). These soldiers were replacement drafts from 10th Gurkha, Burma Military Police/14th Sikhs and the Supply & Transport Corp. - There may well be more casualties to add to the list from other units (query Mule Corp?).

MB

edit: * Total currently stands at 278, as I managed to find three more waifs and strays attached to 10th Gurkha.

Edited 27 November , 2022 by KizmeRD

[Dr T Hundal]

@charlie962 May not be possible for me to physically visit Kew physicaly, at least for this research. Would solicit any additional bits on the subject , if available with any one on the forum. BTW, my research encompasses, Indian Troops at Gallipoli, 29 Indian Infantry Brigade and associated troops. Though have covered a lot of ground in this area, but research is never completed. So, on this broad topic also, suggestions/links/ information is welcome. TIA

Edited 27 November , 2022 by Dr T Hundal

[Dr T Hundal]

On 23/11/2022 at 15:23, Simon S. said:

Hello all,

enclosed is the translation of the war diary entry of U 35, which raises some questions. Why were the soldiers in the forecastle forgotten when leaving the ship? Were the Sikhs and Gurkhas not voluntarily on board?

...

19.9.15, 4h30-5h20 in the morning, West of Crete, wind WNW 2, clear, visible.

Dived at dawn in front of dimmed vessel and drove attack. Steamer lies so high out of the water that torpedo may pass under her. Therefore surfaced and fired a shot across the bow. Austrian flag set. Steamer does not set flag, turns away and tries to escape; therefore opened gunfire on her. After about 6 to 8 observed hits the steamer stops and launches boats. By 7 a.m. 7 boats are launched fully manned; it is determined that it is a transport of Indian troops. People wear brown and yellow turbans, some of them tropical hats. When the last boat had set off at 7 a.m., the steamer was hit a few times in the waterline of the forward hold. As the ship began to sink, a large number of people suddenly came running up on deck from the forecastle, but they did nothing to save themselves. The actual crew of the steamer had already disembarked and it seemed as if the troops that had just appeared had been locked below deck. In total, the transport must have been about 500 men strong. The number of lifeboats on the ship was far from sufficient. Unfortunately, it was not possible to think of rescuing the people by submarine because of the excessive number. The ship was the English steamer "Ramazan" from Liverpool (2,200 GRT). It had black funnel with white ring and white and red flag underneath. On the forward decks above the forward holds, as well as on the middle deck, wooden sheds - apparently living quarters - had been built.

...

Greetings from Potsdam
Simon

Hi Simon, Can you pl share the original version of War Diary entry of U-35, translated version of which is quoted by you. TIA

[Simon S.]

2 hours ago, Dr T Hundal said:

Hi Simon, Can you pl share the original version of War Diary entry of U-35, translated version of which is quoted by you. TIA

Good Morning,

 

here it is.

Rgds.

Simon

 

 

[Dr T Hundal]

Thanks Simon. Grateful

[Dr T Hundal]

Dear All, 

Are there any resources available which can throw some light on ship runs between Alexandria and Mudros,carrying the reinforcements during the Gallipoli Campaign? I am particularly looking between the time period of July to December 1915. Any help is welcome. TIA

[KizmeRD]

Dr. T - I can’t tell you where to locate a full listing of ships sailing from Alexandria during second half of 1915 (and can only suggest a visit to TNA at Kew for that level of detail), but obviously Alexandria was a busy military and naval port throughout WW1.

The arrival in August 1915 of two larger, more capable U-boats (U34 & U35) in the Mediterranean had an immediate and significant impact on Allied shipping. I think its true to say that U35 was the most successful U-boat of the entire war in terms of tonnage sunk, and RAMAZAN wasn’t the only British troop ship encountered by Kophamel (MARQUETTE was another of his victims, sunk 23 October 1915 on a voyage from Alexandria to Salonika, with the loss of 167 lives).

MB

PS I don’t believe that any further reinforcements were sent to Gallipoli after Lt.Gen. Munro took over command in October. 

Edited 31 January , 2023 by KizmeRD
Remark added about Munro

[Dr T Hundal]

On 31/01/2023 at 16:50, KizmeRD said:

Dr. T - I can’t tell you where to locate a full listing of ships sailing from Alexandria during second half of 1915 (and can only suggest a visit to TNA at Kew for that level of detail), but obviously Alexandria was a busy military and naval port throughout WW1.

The arrival in August 1915 of two larger, more capable U-boats (U34 & U35) in the Mediterranean had an immediate and significant impact on Allied shipping. I think its true to say that U35 was the most successful U-boat of the entire war in terms of tonnage sunk, and RAMAZAN wasn’t the only British troop ship encountered by Kophamel (MARQUETTE was another of his victims, sunk 23 October 1915 on a voyage from Alexandria to Salonika, with the loss of 167 lives).

MB

PS I don’t believe that any further reinforcements were sent to Gallipoli after Lt.Gen. Munro took over command in October. 

Thanks for the Information.