H.M.HS. Salta - from the Gallipoli period to her sinking, 10th April 1917

[ZeZe]

Hi

A timeline for H.M.H.S. Salta – for the sinking of Salta there’s a lot of info already on GWF & the internet so I’m only highlighting what may be new or less well known.

Gallipoli Period & 1916

I had hoped to be able to identify some of the nurses in the album compiled by Edith Austen album (on page 002). The two group photos may pre date Edith’s time on Salta. The Matron could well be Ina Humfrey (Q.A.I.M.N.S. tippet) – unfortunately her posting date to Salta is recorded in a letter but not the transfer date. Five tippet badges on show are Q.A.I.M.N.S. Reserve, one T.F.N.S. and I cannot see any N.Z.A.N.S. badge so the group photos may pre date December 1915. Two of the standing nurses uniforms are different – are they V.A.D or off duty nurses?

Edith Austen’s photo album:

https://ndhadeliver.natlib.govt.nz/delivery/DeliveryManagerServlet?dps_pid=IE11639442&dps_custom_att_1=emu

One nurse who can be identified in the album is N.Z.A.N.S. Ada Gilbert Hawken who died at Alexandria of typhoid, 28/10/1915.

* * * * *

Alf McM found the probable cause of the break in nursing staff on board Salta, from early October 1916 to end of March 1917 in the war diaries of Maud McCarthy, Matron-in-Chief, B.E.F.

3rd October 1916

‘Received letter from A/Matron of the Salta telling me of narrow escape of a serious accident having happened to the ship off the Isle of Wight – it ran ashore but only slight damage was done, but the 1st Officer shot himself. No panic and no harm done to anyone.’

Salta must have suffered more damage than the above report suggests. From the nurse records it appears Salta was not at sea until her final voyage to Le Havre. Perhaps Salta was dry docked for repairs to the hull or had a refit. Can anyone confirm this?

Sinking 10th April 1917

The seven Letitia nursing staff had disembarked about 19th March 1917 and had been temporary assigned to hospital train duty out of Southampton. For four of the other five nurses Salta was their first posting away from a Home Station. All twelve joined Salta on the 6th April 1917.

Background – extracts from Lines of Communication. Havre Base: Director Medical Services (1917)

31/03/1917

Gloucester Castle Sailed, 398 cases; Grantully sailed, 544 cases. (later in the day) D.N.T.O. states that all sailings of Hospital Ships are cancelled for the present.

01/04/1917

H.S. Warilda having 700 cases on board … is now anchored in the Roads. No other hospital ship reported. Sailings still suspended.

02/04/1917 to 09/04/1917

No hospital ship sailings.

With the port closed for over a week the hospitals at Le Havre must have been full of wounded soldiers waiting for transport to England and pressure was mounting to re-open.

10/04/1917

Port still closed. Hospital ships expected tonight. H.S. Salta struck a mine & (this part is difficult to read) rank & file found in the sea was 80, ?? sisters brought in – 71 others, also one off another ship H.M.S. P.26

13/04/1917

The following hospital ships sailed for Southampton under Escort. 

Grantully Castle, 543 cases, Warilda, with 653, Panama with 398, Lanfranc with 400 & Western Australia with 326. These ships would not accept any cases with long splints on, as they said they could not get them off if the ships hit a mine.

* * * * *

There is one first hand account in file WO 399/9330 of Elizabeth Young.

I got into the lifeboat direct from the “Salta” and was rescued from that by H.M.S. ‘Druid”. The greater number of those in the water were rescued by H.M Patrol “Boat 26” which was afterwards mined and all the rescued on board were lost.

The L.G. citation for the award of the Albert Medal to Pte Bodsworth also has a first hand account of him saving an unnamed nurse.

….. All the occupants of the boat were rescued except a Hospital Sister and Private Bodsworth. The former was so exhausted that she was unable to hold the ropes thrown to her, and eventually became unconscious. Although he might have been rescued, Private Bodsworth persisted in remaining in the boat with the Sister, and, after she had fallen overboard and been hauled back again, he finally succeeded in placing a line round her body, by means of which she was hauled on board the " Druid."…..

Agnes Mann’s file WO 399/5581 has as strange anomaly.

Her father writes to the Head Office in June 1918 stating he has heard that his daughter’s body was washed ashore. He wants to know why he was not advised of this and that a ‘great injustice has been done’.

There is a note of the reply to him: ‘We have no information of the recovery of the body. A memorial cross has been erected ….etc.

