Possibly not on the CWGC website

[basiloxford]

Good evening everyone, 

I may be missing something, but L cannot find this guy on the CWGC website. His name is George Henderson of the Lancashire Fusiliers, and according to a death notice in the Oxford Chronicle newspaper dated 07/07/1916, Henderson died at the Base Hospital in Oxford on 04/07/1916. He had apparently been wounded in the jaw in France, and having been transferred to England, he was put on a hospital train going north when his condition began to cause concern, and he was taken off the train in Oxford on 03/07/1916, and died in the operating theatre at the Base Hospital the following day. I've have found him on SDGW where his service shows him serving with the 2nd Bn. Lancashire Fusiliers as Pte 4925, and his date of death as 04/07/1916. Mistakenly his death was recorded as France & Flanders. The Soldiers Effects Register correctly shows his death at the 3rd Southern General Hospital, Oxford, and again he was serving with the 2nd Lancashire Fusiliers. He was again recorded as a Pte with a slightly different service No. 1/4925. The GRO death index confirms that a George Henderson aged 32 died in Oxford in the 3rd Q 1916. SDGW stated that he was born in Salford, Lancashire, so if he was still living in the same area, presumably this is where he would have been taken for burial. 

The problem is I cannot find him on the CWGC website, so has anyone got a suggestion where to go next?

Regards,

Barry

 

 

[RussT]

Odd, I can't find him either on CWGC.

His 1914/915 medal roll states he died of wounds on 04/07/1916. This roll is for the 1st Bn LF with whom he evidently first served overseas. His BWM/VM medal roll shows he finished with the 2nd Bn via the 3rd Bn, which was, by then, a Reserve Bn in the UK. This might mean he got wounded with the 1st and returned to the UK to recover and went back out to join the 2nd.

His 14/15 roll also has his initial as J whereas his BWM/VM roll has him as George.

There is a PIC for a James Henderson (Royal Highlanders) with the two numbers 3/3177 and 4925. Perhaps that is just a coincidence but it's also a bit odd. This Henderson was from Glasgow and survived so difficult to see any mix up there.

Perhaps starting to look like an IFTC case.

Regards

Russ

 

[chaz]

have you seen a 14-15 star medal roll for J Henderson 4925)   D-Of-W 4-7-16  . 1st Btn Lancashire Fusiliers.

coincidence or mistake?

 

it could be a missing as he died at home, his MiC is not amended as died 

[Cheshire22]

Find a grave 

George Henderson 

burial : Philips Park Cemetery, Miles Platting, manchester 

the date of death is 8 Jul 1916, then later states date is burial date

[Cheshire22]

Cemetery                        Section            Grave & Position - Deceased

Philips Park Cemetery CConsecrated 15 1 Catherine Schofield

Philips Park Cemetery CConsecrated 15 2 George Henderson

Philips Park Cemetery CConsecrated 15 3 Mary Jane Lisett

Philips Park Cemetery CConsecrated 15 4 George Lisett

Name:	George Henderson
Age:	36
Record Type:	Burial
Birth Date:	abt 1880
Death Date:	abt 1916
Burial Date:	8 Jul 1916
Burial Place:	Manchester, Greater Manchester, England
Cemetery:	Philips Park Cemetery
Cemetery Section:	C
Grave Number:	15
Cemetery Notes:	Consecrated
Occupation:	Glass Worker   This is why, he is not on the CWGC register as his occupation has been given as Glass Worker    As we can see from the burial list, that there is a Mary Jane Lisett and the soldiers effects there is a Mary J Lisett

[RussT]

Great find - that has to be him.

There's piles of records/evidence here to submit to CWGC

Russ

[Bardess]

He may already have been picked up by IFCP as I know volunteers were going through the SERs. Perhaps check with @Terry Denham or @PaulC78 first?

[basiloxford]

Thanks for all the replies everyone. 

I found the burial in the Philips Park Cemetery and searched this cemetery through the CWGC website without any success. I've also searched the pension record cards saved by the Western Front Association some years ago and it would seem that a pension was never claimed. The entry on the effects register states that his married sister and a brother recieved his payments, suggesting that he wasn't married, and both of his parents may have been dead. I think it would be a good idea to check with Terry Denham see if the IFCP have picked this man up in their searches. 

Thanks again

Barry

[PaulC78]

Had a look but I also can't find him on CWGC, and he's not on the IFCP list either. Suggest you contact Terry with all relevant details and he will be able to advise further.

[basiloxford]

Many thanks Paul, 

I will get hold of a copy of the newspaper entry which brought his name to light. Along with a death certificate and the entry in the effects register this should be enough to convince the Army / CWGC that George should have been commemorated by the IWGC. 

Thanks again

Barry

[Cheshire22]

It will be interesting to read the Oxford newspaper report, also if there any newspaper reports around the time of the burial and to see the what the death certificate states and also the burial register for the cemetery 

[RussT]

Here is the Report from the Oxford Chronicle, 7th July 1916:

I did search for him in Lancashire/Manchester newspapers but didn't get any relevant hits.

Russ

 

[basiloxford]

 

I've sent for a PDF copy of his death certificate to find out the exact cause of death, but I would be very surprised if it wasn't military connected. 

