JOSTURM Posted 21 October , 2022 Share Posted 21 October , 2022 This is my paternal grandfather as a Special constable in Deptford area in the early 1930's when he was 32-5. Between 1915-1919 he served firstly in 12th East Surrey Regiment, then RMLI as a Private. In 1920-21 he was in the 22nd London Regiment TA and in 1932 was in the 167th Field Ambulance TA. In the photograph I am trying to identify the third medal on the right next to his BWM and VM, if anyone can assist. Many thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 21 October , 2022 Share Posted 21 October , 2022 Any chance of a high res scan of the medals? It may help in identification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 21 October , 2022 Share Posted 21 October , 2022 If it’s a territorial (efficiency) medal then there is a roll online think it was forces war records (not one I subscribe to sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 21 October , 2022 Share Posted 21 October , 2022 It's kind of hard to make out the suspension, appears to be straight so not an EM, am thinking Special Constabulary Long Service medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOSTURM Posted 21 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2022 41 minutes ago, Allan1892 said: Any chance of a high res scan of the medals? It may help in identification. Hi, difficult as the photo is already enlarged. The medal ribbon seems to be black-white-black ribbon - her is another shot 44 minutes ago, Allan1892 said: Any chance of a high res scan of the medals? It may help in identification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOSTURM Posted 21 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2022 35 minutes ago, RNCVR said: It's kind of hard to make out the suspension, appears to be straight so not an EM, am thinking Special Constabulary Long Service medal. I have my other grandfathers special constabulary long service medal which has a white/black/white/red/white/black/white striping, also he got it in 1962 after 42 years service, but this guy had only been in the specials for a short time. I thought it might be St John's Ambulance but theire ribbons seem to be white/black/white. 51 minutes ago, Coldstreamer said: If it’s a territorial (efficiency) medal then there is a roll online think it was forces war records (not one I subscribe to sorry) that's yellow and green right ? and the medal is oval. This medal seems to be silver/metal and round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOSTURM Posted 21 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2022 regarding the suspension, it seems to be flate/square like the BWM. what medal ribbons existed at that period which were black/white/black or navy blue/white/navy blue ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 21 October , 2022 Share Posted 21 October , 2022 1 hour ago, JOSTURM said: I have my other grandfathers special constabulary long service medal which has a white/black/white/red/white/black/white striping, also he got it in 1962 after 42 years service, but this guy had only been in the specials for a short time. I thought it might be St John's Ambulance but their ribbons seem to be white/black/white. Yes very possible, St Johns medal would fit with alternating black & white stripes on ribbon. What we really need is a clearer photo but dont expect that would be possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 21 October , 2022 Share Posted 21 October , 2022 1 hour ago, JOSTURM said: that's yellow and green right ? and the medal is oval. This medal seems to be silver/metal and round. Yes, TEM yellow & green ribbon on an oval medal with ring suspension. This policeman's medal suspension appears to be straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58 Div Mule Posted 21 October , 2022 Share Posted 21 October , 2022 An original black and white photo might be helpful. I too suspect a St John Ambulance medal which would be relevant to a policeman and 167 FA TA. Many policemen in the 20’s and 30’s were qualified first aiders. 58 DM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 Mine was more to eliminate than anything as it’s something that can be proven rather than speculated If I had to guess it would be st John’s didn’t some police areas have their own unique medals back then ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 There's an older photo of a policeman with what maybe the same medal but with a clasp as well. Nothing on that site which IDs it though. https://andrewfrederickblog.wordpress.com/2018/04/09/the-secret-meaning-of-medal-worn-by-police-officers-when-the-give-evidence-in-court/comment-page-1/ There's a Reading Borough Police Bravery Medal which is blue/white/blue and a Southend Police Good Service Medal - blue/silver white/blue. Given that his hands are not flesh coloured who knows what pixels have been adjusted on the ribbon. A Birmingham Special Constable Medal could be viable. http://www.frontiernet.net/~ericbush/MiSh/Police.html TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 Can you post the original monochrome image? Colourized images do not represent the real colour of anything when converted from a monochrome