However in the file is a telegram transcript (not to be communicated outside the War Office) dated 6th June 1917: ‘Body of Nurse bearing cape Q.A.I.M.N.S.R. washed up yesterday. Cape shows letter A. Greig Mann. Supposed Nursing Sister late H.M.H.S. Salta’

Perhaps the identification wasn’t certain enough which is why the authorities didn’t want to inform the relatives either at the time or when Agnes’ father wrote a year later.

Eveline Dawson’s file WO 399/2122 contains both an account by the Military Foot Policeman who found her body on the beach and also a report of her funeral (lead by the Scottish Pipers) on 28th June 1917.

* * * * *

The entries from the War Diaries of Maud McCarthy covering this period (previously posted by Alf McM).

07.06.17

Hospital Ship “Salta”: Received telephone message from DDMS Havre, saying that the body of a Nursing Sister had been washed up and it was thought to be that of Miss A. G. Mann of the Hospital Ship “Salta” – he asked if any particulars could be supplied about her. Replied that there was no nominal roll of the staff of Hospital Ship “Salta” in this office and that [no] particulars of the nursing staff were available. Suggested that application should be made to DDMS Southampton. The funeral had been arranged to take place on the 7th.

09.06.17

Hospital Ship “Salta”: Memo received from DDMS Havre re the recovery from the sea on June 5th of the body of Staff Nurse A. G. Mann of Hospital Ship “Salta”. The War Office had been informed by wire, and arrangements for the funeral had been made by OC 2 General Hospital.

16.06.17

Hospital Ship “Salta”: Received letter from Miss Wellman, Matron, 2 General Hospital, saying that the body of a Nursing Sister had been washed up, but could not be identified.

28.07.17

Hospital Ship “Salta”: Miss Hartigan, A/Principal Matron, Etaples, reported that the body of a Nursing Sister ANSR had been washed up at Merlimont Plage. The number on badge was 844 – name E. M. Dawson. The funeral had been arranged for the 29th – 9.30 a.m. Miss Hartigan reported that she was sending flowers for the Matron-in-Chief and Nursing Staff, and would write an account of the funeral to forward to the War Office.

* * * * *

Wikipedia states: ‘Of the 205 passengers and crew members, 9 nurses, 42 members of the Royal Army Medical Corps (RAMC) and 79 crew drowned.’

I’m not sure if these figures are correct. I have 80 crew who died – Andrew Binnie PHILP RNVR may have been missed. I’ve included the 18 from the crew of H.M.S. P.26 who were casualties as a direct result of Salta straying into the mines. Those men seem to be forgotten in most accounts. Any corrections / additions wellcome.

Links

GWF https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/14557-salta-hospital-ship/

Lines of Communication. Havre Base

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/b9a62a847c6645ccb0f5d14ddd7bbbf5

War Diaries of Maud McCarthy

http://www.scarletfinders.co.uk/110.html

Kathleen Mann (not a relation of Agnes), evidence of her being on board Salta in the Gallipoli period – excerpts from her diary & photo:

https://insider.spink.com/2022/09/01/kathleen-summer-2022/

Albert Medal to Pte. Samuel Arnold Bodsworth:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30472/page/734/data.pdf

regards ZeZe

 

Edited 25 October , 2022 by ZeZe

[alf mcm]

Very interesting ZeZe,

I don't think the 2 women not in uniform are VAD's or off duty. They are both wearing the same outfits so belong to some organization. 

Alice Annie JOLL’s TFNS service record is at WO/399/12435

Kathleen MANN’s QAIMNS service record is at WO/399/5586

Olive PEARSON’s TFNS service record is at WO/399/13804

Can't find Kathleen Mann's record.

Regards,

Alf McM

  

[seaJane]

2 hours ago, alf mcm said:

Kathleen MANN’s QAIMNS service record is

 

2 hours ago, alf mcm said:

Can't find Kathleen Mann's record

A wrong name somewhere Alf?

[alf mcm]

Oops!

  I meant to say Alice Maud BIRKS.

Regards,

Alf McM

[alf mcm]

I think I have just found it! Under the name of Alice BERKS, WO/399/585. Can't check as still at work.

Regards,

Alf McM

[ZeZe]

Hi Alf McM,

I’ve been wanting to find Alice Birks’ file for a long time. Just read it through the watermark as still maxed out with TNA and can see she joined 31/01/1915 & transferred to Alex. on 09/041916 - a very long period of service on Salta.

