H.M.HS. Salta - from the Gallipoli period to her sinking, 10th April 1917

[ZeZe]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for posting the Karapara & ex Alaunia lists – very helpful of you.

regards ZeZe

 

[ZeZe]

Hi,

Additions for R.A.M.C. Officers serving on ‘Salta’.

Lt.-Col. P H FALKNER – to be added to the timeline. He was the Officer Commanding R.A.M.C. Troops on “Salta”, served on board from April 1915 to (probably) late November 1916. Best match is Percy Hope Falkner.

Lt.-Col. P H Falkner was a man with ideas. He invented a sling for ‘the rapid and efficient loading of wounded from boats and barges into hospital ships and temporary hospital ships’.

Drawings and description of the sling: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2346812/pdf/brmedj07029-0042.pdf

He also had suggestions regarding the catering arrangements on hospital ships. I had assumed food on board would have been superior to the catering at shore based hospitals but it appears the contrary was true.

Source: https://wellcomecollection.org/works/nkzv6epj/items?canvas=39

Catering services were contracted out to companies such as Liptons Ltd and Moss & Co ‘...who give us throughly bad service…..with the possible exception of meat, the foods throughout are on the whole very inferior…..and the cooking is indifferent on the whole and often very bad…’ ‘We have an insanitary food service on this ship. Not only do our patients receive their foods tainted and even rancid at times, but the pantries are kept in a dirty, and, in the past, often in a filthy state.’

His plan was to remove the civil staff (apart from the Ship’s Officers and essential crew) and increase the number of serving soldiers by ten men, some of whom would be trained cooks. There’s no indication what the response to the suggestion was. The document is dated 16th November 1916 which is during the period ‘Salta’ appears to have been in dock. Perhaps Lt.-Col. Falkner was transferred to another posting. If so, he was not present when ‘Salta’ hit the mine and sank on 10^th April 1917. Does anyone have any more info?

Lt.-Col. Percy Hope Falkner’s gravestone: https://www.flickr.com/photos/127943389@N02/33188647014

Short obituaries the Officers who drowned: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2348204/pdf/brmedj07097-0024.pdf

I was surprised to find out that according to this article James Randolph GYLLENCREUTZ served on ‘Salta’ from July 1915. 

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2348411/?page=4

Captain David Wallace SMITH served on 'Salta', July 1916.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2348710/pdf/brmedj07059-0024.pdf

Regards ZeZe

[JimC]

On 25/10/2022 at 17:00, ZeZe said:

Hi

A timeline for H.M.H.S. Salta – for the sinking of Salta there’s a lot of info already on GWF & the internet so I’m only highlighting what may be new or less well known.

Gallipoli Period & 1916

I had hoped to be able to identify some of the nurses in the album compiled by Edith Austen album (on page 002). The two group photos may pre date Edith’s time on Salta. The Matron could well be Ina Humfrey (Q.A.I.M.N.S. tippet) – unfortunately her posting date to Salta is recorded in a letter but not the transfer date. Five tippet badges on show are Q.A.I.M.N.S. Reserve, one T.F.N.S. and I cannot see any N.Z.A.N.S. badge so the group photos may pre date December 1915. Two of the standing nurses uniforms are different – are they V.A.D or off duty nurses?

Edith Austen’s photo album:

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE11639442&dps_custom_att_1=emu

One nurse who can be identified in the album is N.Z.A.N.S. Ada Gilbert Hawken who died at Alexandria of typhoid, 28/10/1915.

* * * * *

Alf McM found the probable cause of the break in nursing staff on board Salta, from early October 1916 to end of March 1917 in the war diaries of Maud McCarthy, Matron-in-Chief, B.E.F.

3rd October 1916

‘Received letter from A/Matron of the Salta telling me of narrow escape of a serious accident having happened to the ship off the Isle of Wight – it ran ashore but only slight damage was done, but the 1st Officer shot himself. No panic and no harm done to anyone.’

Salta must have suffered more damage than the above report suggests. From the nurse records it appears Salta was not at sea until her final voyage to Le Havre. Perhaps Salta was dry docked for repairs to the hull or had a refit. Can anyone confirm this?

