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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Huge battery near fromelles


Tom Oliviers

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Hello,

Last weekend we went to fromelles, a local showed us a massive bunkercomplex in the Woods near some fishing ponds. 

He told us a heavy mortar (21cm or above?!) was installed inside. Its only one gun bunker, a huge troop bunker and in front an massive exploded bunker. I think a leitstand or some sort. At the side you see it had two floors 

 

Im now at work, later i can post pics but it interests me a lot. Its size loods like those giants once built in marinekorps flandern, only thisone lies between fromelles and aubers.

 

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A quick drawn of  the three bunkers what i remember at work... later i try to draw it in 2d or 3d, ive taken hundreds of pictures of it but they are at home.

Anyone can identify the battery for me? Which units mannen it with which gun?20221114_081124.jpg.a53c68128aeb5d35f9b5224b1d8f1e51.jpg

 

 

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OK, back home, to start with, here the location of the huge bunkers we found.

001.png

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the exact location of this battery on the german map of 1918

002.png

Ive layered the map on google earth

003.png

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Ok, now ive drew the trenches (bleu), the smalltracks (black) and added the points of interest according the german map, the location of the battery is called "Bayern" on the map, maybe its battery Bayern?

 

004.png

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on another website i found the name, it was not a battery but a huge commanding bunker called "Befehlstelle Bayern Links", on the back of the complex there is a bunker for a heavy mortar or howitser. But still not 100% shure, its a strange combination, HQ with a mortar/houwitser on the back

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Good find Tom. Certainly an important zone, in a very well defended area. Attached is how the British saw it. Have just been trying to find some old (pre-digital) photos, but but seems buried in photo archive.

Did you take photos? Just east of this you probably saw the bunker Abbiette, another very large and complicated structure.

An interesting area to visit.

 

Peter

 

 

aubers.jpg

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Yes, we took tons of pics. Bunker abiette (tnx for its name) we also found, its a wellblech with three rooms. Its complex because it was build in two times, the large wellblech was build first, later they attached the smaller wellblech with machinery room against it. Perhaps the machinery was used for electricity for the befehlstelle next to it? Or was this a smaller pumping station for water?

update, just found out that bunker Abbiette is the easy-to-find-bunker-with-coupola. Sometimes mentioned as AH his old ww1 bunker. The complex wellblech i mentioned is close by the befehlstelle bayern (also on the east of it), i make a sketch of it

Edited by Tom Oliviers
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Here a sketch of the befehlstelle, notice the big supporting beams in front of the bunker, i think an observation room was placed in the bunker on this spot. It had also a second floor on this part. On the left side, the windows are closed with a new layer of concrete (later in the war), i've crawled underneath the debris to see what is left and those features only can been seen from inside. the red is the whole collapsed roof, there is no entry possible anymore underneath. Also a word of caution, because there are dangerous remaining grenades inside.

The walls are easily 1,5m thick, the roof is more than 2m thick!!! very high standards for an important bunker

1A1 01 BFA.png

Edited by Tom Oliviers
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1602822030_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(1).jpg.78778b93503b884fad9030b23449cf8d.jpg

Overview of what the once important bunker nowadays looks like...

 

218562667_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(3).jpg.5f75ed7801594db829d912cbaeef22c0.jpg

View on the front between the supporting beams (yellow), notice the slightly higher floor which i thing was an observation room (or coupola?)

1877989144_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(4).jpg.74befe1ec377e0340ef369258d4712f4.jpg

supporting beam

452019920_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(5).jpg.c48406d0dcbd746f0703f126377fee22.jpg

supporting beams in front of the bunker

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951566101_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(9).jpg.850ace10749979d81c02da4fde2f9d8c.jpg

The bunker seen from the back, notice where i am standing there is a troop-bunker (or the remains of it), which was build directly against the befehlstelle

362617384_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(10).jpg.f393f9f9389686cffd46d9a7ecf8faa6.jpg

a window of the troop-bunker can been seen on the right.

621323177_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(11).jpg.30c21205d5e9dcab0f0ce7ba9afb2f4b.jpg

a first peek inside, on the left a (later) closed up window

1791491759_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(12).jpg.f18d86af1859b77908e7913e7adeca2b.jpg

detail on this closed up window

1888688642_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(13).jpg.b9787a6ff3afc015b3753fc7a1dfee16.jpg

we continu further to the back. notice the inner walls (what is left of it)

1716432671_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(14).jpg.f8659bfa257308d88041cc4406d367d7.jpg

270855409_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(16).jpg.6dada485e49dff015da2f87382451fab.jpg

517688292_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(17).jpg.22b7d3fdc57d84919fff7db4130e28be.jpg

227057557_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(19).jpg.ce1fb622eaa307fa63cc0e27473e72dc.jpg

the second closed up window, notice the wood still left as well as the wood around a piping (ventilation)

1222125911_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(15).jpg.f6384e337f6cd465b6810b52c158bd53.jpg

view on the backside of the bunker, i'm not shure this was a window or just a complete blewn out wall (i see no straight edges)

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1940229532_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(18).jpg.75bcdc1070ee92662cde89723e3d262b.jpg

be aware of the still live 'nades that are hidden between the debris, which can still detonate. i think this is a german rifle grenade (??)