Correction to her timeline - Alice wasn't from Nevasa pre joining Salta - what I thought was 31/10/1914 on the MIC is 31/101917, this later date of joining Nevasa is also confirmed in her file.

Thanks.

regards ZeZe

Edited 25 October , 2022 by ZeZe

[ZeZe]

Hi

Another first hand account found on Trove - The Mercury (Hobart, Tas. 1860 – 1954) Thursday, 13 September 1917 - Page 2

Link - https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/1087400?searchTerm=salta

THE LOSS OF THE SALTA. TASMANIAN'S GALLANTRY SAVES TWENTY LIVES.

Mr. Frank Innes, eldest son of Councillor W. Innes, of Devonport, who is serving in the British Navy as first lieutenant of H.M.S. Druid, writing to his parents, states:- …….. 'What I received the medal (Royal Humane Society's silver medal) for was this - When the hospital ship Salta was mined on the 10th April, I jumped overboard in a gale of wind, with a heavy sea, running, and swam to the rescuing boat with a line, and had her hauled alongside our ship. I stayed on the boat and bent lines on the passengers, and had them hauled safely on board. They were frozen stiff with the cold and exposure, and could not help themselves. I managed to get 18 men and two women (nurses) up safely, and only lost two or three through being crushed between the boats and the ship's side, owing to the big sea which was running. It was freezing at the time, and I was cold, I can tell you. The Admiral complimented me on mv conduct, etc.’ …... 

Regards ZeZe

[alf mcm]

Thanks for posting this, he certainly deserved his award.

Regards,

Alf McM

[KGB]

Where does the name "Salta" originate? 

[alf mcm]

KGB,

  It's probably named after the capital city and province of Salta in Argentina. This page shows that it was lent to the Admiralty for £3,150 per month.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/2280110:1687?tid=&pid=&queryId=6761cce0188ebc6fcb3787e9a15a3cf2&_phsrc=SIn3424&_phstart=successSource

Regards,

Alf McM

[KGB]

On 06/11/2022 at 10:45, alf mcm said:

KGB,

  It's probably named after the capital city and province of Salta in Argentina. This page shows that it was lent to the Admiralty for £3,150 per month.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/2280110:1687?tid=&pid=&queryId=6761cce0188ebc6fcb3787e9a15a3cf2&_phsrc=SIn3424&_phstart=successSource

Regards,

Alf McM

A ha, so basically Spanish then? Did not sound pukka British to me;)

[alantwo]

I'm not sure if this fits-in with the aims of the topic but would a list of personnel embarking on HS Salta at Southampton on 25/7/15 for the Mediterranean be of interest, I'll post or pm to anyone if so.

Regards

Alan

[alf mcm]

Alan,

  I would be extremely interested to see such a list. If you can, please put it on the forum as I am sure it will be of interest to others. 

Regards,

Alf McM

[ZeZe]

Hi

Back to the naming of Salta - according to Wiki, Salta was built for Société Générale de Transport Maritimes (S.G.T.M.), 1911.

Link to their fleet here. https://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/sgtm.shtml

Ships names are mostly a mix of French, North African & South American regions, cities and mountains. There are at least two more hospital ships in the fleet – Formosa & Valdivia (another South American city).

I too would be interested in a list of Salta personnel, July 1915.

Regards ZeZe

Edited 7 November , 2022 by ZeZe

[alantwo]

21 hours ago, alf mcm said:

Alan,

  I would be extremely interested to see such a list. If you can, please put it on the forum as I am sure it will be of interest to others. 

Regards,

Alf McM

Alf

Four images attached below, a total of 195 nurses. At the bottom of the second image there is a Miss O Pearson which may (or may not) be the Olive Pearson you have mentioned above; I'll leave it for you to check.

If of interest HS Valdivia embarked the same day from Southampton for the MEF, I have one image of the RAMC Officers who embarked, about 15 names.

Alan

For reference, my photographs of the embarkation file at TNA Kew

Edited 8 November , 2022 by alantwo

[alf mcm]

Thanks Alan,

  Very interesting. This appears to be a list of nurses embarked for passage, rather than for duty. There is only one 'O. Pearson' with a nursing record at TNA, and that is of course Olive Pearson. This suggests that Olive was probably not part of the ship's nursing staff.