Sinking 10th April 1917

The seven Letitia nursing staff had disembarked about 19th March 1917 and had been temporary assigned to hospital train duty out of Southampton. For four of the other five nurses Salta was their first posting away from a Home Station. All twelve joined Salta on the 6th April 1917.

Background – extracts from Lines of Communication. Havre Base: Director Medical Services (1917)

31/03/1917

Gloucester Castle Sailed, 398 cases; Grantully sailed, 544 cases. (later in the day) D.N.T.O. states that all sailings of Hospital Ships are cancelled for the present.

01/04/1917

H.S. Warilda having 700 cases on board … is now anchored in the Roads. No other hospital ship reported. Sailings still suspended.

02/04/1917 to 09/04/1917

No hospital ship sailings.

With the port closed for over a week the hospitals at Le Havre must have been full of wounded soldiers waiting for transport to England and pressure was mounting to re-open.

10/04/1917

Port still closed. Hospital ships expected tonight. H.S. Salta struck a mine & (this part is difficult to read) rank & file found in the sea was 80, ?? sisters brought in – 71 others, also one off another ship H.M.S. P.26

13/04/1917

The following hospital ships sailed for Southampton under Escort. 

Grantully Castle, 543 cases, Warilda, with 653, Panama with 398, Lanfranc with 400 & Western Australia with 326. These ships would not accept any cases with long splints on, as they said they could not get them off if the ships hit a mine.

* * * * *

There is one first hand account in file WO 399/9330 of Elizabeth Young.

I got into the lifeboat direct from the “Salta” and was rescued from that by H.M.S. ‘Druid”. The greater number of those in the water were rescued by H.M Patrol “Boat 26” which was afterwards mined and all the rescued on board were lost.

The L.G. citation for the award of the Albert Medal to Pte Bodsworth also has a first hand account of him saving an unnamed nurse.

….. All the occupants of the boat were rescued except a Hospital Sister and Private Bodsworth. The former was so exhausted that she was unable to hold the ropes thrown to her, and eventually became unconscious. Although he might have been rescued, Private Bodsworth persisted in remaining in the boat with the Sister, and, after she had fallen overboard and been hauled back again, he finally succeeded in placing a line round her body, by means of which she was hauled on board the " Druid."…..

Agnes Mann’s file WO 399/5581 has as strange anomaly.

Her father writes to the Head Office in June 1918 stating he has heard that his daughter’s body was washed ashore. He wants to know why he was not advised of this and that a ‘great injustice has been done’.

There is a note of the reply to him: ‘We have no information of the recovery of the body. A memorial cross has been erected ….etc.

However in the file is a telegram transcript (not to be communicated outside the War Office) dated 6th June 1917: ‘Body of Nurse bearing cape Q.A.I.M.N.S.R. washed up yesterday. Cape shows letter A. Greig Mann. Supposed Nursing Sister late H.M.H.S. Salta’

Perhaps the identification wasn’t certain enough which is why the authorities didn’t want to inform the relatives either at the time or when Agnes’ father wrote a year later.

Eveline Dawson’s file WO 399/2122 contains both an account by the Military Foot Policeman who found her body on the beach and also a report of her funeral (lead by the Scottish Pipers) on 28th June 1917.

* * * * *

The entries from the War Diaries of Maud McCarthy covering this period (previously posted by Alf McM).

07.06.17

Hospital Ship “Salta”: Received telephone message from DDMS Havre, saying that the body of a Nursing Sister had been washed up and it was thought to be that of Miss A. G. Mann of the Hospital Ship “Salta” – he asked if any particulars could be supplied about her. Replied that there was no nominal roll of the staff of Hospital Ship “Salta” in this office and that [no] particulars of the nursing staff were available. Suggested that application should be made to DDMS Southampton. The funeral had been arranged to take place on the 7th.