Thank you for the Oxford Chronicle death notice Russ, that's the same one I found yesterday whilst researching the deaths at the 3rd Southern General Hospital in Oxford. 

Along with the death certificate and the effects register entry, I would hope that he will eventually be added to the CWGC website. 

Barry

[basiloxford]

 

I've contacted Terry Denham reference George Henderson, and he suggested that I source a copy of the burial register at Philips Park Cemetery to prove where George was buried.

I have the transcript off ancestry, but if anyone on the forum could please send me an image of George's entry in the original register I would be grateful. 

Many thanks, 

Barry

[PaulC78]

Burial records for Philips Park Cemetery can be downloaded from Manchester City Council (for a fee).

https://www.burialrecords.manchester.gov.uk/

[Cheshire22]

GenImage.pdf

GenImage.pdf

[Cheshire22]

Gen Image 2.pdf

[basiloxford]

Cheshire22, 

Your a star.

Thank you very much, I'm sure your input will help with the submission when the DC arrives. 

Regards

Barry.

[Cheshire22]

On 22/10/2022 at 13:38, basiloxford said:

Cheshire22, 

Your a star.

Thank you very much, I'm sure your input will help with the submission when the DC arrives. 

Regards

Barry.

Any further update of this 

[basiloxford]

Hello again, 

I sent copy of the death certificate and the additional paperwork to Terry Denham at the end of October, but did not receive a reply. 

I'm assuming that Terry's application is going through the system, and as Henderson was a serving soldier at the time of his death, hopefully it won't take too long. 

regards. 

Barry

[Cheshire22]

2 hours ago, basiloxford said:

Hello again, 

I sent copy of the death certificate and the additional paperwork to Terry Denham at the end of October, but did not receive a reply. 

I'm assuming that Terry's application is going through the system, and as Henderson was a serving soldier at the time of his death, hopefully it won't take too long. 

regards. 

Barry

Thank you for your reply 

I was thinking more of what the cause of death, place of death and occupation that appears on the death certificate 

[basiloxford]

Sorry mate I just thought you were looking for an update. 

The death certificate gave his home address in Manchester, and his rank (Pte), number (1/4925) and regiment (2nd Bn. Lancashire Regt) in the occupation section, and his death was caused by (1) Gun-shot wound to mouth (recieved in action), (2) secondary haemorrhage - P.M. The informant was a Lieutenant and Quartermaster at the 3rd Southern General hospital. The was also given as his place of death on 4 July 1916. Additionally the parish of St. Peter-in-the-East was also recorded, and this suggests that he died at the Examination Schools on the High Street, as this was the Base Hospital for the 3rd Southern General Hospital, and falls within this parish. I've also found references to soldiers remains being removed from the base hospital after death and placed in the church until being buried or removed the following day. George's age was recorded as 34 years-old. It would seem that the report in the Oxford Chronicle was in-fact correct, and stating that he was wounded on Saturday morning, this means that he would have been an early casualty on the first day of the Battle of the Somme. 

Hope this was what you were looking for, 

Regards, 

Barry

[Cheshire22]

1 hour ago, basiloxford said:

Sorry mate I just thought you were looking for an update. 

The death certificate gave his home address in Manchester, and his rank (Pte), number (1/4925) and regiment (2nd Bn. Lancashire Regt) in the occupation section, and his death was caused by (1) Gun-shot wound to mouth (recieved in action), (2) secondary haemorrhage - P.M. The informant was a Lieutenant and Quartermaster at the 3rd Southern General hospital. The was also given as his place of death on 4 July 1916. Additionally the parish of St. Peter-in-the-East was also recorded, and this suggests that he died at the Examination Schools on the High Street, as this was the Base Hospital for the 3rd Southern General Hospital, and falls within this parish. I've also found references to soldiers remains being removed from the base hospital after death and placed in the church until being buried or removed the following day. George's age was recorded as 34 years-old. It would seem that the report in the Oxford Chronicle was in-fact correct, and stating that he was wounded on Saturday morning, this means that he would have been an early casualty on the first day of the Battle of the Somme. 

Hope this was what you were looking for, 

Regards, 

Barry

Thank you for your in depth reply, it’s strange that in the cemetery register that his occupation was given as Glass Worker.  
 

it’s what’s on the death certificate that counts, I’m glad that his service details appeared on it with the cause of death.  
 

I’m looking forward to seeing the next instalment that he is finally recognised as a casualty and also his final place of burial 

[basiloxford]

It's also interesting that the address given on the death certificate is the same address as recorded in the Phillips Park Cemetery register. 

George's sister was also living at this address, and as both of his parents were dead by this time, she was probably responsible for his former occupation being included in the cemetery register. 

This still doesn't explain how his death was not picked up by the IWGC. 

Regards

Barry.

[PaulC78]

6 hours ago, basiloxford said:

I sent copy of the death certificate and the additional paperwork to Terry Denham at the end of October, but did not receive a reply. 

I'm assuming that Terry's application is going through the system, and as Henderson was a serving soldier at the time of his death, hopefully it won't take too long.

I'd chase it up again with Terry if I were you, I've just checked the IFCP list (last updated 02/12/22) and he's not on there.