Regards,

Alf McM

[ZeZe]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for posting the embarkation return. I’ve been going through the names cross-checking MIC’s & TNA nurse files to identify the names. Finished the first two pages – halfway through! Some are familiar names already on the database but I have also found quite a few new ‘Gallipoli Hospital Ship’ nurses.

Can I ask a couple of questions - Is this a National Archives document from Kew? Do you think similar embarkation returns exist for other hospital ships?

*****

From a couple of names from the list:

Page 2, 10 up from the bottom: L. Le BROCQ WO 399/12719 (Louise – TFNS file, she has two files). Within the file, for some reason, a copy of the ‘1912 Standing Orders for the Territorial Force Nursing Service’ booklet has been scanned. The small but detailed book covers all sorts of topics – regulations, discipline, uniform details, pay, etc. There are four appendices which include fifty-four ‘Instructions for Members when mobilised’. The booklet may be of interest if not seen before.

*****

Page 2, 6 up from the bottom: L. SWAIN who I believe is Lucy Melton SWAIN who very sadly died from dysentery in No.19 Gen Hospital, Alexandra on 31st August 1915. 

“Salta” departed England on 25th July 1915 and, arrived Alexandria 6th August.

In the file WO 399/14830 there is an indication Lucy too served on a hospital ship. A letter from the Matron-in-Chief T.F.N.S., states Lucy was ‘seconded on the 31st to the Dardanelles’. Lucy was possibly transferred to another ship which sailed to Gallipoli where she contracted the infection from the wounded and sick soldiers evacuated from the beaches.

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/4967366

Lucy is buried at Alexandria (Chatby) Military And War Memorial Cemetery. A photo, taken by Nurse May of the wreath and Lucy’s final resting place was forwarded to her sisters to keep. Before Nurse May left Alexandria two V.A.D.’s were buried beside Lucy.

Two V.A.D.’s buried soon after Lucy are likely to be Florence Emily SMALES died 13/10/15 and Mabel Elizabeth CHADWICK died 15/10/15.

Nurse May is probably Ellen Martha MAY T.F.N.S. Her MIC states Dardanelles 24/07/15, & on page 4, 11 down from top, E. May is listed on the embarkation return - another file to download (WO 399/13236) & read.

regards ZeZe

[alantwo]

On 20/11/2022 at 09:39, ZeZe said:

Hi Alan,

Can I ask a couple of questions - Is this a National Archives document from Kew? Do you think similar embarkation returns exist for other hospital ships?

 

Hi ZeZe

Yes, I took the photographs of the Embarkation file at the National Archives Kew, I don’t have the reference to hand but I can send it to you if you need it. I think there are other hospital ships but I haven’t catalogued all the images I took as my main interest is artillerymen at Gallipoli. I did however photograph whole files so I’ll take a look and let you know.

Regards

Alan

[alantwo]

On 20/11/2022 at 09:39, ZeZe said:

Do you think similar embarkation returns exist for other hospital ships?

 

ZeZe

The photographs previously posted were from WO 25/3536.

Focusing solely on nurses that appear in these returns, in this file, the ships are:

 

Mauretania - Embarked Liverpool for (?) 9/7/15. 20 Nurses, Canadian Nursing Service and 28 AAIMNS Reserve.

Simla - Embarked Devonport for Gibraltar, Malta and Egypt 12/7/15. 50 Nurses for Egypt.

Themistocles - Embarked Devonport for Gibraltar, Malta and Egypt 18/7/15.  1 Matron and 29 Sisters. The Matron is noted as MEF.

Derfflinger - Embarked Devonport for (?) 18/7/15. 1 Sister and 48 Nurses.

Northland - Embarked Devonport for MEF 19/7/15. 33 QAIMNS Nurses and 49 QAIMNS Sisters.

Southland - Embarked Devonport for Mediterranean 24/7/15. 52 QAIMNS.

HS Salta - Embarked Southampton for Mediterranean 25/7/15. Posted above.

Basilian - Embarked Liverpool for (?) 27/7/15. 1 Matron, 1 Sister and 3 Staff Nurses.

Glenart Castle - Embarked Southampton for Egypt 23/8/15. 51 Nurses (45 named).

Karapara - Embarked Southampton 27/8/15. QAIMNS 1 Matron, 2 Sisters and 4 Nurses – staff on ship. 13 Nursing Service – for Gibraltar.

HS Asturias - Embarked Southampton for Malta 2/9/15. 211 Nurses.

HS Aquitana - Embarked Southampton for Mudros 3/9/15. 21 Nurses – not named.

