Carlo Gatty, 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade

[MartyG]

Remembering today S/25393 Rifleman Carlo Gatty, 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade, who gave his life on 16 August 1917.

His Name Liveth For Evermore 

Edited 16 August , 2022 by MartyG

[deutscherinfanteriest]

Hello, do you now his birthplace? His name sounds pretty Italian

[RaySearching]

1 hour ago, deutscherinfanteriest said:

Hello, do you now his birthplace? His name sounds pretty Italian

Born Malta

[MartyG]

2 hours ago, deutscherinfanteriest said:

Hello, do you now his birthplace? His name sounds pretty Italian

There is a little bit about Carlo here (page 2):

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/278617-2nd-battalion-rifle-brigade/page/2/#comment-3140057

I know very little about him - Charlie helpfully found a Carlo Gatty on the 1911 Census, which states his nationality as Italian, while both Jeremy and Ray have equally helpfully discovered he was born in Malta. Whether the Italian and Maltese Carlo’s are the same man I’m not sure, but one wonders how many Carlo Gatty’s there could possibly be. It was strange that he lived in Woolwich - that’s where I was born and I do not live that far away from there now.

We share the same name but I have no idea if he is in any way related to me, and I do not know of any Maltese or Italian connection in my family, but Carlo stays with me - medals probably scrapped, his financial effects authorised to nobody, no next of kin, it’s very sad and Carlo a mystery.

Martin

[deutscherinfanteriest]

Nineteen Carlo Gatti are reported KIA, MIA or died due illness or avalanche on Dolomites but no one born in Malta or is reported to have serve with the Royal British Army

[MartyG]

He is indeed a mystery. I don’t know if he was born Gatti and changed his name to Gatty but both Jeremy and Ray seem to have found his birth details under GattY.

I had always assumed he was Italian but with an anglicised version of the surname, but now we have Malta in the mix…

[deutscherinfanteriest]

Gatti is mainly a north Italian surname. Gatty as surname does not appear in ww1 database but actually many names does not appear. Names can change because a realtive of mine was recorded in two different ways with surname suffix "Di" and in other documents "De"

Edited 17 August , 2022 by deutscherinfanteriest

[Grandad]

My Great Uncle, Rifleman William Walter Dunn, S/5282, 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade, also lost his life on 16 August 1917 at the Battle of Westhoek Ridge, Belgium. He is commemorated on Panel 146 at Tyne Cot as he has no know grave.  Perhaps Carlo and William knew of each other?

[deutscherinfanteriest]

A battalion had about five hundred men, but you should search for the Company

[MartyG]

2 hours ago, Grandad said:

My Great Uncle, Rifleman William Walter Dunn, S/5282, 2nd Battalion Rifle Brigade, also lost his life on 16 August 1917 at the Battle of Westhoek Ridge, Belgium. He is commemorated on Panel 146 at Tyne Cot as he has no know grave.  Perhaps Carlo and William knew of each other?

We shall never know that, of course, but it’s a lovely thought isn’t it, thanks.

Your Great Uncle is remembered on Stone 146.A I see, Carlo on 146.

23 minutes ago, deutscherinfanteriest said:

A battalion had about five hundred men, but you should search for the Company

I cannot speak for Grandad’s Great Uncle, of course, but, unfortunately, I don’t know in which Company Carlo served, his service records have not survived as far as I am aware.

 

[deutscherinfanteriest]

Sad to hear that! And what is heartbreaking is that he has not a known grave

[Grandad]

I have so far been unable to identify which Company my Great Uncle was in and his Service Record has not survived. I have been able to establish that he was wounded twice before he died in August 1917. And, like Carlo, has no known grave. On this tour of duty of 2nd Battalion, for ranks other than officers, 10 died, 72 were wounded, 50 were missing, 6 were wounded at duty and 1 died of wounds. 

[MartyG]

10 hours ago, Grandad said:

I have so far been unable to identify which Company my Great Uncle was in and his Service Record has not survived. I have been able to establish that he was wounded twice before he died in August 1917. And, like Carlo, has no known grave. On this tour of duty of 2nd Battalion, for ranks other than officers, 10 died, 72 were wounded, 50 were missing, 6 were wounded at duty and 1 died of wounds. 

Same here, no records, which pretty much sums up the mystery of Carlo. I guessed he was D Company as it apparently took heavy casualties that day, but there’s no basis for fact in my thinking that. Those figures you mention are from the Battalion diary for 16/17 August, I take it. Our two lost heroes must be in the missing 50…

11 hours ago, deutscherinfanteriest said:

Sad to hear that! And what is heartbreaking is that he has not a known grave

Yes, no known grave, no records, his medals probably scrapped and nobody to give his financial effects to as no next of kin recorded, so little to go on. Did he have family in Malta or Italy who never knew what happened to him, or had he been alone all his life?

Heartbreaking is the word, very appropriate, but rest assured he will stay with me forever, he will not be forgotten.

[Grandad]

I went to Tyne Cot on 16 August 2017, 100 years to the day when my Great Uncle fell and laid a wreath in memory. If you have not been, I would thoroughly recommend a visit to Ieper, Passchendaele and Poperinge. We cannot begin to imagine how ghastly trench warfare was for infantrymen and the various museums around Ieper give a flavour of the horrors they endured. 

[MartyG]

Went there with my mum in the 1990s, a day “trip” would you believe, my one and only visit thus far. Unfortunately, I knew nothing about Carlo at the time, nor of any of my fallen relatives in either war. No interweb back then, you see.

I recall laying a poppy at Tyne Cot on a grave marked “Gatward”, because I worked with somebody with that name at the time, (I now know the grave must have been that of Serjeant J. R. Gatward, RFA) and placed another on an unknown soldier’s.

It was Remembrance Day and the bowler-hatted gentleman in charge of the British veterans marching through Ypres to the Menin Gate that morning must have heard our accents because he kindly invited mum and I to “march” with them.

I thanked him but said that it didn’t feel right to “march” with them but he insisted. What a wonderful gesture on his part and an experience and honour I will never forget.

Edited 18 August , 2022 by MartyG

[deutscherinfanteriest]

On 18/08/2022 at 11:38, MartyG said:

Same here, no records, which pretty much sums up the mystery of Carlo. I guessed he was D Company as it apparently took heavy casualties that day, but there’s no basis for fact in my thinking that. Those figures you mention are from the Battalion diary for 16/17 August, I take it. Our two lost heroes must be in the missing 50…

Yes, no known grave, no records, his medals probably scrapped and nobody to give his financial effects to as no next of kin recorded, so little to go on. Did he have family in Malta or Italy who never knew what happened to him, or had he been alone all his life?

Heartbreaking is the word, very appropriate, but rest assured he will stay with me forever, he will not be forgotten.

CWCG does not have Company level lists.

Scrapping medal is so fooish, at least they could give them to a Museum. He is so a unknown soldier, a man who never existed. He and millions like him in both world wars.

In fact especially who digs bones often thinks to miliyary aspect and does not care about graves, in Frances fields or Russian steppe

Sometimes I do the same, remembering who died in my country and now has no relatives. At least they are alive in that way.

[MartyG]

On 20/08/2022 at 11:55, deutscherinfanteriest said:

 

Sometimes I do the same, remembering who died in my country and now has no relatives. At least they are alive in that way.

Exactly.