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802036028_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(24).jpg.d87e13d821bce8b5b306593a438841c5.jpg

Some details: here a grenade (empty i guess) which was poured into the concrete. We've seen this on multiple locations in AOK 6, The germans used all kinds of steel to reinforce the concrete, even old grenade shells.

1360728091_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(25).jpg.f323f1aaa30392d46e346953d8d3ea41.jpg

or masonry roof tiles which where also poured into the concrete! i wait for the day i see a stahlhelm poured in the concrete, the used litterally everything! 

1459140493_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(26).jpg.55676a8f0ac00fdaf07ad437fbd104eb.jpg

Another closed up window, on the higher floor next to the observation room

319677651_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(28).jpg.e574f3605b4bed22cd6ca8b8dd6923f2.jpg

a still open window on the lower floor on the entrance side (i think they kept this window because its oriented to the same side as the entrance

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1555852742_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(29).jpg.0b93862cb9ede484439b9a44fb95c28c.jpg

here you see the entrance! if you look carefully you see the small shrapnell wals with the entrance between

423568017_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(30).jpg.3360c7c39e2bc7d86ea23a87434c0d4b.jpg

a peek trough the entrance where the officers of this befehlstelle entered the bunker

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13 minutes ago, Tom Oliviers said:

1940229532_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(18).jpg.75bcdc1070ee92662cde89723e3d262b.jpg

be aware of the still live 'nades that are hidden between the debris, which can still detonate. i think this is a german rifle grenade (??)

No, it's a Priesterwerfer grande.

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thank you for ure expertise!

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8 minutes ago, Tom Oliviers said:

 

1360728091_BefehlstelleBayernLinks13112022BFA(25).jpg.f323f1aaa30392d46e346953d8d3ea41.jpg

or masonry roof tiles which where also poured into the concrete! i wait for the day i see a stahlhelm poured in the concrete, the used litterally everything!

Local tile, from the Tuilerie mécanique in Aubers.

 

tuilerie.jpg

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Wauw! history comes back alive here! thank you!

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the complete SKETCH (not measured and a lot of questionmarks as the whole is one big ruins)

 

compleet veronderstelling BFA.png

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Judging from the drawings, isn't a Minenwerferstand more plausible? Possible for a mittlerer Minewerfer (17 cm)?

There's no way one can get a Haubitze in there.

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I'm no expert concerning weapons, i was hoping for such an constructive idea! 

Thank you again! i post some pictures of the gun room in a minute, i'm now finishing downloading old aerials from remonter le temps, but none of them are real sharp (as always, the good and sharp aerials from the past are from the area's around the interesting bunkers, but none of the location i need :D )

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here some pictures of the minenwerfer-bunker

1329058462_Geschtzstand132022BFA(3).jpg.cf0d7d4ea74d6a40b1e5af45c9e8be00.jpg

entrance to the bunker

2029411284_Geschtzstand132022BFA(4).jpg.19f54a55d4a69bf395b6af667f9de3f8.jpg

266528903_Geschtzstand132022BFA(6).jpg.9119001304ac0201bc92429d188802bd.jpg

outside view of the gunroom

1534650416_Geschtzstand132022BFA(20).jpg.bc7024f79f362e75068cd554419a9359.jpg

inside view of the gunroom

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nearby to the east lies this large troop bunker with an extra room for machinery

 

UTR 2D 02 BFA.png

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The machinery room with concrete support for a machine (electricity? waterpump?)

2066138862_UTR--13112022BFA(3).jpg.9dce68710e9f3d0072355a50579bb6b3.jpg

989234302_UTR--13112022BFA(9).jpg.fa4c6b169fccedc0abd1f8b1e958c399.jpg

76419908_UTR--13112022BFA(7).jpg.7fe1b560bcd85ae1f8ddde1d57b8226e.jpg

1687761969_UTR--13112022BFA(11).jpg.d97fd67c9810ce437da26b4d9f173ab6.jpg

989234302_UTR--13112022BFA(9).jpg.fa4c6b169fccedc0abd1f8b1e958c399.jpg

UTR -- 13 11 2022 BFA (8).jpg

A small room with heinrichbogen (i call it lagerung on the sketch which means storage, but thats not shure offcoarse)

1103025844_UTR--13112022BFA(13).jpg.666288a0f08772193d0771b8c7629e6f.jpg

1884614681_UTR--13112022BFA(14).jpg.1be27190f6db8d6b4a2c8d11da00a9bc.jpg

649823533_UTR--13112022BFA(15).jpg.35244eea42b858192c1631b09bab0032.jpg

809093039_UTR--13112022BFA(18).jpg.b2185011426ade6a2b3b1d4c15776b69.jpg

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the large room with heinrichbogen, i tried to get to the other side, but failed because almost lost my boots in the deep and sticky mud inside.

1646298441_UTR--13112022BFA(19).jpg.ef179f2f8455733f4821160d5affea2e.jpg

398930873_UTR--13112022BFA(20).jpg.125166b3b9658852ae4a6b5ffdd82ce6.jpg

802720156_UTR--13112022BFA(25).jpg.3e08d047f013eab412b2eba47563556d.jpg

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