Dongola - Embarked Portland for Mediterranean 7/9/15. 7 Nursing Sisters.

Oxfordshire - Embarked Southampton for Malta 11/9/15. 1 Doctor and 36 Nurses for Serbia – not named.

Galeka - Embarked Southampton for Egypt 13/9/15. 49 Nurses. 13 Nurses ex Alaunia and 6 Nurses ex Demosthenes. Names also typed. 

HS Delta - Embarked Southampton for Egypt 24/9/15. 74 Nurses – 9 crossed out.

SS Ismailia - Embarked Avonmouth for Gibraltar, Malta etc. 2 Nurses for Gibraltar, Mrs Ashland for Hospital Malta (nurse?) and 6 Nurses Serbian Relief Fund for Mediterranean.

HS Hunslett - Embarked Liverpool for Mediterranean Ports. 6 Staff Nurses.

 

Regards

Alan

[ZeZe]

Hi Alan,

Thanks for posting the list of ships & numbers of nurses. Nurses serving on the staff of the ship rather than those ‘in transit’ are really what I need for the database. e.g Karapara, for that period have four:

Margaret Scott RAM; Mary Josephine LYNCH; Katie Payne HODGE; Rosalind Randolph Eppes (Linda) STOW

Hopefully these four are listed along with three new names.

Likewise Alaunia nurses returning to Alexandria on Galeka – I have these names but not positively identified them all. Even confirmation of initials would be helpful.

M GERMAN; (Elsie Marion ?) HEWER; (Marion M ?) MURPHY; (Nita ?) SCOTT; Janet FREWIN; (not Mary) GREGORY; Lilian Maud JEANS; ? JEFFREYS; Ada Hannah WORMALD; Florence OPPENHEIMER

Other Alaunia possibles, period of service is uncertain:

(Ellen Constance ?) FRANKLIN; Annie ROSS; Mary HOLMES

Otherwise I’m most interested in H.M.H.S. Dongola.

regards ZeZe

[alf mcm]

Hello Alan,

  You have a great resource. I was unaware such lists existed until your earlier post.

  I have been compiling a list of VAD's who were disembarked at Malta, based on the British War and Victory Medal rolls. The VAD medal rolls show 2 dates, with the second being when they left Malta. For the date of 02/09/15 for Asturias I have 145 names so far. I had assumed that 02/09/15 was the date they landed in Malta but would like confirmation. I am unsure if the dates on the medal rolls are for when they left the U.K., or for when they landed in Malta, although I suspect it was the latter. The number of 211 Nurses may include Trained Nurses as well as VAD's. I would be interested in seeing this list whenever you can get a chance to post it.

Regards,

Alf McM

 

[alantwo]

On 25/11/2022 at 16:48, ZeZe said:

Margaret Scott RAM; Mary Josephine LYNCH; Katie Payne HODGE; Rosalind Randolph Eppes (Linda) STOW

Hopefully these four are listed along with three new names.

Hi ZeZe

The four nurses named in your post are in the photograph below, along with three new names, all with initials. I hope that helps.

For reference, my photograph of the embarkation file at TNA Kew.

Kind regards

Alan

[alantwo]

On 25/11/2022 at 16:48, ZeZe said:

M GERMAN; (Elsie Marion ?) HEWER; (Marion M ?) MURPHY; (Nita ?) SCOTT; Janet FREWIN; (not Mary) GREGORY; Lilian Maud JEANS; ? JEFFREYS; Ada Hannah WORMALD; Florence OPPENHEIMER

Hi ZeZe

Of the 13 nurses listed, all nine nurses mentioned in your post are recorded on the embarkations return with their initials, please see below.

Again, for reference my photograph of the embarkation file at TNA Kew.

Kind regards

Alan

Edit - Ross also mentioned. Franklin looks like Frankland but I'll leave it to you to interpret.

Edited 27 November , 2022 by alantwo

[alantwo]

On 25/11/2022 at 17:35, alf mcm said:

For the date of 02/09/15 for Asturias

Alf

Five photographs I took from the embarkation file at TNA Kew. The last image was slightly blurred, I've adjusted and sharpened the image hence the slightly different colour, tone, but hopefully it's a little more readable.

Kind regards

Alan

 

[alf mcm]

Thanks Alan,

  This is very helpful. I will work my way through the list and see who I have missed. They may be on medal rolls I haven't checked yet.

Regards,

Alf McM