09.06.17

Hospital Ship “Salta”: Memo received from DDMS Havre re the recovery from the sea on June 5th of the body of Staff Nurse A. G. Mann of Hospital Ship “Salta”. The War Office had been informed by wire, and arrangements for the funeral had been made by OC 2 General Hospital.

16.06.17

Hospital Ship “Salta”: Received letter from Miss Wellman, Matron, 2 General Hospital, saying that the body of a Nursing Sister had been washed up, but could not be identified.

28.07.17

Hospital Ship “Salta”: Miss Hartigan, A/Principal Matron, Etaples, reported that the body of a Nursing Sister ANSR had been washed up at Merlimont Plage. The number on badge was 844 – name E. M. Dawson. The funeral had been arranged for the 29th – 9.30 a.m. Miss Hartigan reported that she was sending flowers for the Matron-in-Chief and Nursing Staff, and would write an account of the funeral to forward to the War Office.

* * * * *

Wikipedia states: ‘Of the 205 passengers and crew members, 9 nurses, 42 members of the Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMC) and 79 crew drowned.’

I’m not sure if these figures are correct. I have 80 crew who died – Andrew Binnie PHILP RNVR may have been missed. I’ve included the 18 from the crew of H.M.S. P.26 who were casualties as a direct result of Salta straying into the mines. Those men seem to be forgotten in most accounts. Any corrections / additions wellcome.

Links

GWF https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/14557-salta-hospital-ship/

Lines of Communication. Havre Base

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/b9a62a847c6645ccb0f5d14ddd7bbbf5

War Diaries of Maud McCarthy

http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/110.html

Kathleen Mann (not a relation of Agnes), evidence of her being on board Salta in the Gallipoli period – excerpts from her diary & photo:

https://insider.spink.com/2022/09/01/kathleen-summer-2022/

Albert Medal to Pte. Samuel Arnold Bodsworth:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30472/page/734/data.pdf

regards ZeZe

 

G'day ZeZe,

 

This is a bit of an older thread, but I'm just following some trails regarding research I'm doing on Staff Nurse Pricilla Jane Selfe (see image). She was with Q.A.I.M.N.S.R & apparently served on board the Salta. This is the only image I have and for some reason I'm unable to open Edith Austen’s photo album to confirm if she matches any of those nurses listed, but if you still have access, might be worth a look

Edited 27 November , 2023 by JimC

[alf mcm]

Jim,

  Welcome to the forum.

   Priscilla's QAIMNSR service record is available free tp download {once you register} online at The National Archives. A family tree on Ancestry shows that she married Edgar Wallace Moulton in Karachi in 1919. Unfortunately no photo of her. Priscilla's service record is under her married name of Moulton. Name Moulton, Priscilla | The National Archives  I'm not sure if these records mention Salta, but you should still find them interesting.

Regards,

Alf McM

[ZeZe]

Hi JimC,

Thanks for the info for Priscilla Selfe. I did download her file a while back but couldn’t find any reference to a hospital ship. Do you know the date the picture was published as it will give a guide for when she served onboard Salta?

Unfortunately the Austen Album isn’t working for me either (from memory – Edith hadn’t named any of the nurses in the album).

Regards ZeZe

 

As the Salta timeline is awol on the post here’s the latest version:

[alf mcm]

Jim,

  Priscilla is mentioned twice in the HMHS 'Egypt' war diary;-

On 08/09/18 Staff Nurse Miss Priscilla Selfe, QAIMNSR, embarked at Bombay for duty.

On 05/10/18 she disembarked for duty at Station Hospital, Karachi.

Regards,

Alf McM

[alf mcm]

ZeZe,

  I have just done a search on the new set of 'First World War Campaign Medals' on Findmypast. It's possible to search by date of disembarkation and theatre. I selected Priscilla's date of 25.07.15 from the 14/15 Star Roll, although this needs to go in the search field as 25 July 1915. I also put in 'Egyptian' for the theatre. This gave 31 results. I have checked 3 of the names and they all disembarked from 'Salta' a few days after 25th July. Harriet PARRY {wrongly indexed as PARRG} went to 17 G.H.; Victoria GEMMELL went to 'Dunluce Castle'; and Martha POUND went to 'Dover Castle'. 

