Tom Oliviers Posted 14 November , 2022 Share Posted 14 November , 2022 Hello, Last weekend we went to fromelles, a local showed us a massive bunkercomplex in the Woods near some fishing ponds. He told us a heavy mortar (21cm or above?!) was installed inside. Its only one gun bunker, a huge troop bunker and in front an massive exploded bunker. I think a leitstand or some sort. At the side you see it had two floors Im now at work, later i can post pics but it interests me a lot. Its size loods like those giants once built in marinekorps flandern, only thisone lies between fromelles and aubers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 14 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2022 A quick drawn of the three bunkers what i remember at work... later i try to draw it in 2d or 3d, ive taken hundreds of pictures of it but they are at home. Anyone can identify the battery for me? Which units mannen it with which gun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 14 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2022 OK, back home, to start with, here the location of the huge bunkers we found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 14 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2022 the exact location of this battery on the german map of 1918 Ive layered the map on google earth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 14 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2022 Ok, now ive drew the trenches (bleu), the smalltracks (black) and added the points of interest according the german map, the location of the battery is called "Bayern" on the map, maybe its battery Bayern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 14 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2022 on another website i found the name, it was not a battery but a huge commanding bunker called "Befehlstelle Bayern Links", on the back of the complex there is a bunker for a heavy mortar or howitser. But still not 100% shure, its a strange combination, HQ with a mortar/houwitser on the back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 14 November , 2022 Share Posted 14 November , 2022 Good find Tom. Certainly an important zone, in a very well defended area. Attached is how the British saw it. Have just been trying to find some old (pre-digital) photos, but but seems buried in photo archive. Did you take photos? Just east of this you probably saw the bunker Abbiette, another very large and complicated structure. An interesting area to visit. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 (edited) Yes, we took tons of pics. Bunker abiette (tnx for its name) we also found, its a wellblech with three rooms. Its complex because it was build in two times, the large wellblech was build first, later they attached the smaller wellblech with machinery room against it. Perhaps the machinery was used for electricity for the befehlstelle next to it? Or was this a smaller pumping station for water? update, just found out that bunker Abbiette is the easy-to-find-bunker-with-coupola. Sometimes mentioned as AH his old ww1 bunker. The complex wellblech i mentioned is close by the befehlstelle bayern (also on the east of it), i make a sketch of it Edited 15 November , 2022 by Tom Oliviers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 (edited) Here a sketch of the befehlstelle, notice the big supporting beams in front of the bunker, i think an observation room was placed in the bunker on this spot. It had also a second floor on this part. On the left side, the windows are closed with a new layer of concrete (later in the war), i've crawled underneath the debris to see what is left and those features only can been seen from inside. the red is the whole collapsed roof, there is no entry possible anymore underneath. Also a word of caution, because there are dangerous remaining grenades inside. The walls are easily 1,5m thick, the roof is more than 2m thick!!! very high standards for an important bunker Edited 15 November , 2022 by Tom Oliviers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 Overview of what the once important bunker nowadays looks like... View on the front between the supporting beams (yellow), notice the slightly higher floor which i thing was an observation room (or coupola?) supporting beam supporting beams in front of the bunker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 The bunker seen from the back, notice where i am standing there is a troop-bunker (or the remains of it), which was build directly against the befehlstelle a window of the troop-bunker can been seen on the right. a first peek inside, on the left a (later) closed up window detail on this closed up window we continu further to the back. notice the inner walls (what is left of it) the second closed up window, notice the wood still left as well as the wood around a piping (ventilation) view on the backside of the bunker, i'm not shure this was a window or just a complete blewn out wall (i see no straight edges) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 be aware of the still live 'nades that are hidden between the debris, which can still detonate. i think this is a german rifle grenade (??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 Some details: here a grenade (empty i guess) which was poured into the concrete. We've seen this on multiple locations in AOK 6, The germans used all kinds of steel to reinforce the concrete, even old grenade shells. or masonry roof tiles which where also poured into the concrete! i wait for the day i see a stahlhelm poured in the concrete, the used litterally everything! Another closed up window, on the higher floor next to the observation room a still open window on the lower floor on the entrance side (i think they kept this window because its oriented to the same side as the entrance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 here you see the entrance! if you look carefully you see the small shrapnell wals with the entrance between a peek trough the entrance where the officers of this befehlstelle entered the bunker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 15 November , 2022 Share Posted 15 November , 2022 13 minutes ago, Tom Oliviers said: be aware of the still live 'nades that are hidden between the debris, which can still detonate. i think this is a german rifle grenade (??) No, it's a Priesterwerfer grande. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 thank you for ure expertise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 15 November , 2022 Share Posted 15 November , 2022 8 minutes ago, Tom Oliviers said: or masonry roof tiles which where also poured into the concrete! i wait for the day i see a stahlhelm poured in the concrete, the used litterally everything! Local tile, from the Tuilerie mécanique in Aubers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 Wauw! history comes back alive here! thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 the complete SKETCH (not measured and a lot of questionmarks as the whole is one big ruins) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 15 November , 2022 Share Posted 15 November , 2022 Judging from the drawings, isn't a Minenwerferstand more plausible? Possible for a mittlerer Minewerfer (17 cm)? There's no way one can get a Haubitze in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 I'm no expert concerning weapons, i was hoping for such an constructive idea! Thank you again! i post some pictures of the gun room in a minute, i'm now finishing downloading old aerials from remonter le temps, but none of them are real sharp (as always, the good and sharp aerials from the past are from the area's around the interesting bunkers, but none of the location i need ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 here some pictures of the minenwerfer-bunker entrance to the bunker outside view of the gunroom inside view of the gunroom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 nearby to the east lies this large troop bunker with an extra room for machinery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 The machinery room with concrete support for a machine (electricity? waterpump?) A small room with heinrichbogen (i call it lagerung on the sketch which means storage, but thats not shure offcoarse) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Oliviers Posted 15 November , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2022 the large room with heinrichbogen, i tried to get to the other side, but failed because almost lost my boots in the deep and sticky mud inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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