Possibly not on the CWGC website

[Cheshire22]

9 hours ago, basiloxford said:

It's also interesting that the address given on the death certificate is the same address as recorded in the Phillips Park Cemetery register. 

George's sister was also living at this address, and as both of his parents were dead by this time, she was probably responsible for his former occupation being included in the cemetery register. 

This still doesn't explain how his death was not picked up by the IWGC. 

Regards

Barry.

I have often wonder, how the IWGC collected information on the graves in the UK.  

Did they walk around each cemetery and churchyards looking for headstones which carried any dates from 1914 to 1921 for any details of military service. 
 

also if they asked the  vicar, church wardens about any military burial etc 

In my opinion IFCP are doing this job now

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Well done basiloxford.

An open and shut case.

I'm sure that @Terry Denham will be most interested in your findings.

[basiloxford]

Good idea Paul, i will message Terry this morning. 

 

[8055Bell]

The CWGC Archive has some useful documents about post Armistice deaths and burials in civilian plots.  IWGC basically used SDGW as the principal data and supplemented this with Battalion returns. Hence men who died after discharge were generally omitted.  There were comments about reviewing municipal burials in the period but this never seems to have been taken forward due to limited resources.  Nobody had the bright idea of looking at the pension records at the time, or Effects.

We now have the distinct advantage of having multiple datasets to cross-check and these were not so accessible in the 1920s.  I fully accept that IFCP and the team of volunteers is doing the job that had been identified and would ideally have been done a century ago.

I am sure Terry will process this case in due course.  I am also waiting for cases to be added to the list on the IFCP forum.  He is swamped by the grave find data for the vast swathe of approvals that have come through. It's great for the volunteers and the men concerned but more than a full time task for Terry.

Tim

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, 8055Bell said:

I am also waiting for cases to be added to the list on the IFCP forum

It's always possible to got straight to CWGC with a 'Non-Comm' case if you wish. IFCP is not obligatory.

The choice is yours.

M

[8055Bell]

1. Direct approaches to CWGC are fine.  I reckon I've saved a fortune on DCs with advice from Terry and this submission is much simpler and quicker through IFCP.  I also think it makes CWGC and MoD job easier by having consistency.

[Cheshire22]

2 hours ago, 8055Bell said:

The CWGC Archive has some useful documents about post Armistice deaths and burials in civilian plots.  IWGC basically used SDGW as the principal data and supplemented this with Battalion returns. Hence men who died after discharge were generally omitted.  There were comments about reviewing municipal burials in the period but this never seems to have been taken forward due to limited resources.  Nobody had the bright idea of looking at the pension records at the time, or Effects.

We now have the distinct advantage of having multiple datasets to cross-check and these were not so accessible in the 1920s.  I fully accept that IFCP and the team of volunteers is doing the job that had been identified and would ideally have been done a century ago.

I am sure Terry will process this case in due course.  I am also waiting for cases to be added to the list on the IFCP forum.  He is swamped by the grave find data for the vast swathe of approvals that have come through. It's great for the volunteers and the men concerned but more than a full time task for Terry.

Tim

I echo your thoughts on this, the IFCP are doing a great piece of work. 
 

however we also must applauded people like Richard Laughton, the trench rat, micks, Andy and too many to name who look at the graves registration report forms, concentration of burial / burial returns and giving the unknowns their names back once more.  
 

in the 20’s and 30’s it would have taken a number of people over months or years to put a name to an unknown, where today with access to main records, it could possibly taken only a couple of hours but could a number of years before the authorities agree to the original findings

 it’s a pity, there is no group like the IFCP looking at the unknowns buried across the western front 

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, 8055Bell said:

Direct approaches to CWGC are fine.  I reckon I've saved a fortune on DCs with advice from Terry and this submission is much simpler and quicker through IFCP.  I also think it makes CWGC and MoD job easier by having consistency.

35 minutes ago, Cheshire22 said:

I echo your thoughts on this, the IFCP are doing a great piece of work. 

I too acknowledge and praise the good work done by IFCP but it was earlier suggested "He [Terry] is swamped by the grave find data for the vast swathe of approvals that have come through."

Going independently may bypass any potential IFPC log jam and I don't wholly subscribe to the notion that "it makes CWGC and MoD job easier by having consistency" - after all CWGC/MoD are professionals [whereas we are amateurs] = surely cerebrally they should be able to cope.  Of course therein is revealled a further log jam, probably based on their limited logistical capacity!

However, better to get 'Unknown' and 'Non-Comm'cases in, in any which way, and let the CWGC and MoD sort things out rather than be put off and not make any submission(s).

I acknowlege, laud and encourage all independent submitters too.

M

Edited 13 December , 2022 by Matlock1418

[basiloxford]

Hi everyone, 

I've been in contact with Terry Denham, and he thinks that we have a good case for George Henderson. 

He will soon be in a position to begin the process of getting Henderson accepted, and hopefully it will not take too long, as he was still serving at the time of death. 

Barry.

[keithmroberts]

Good luck, I have a man in the queue who died while within his 4 weeks furlough in early 1919, and whose death is even mentioned on his service history. With Terry's help his case was submitted in 2020 complete with a death cert and his service record showing the official documents regarding his death. I'm afraid he is still waiting; not Terry's fault, just covid and limited resources in MOD and presumably CWGC.  Even in an identified grave alongside the (private) war grave of one of his brothers. I am in contact with the family who have been very patient.

I wonder if the long neglected war dead from the East Africa campaign have slowed things up more recently as well.

Keith

[basiloxford]

Hi everyone, 

I had an email from Terry Denham at the weekend to say that George has now been accepted for commemoration by the CWGC. 

Many thanks' to everyone who helped with information, 

Regards,

Barry. 

Edited 29 February by basiloxford

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Well done Barry.

[Matlock1418]

3 hours ago, basiloxford said:

I had an email from Terry Denham at the weekend to say that George has now been accepted for commemoration by the CWGC. 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/75472428/george-henderson

Always good to hear of a successful application and subsequent commemoration 

M

Edited 29 February by Matlock1418
link

[RussT]

Well Done !

Regards

Russ