image, which contains no colour data merely tonal gradations. So you can make no assumption whatsoever about the real life colours in the subject. (Look at his left boot - did the Met Police really issue officers with green boots?) The colorization process whether done manually, or by computer only supplies colour that the manual operator or the computer believes looks plausible. So although there is discussion here about a "white and black" ribbon, in reality it could be any combination of colours that appear light and dark on the film used to take the image - probably panchromatic by the 1930s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 6 hours ago, Coldstreamer said: Mine was more to eliminate than anything as it’s something that can be proven rather than speculated If I had to guess it would be st John’s didn’t some police areas have their own unique medals back then ? Isnt St. John’s black-white-black-white-black though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 (edited) Came across a site called United Kingdom : Ribbon Chart (link below) -- can't see anything that is Black/White/Black. As MrEd said, Just now, MrEd said: Isnt St. John’s black-white-black-white-black though? The Ribbon Chart showS St John's as W/B/W/B/W ODM of the United Kingdom: Ribbon Chart (medals.org.uk) Edited 22 October , 2022 by Allan1892 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 1 hour ago, Allan1892 said: Came across a site called United Kingdom : Ribbon Chart (link below) -- can't see anything that is Black/White/Black. As MrEd said, The Ribbon Chart showS St John's as W/B/W/B/W ODM of the United Kingdom: Ribbon Chart (medals.org.uk) Aah okay, I was going from memory - either way it’s not b-w-b. i wonder if the colouring of the photo has mucked it up and we aren’t actually looking at either black or white? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 2 hours ago, MrEd said: Isnt St. John’s black-white-black-white-black though? My thoughts too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOSTURM Posted 22 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2022 7 hours ago, TEW said: There's an older photo of a policeman with what maybe the same medal but with a clasp as well. Nothing on that site which IDs it though. https://andrewfrederickblog.wordpress.com/2018/04/09/the-secret-meaning-of-medal-worn-by-police-officers-when-the-give-evidence-in-court/comment-page-1/ There's a Reading Borough Police Bravery Medal which is blue/white/blue and a Southend Police Good Service Medal - blue/silver white/blue. Given that his hands are not flesh coloured who knows what pixels have been adjusted on the ribbon. A Birmingham Special Constable Medal could be viable. http://www.frontiernet.net/~ericbush/MiSh/Police.html TEW Hi, and thanks all for your contributions so far. 1. The only place he was a special was in Deptford/Lewisham/Greenwich area and only in the 1930's. 2. I have yet to see a St John's Ambulance Medal with black-white-black ribbon stripe. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick M Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 Is it a coronation medal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOSTURM Posted 22 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2022 Just now, Mick M said: Is it a coronation medal? were the Edward V111 or George V1 coronation medal ribbons striped in this way. I only have the Elizabeth 11 ribbon which is whit-red-blue-red-blue-red-white ? The photo could be as late as 1936 when he was 38. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick M Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 1 minute ago, JOSTURM said: were the Edward V111 or George V1 coronation medal ribbons striped in this way. I only have the Elizabeth 11 ribbon which is whit-red-blue-red-blue-red-white ? The photo could be as late as 1936 when he was 38. Just looked at George V and the mount is wrong. It's more like a WW2 defence medal.the mount that it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick M Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 Not sure about this but the ribbon matches, was the medal struck without the clasp? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrEd Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, GWF1967 said: My thoughts too. That’s how I remember it, the photo of the chap definitely isn’t St. John Edited 22 October , 2022 by MrEd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 3 hours ago, JOSTURM said: were the Edward V111 or George V1 coronation medal ribbons striped in this way. I only have the Elizabeth 11 ribbon which is whit-red-blue-red-blue-red-white ? The photo could be as late as 1936 when he was 38. The Coronation & Jubilee medals were all ring suspensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 22 October , 2022 Share Posted 22 October , 2022 3 hours ago, Mick M said: It's more like a WW2 defence medal. the mount that it. I dont think its a Defence medal, the suspension just does not look right, it appears somewhat rounded at the ends. It might be some kind of unofficial medal?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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