Search Results for Britain, First World War Campaign Medals | findmypast.co.uk

  You have Jane BULLMAN on your timeline from 25/07/15, but on the Star Roll the date is 24/07/15. A day or 2 difference is not unusual. Repeating my search using 24/07/15 gives 43 results. Some of these may have disembarked from 'Salta'.

Regards,

Alf McM

[ZeZe]

Hi Alf

Thanks for the interesting tip – I wasn’t aware that FMP held the 14/15 Star Roll. I see that using your search without a date 1048 names are the result. 

Regards ZeZe

[alf mcm]

ZeZe,

  Tried another search for all medal rolls only putting in 'nursing' and Salta'. This gave me 2 names not on your timeline;-

C.F. FOSTER [Christina Fachney], HS SALTA - Jan 1915 {WO399/2852}

M.A. JOLLY - HS SALTA - 06/05/154 Can't find service record.

It's certainly a great search facility.

Regards,

Alf McM

[pierssc]

On 27/11/2023 at 16:15, ZeZe said:

Unfortunately the Austen Album isn’t working for me either (from memory – Edith hadn’t named any of the nurses in the album).

There's always a way... go to the Natlib.govt.nz homepage and search from there for "austen" in images.

It should take you to https://natlib.govt.nz/items?i[category]=Images&text=austen where the album is the first item - and from there you can see a small number of images.

I'm interested in the group photo.  The attached two images are from my RNR grandfather's 1916 Egypt album when he was serving on an armed Trawler.  The page is headed "Sisters and MOs of Hospital ship "Salta" and both are annotated "Group on board "Faithful" 1916".  I reckon I can recognise several people from the group in the Austen album.  Unfortunately they're not named....

Evidently my grandfather took the first photo and the RN Lieutenant the second!

 

 

Edited 29 November , 2023 by pierssc

[JimC]

On 28/11/2023 at 02:45, ZeZe said:

Hi JimC,

Thanks for the info for Priscilla Selfe. I did download her file a while back but couldn’t find any reference to a hospital ship. Do you know the date the picture was published as it will give a guide for when she served onboard Salta?

Unfortunately the Austen Album isn’t working for me either (from memory – Edith hadn’t named any of the nurses in the album).

Regards ZeZe

 

As the Salta timeline is awol on the post here’s the latest version:

Hi ZeZe,

 

The image, I believe was featured in The Bath Chronicle, dated Saturday September 18, 1915 under the title For King and Country

On 28/11/2023 at 06:51, alf mcm said:

Jim,

  Priscilla is mentioned twice in the HMHS 'Egypt' war diary;-

On 08/09/18 Staff Nurse Miss Priscilla Selfe, QAIMNSR, embarked at Bombay for duty.

On 05/10/18 she disembarked for duty at Station Hospital, Karachi.

Regards,

Alf McM

Hi Alf,

 

Thanks for that. Much appreciated

[ZeZe]

Hi JimC,

Thanks for the newspaper info 

Regards ZeZe

[JimC]

On 27/11/2023 at 23:12, alf mcm said:

Jim,

  Welcome to the forum.

   Priscilla's QAIMNSR service record is available free tp download {once you register} online at The National Archives. A family tree on Ancestry shows that she married Edgar Wallace Moulton in Karachi in 1919. Unfortunately no photo of her. Priscilla's service record is under her married name of Moulton. Name Moulton, Priscilla | The National Archives  I'm not sure if these records mention Salta, but you should still find them interesting.

Regards,

Alf McM

Hi Alf,

Apologies mate, I completely missed this. Fantastic! I'm registered, so will go have a look now. Much appreciated

Jim

[alf mcm]

Hello Jim,

   The National Archives also has 2 medal index cards for Priscilla. Search results: selfe nursing | The National Archives

A look on the 1914-15 medal roll on Ancestry shows a hospital ship name for some nurses. I believe that this means they were serving on these ships as their first service abroad. If no ship is named then the nurses would have travelled as passengers if they were serving abroad.

Regards,

Alf McM