Current location of Wallasey Grammar School Memorials?

[michaelpcoyle]

Imperial War Museum's War Memorials Register Ref WMR2384 - Wallasey Grammar School WW1 & 2.  Also Warmemorialsonline Ref WMO/120194 & WMO/120195.

I think Wallasey Grammar closed in 2006 and that Kingsway Academy, which took over, closed in 2018. There is a possibility that Clare Mount 6^th form (have been contacted) are now using the building but all of that leaves a big question over the current location of the war memorial.  Anyone able to confirm the location? Grateful for any help. Mike

[davidbohl]

Michael, the building is still intact according to recent articles in the Wirral Globe and the Liverpool Echo. It is under the auspices of Wirral Council, it may be worth contacting them

Dave

[michaelpcoyle]

Thanks for that David. Is that the Grammar School building, under the auspices of the Council? Mike

[davidbohl]

17 minutes ago, michaelpcoyle said:

Is that the Grammar School building, under the auspices of the Council

The article in the Echo from March 2022 refers to the Kingsway Academy building, here is a screenshot

 

 

[michaelpcoyle]

Many thanks. Will pursue. Mike

 

[BillyH]

This doesn't add very much, but the newspaper clipping attached shows that the memorial was originally sited inside the School (Wallasey News 6.12.1919)

I also have a list of the names that were intended to be included if it is of interest.

BillyH.

 

 

[BillyH]

Will do, but I would suggest that you edit out your e-mail address. The moderators believe that it leads to unwanted spam!

BillyH.

[TullochArd]

An original chunk of the Wallasay Grammar School became Withensfield School and is now operating as Liscard Primary School on Withens Lane.

What chunk remains and if it bears any relation to the former location or current location of the Memorials I do not know but a 2016 update on WarMemorialsOnline reports WW1 Memorial at Wallasey School, (at old address) Birket Avenue, Leasowe, CH46 1RU but as "memorial is clean and well cared for - no concerns."

I'd give Liscard a call.....it's out there somewhere Michael.  Good Luck.

 

 

[michaelpcoyle]

Thanks for that, will do. Mike

[michaelpcoyle]

All is well with the Wallasey Grammar School Memorials. They are located at The Wallaseyans Club, in Wallasey. Thanks to all for all help. M

[Charles Fair]

On 08/06/2022 at 22:05, BillyH said:

I also have a list of the names that were intended to be included if it is of interest.

Wallasey Grammar has come up in my database as one the schools on the fringes of the public school world. I have been compiling comparative statistics on grammar schools of various types, some of which were considered public schools in 1914 (by some measures at least) and others which were not. @BillyH Does this list by any chance give the ranks?  If so, I'd be interested to know what proportion were commissioned. Thank you.

[BillyH]

21 minutes ago, Charles Fair said:

I'd be interested to know what proportion were commissioned. Thank you.

I cannot give you an explicit answer, but I have well over 100 names from six separate articles about Wallasey Grammar that were published in the local newspapers , many with ranks and regiments. The attached article gives some scale to the number of men involved.

If you want all six articles then PM me with an e-mail address and I will send them to you.

BillyH.

[Charles Fair]

Thank you @BillyH DM to follow.  I note that the listing of the memorial on the NIWM gives 112 names so they must have found a few more by the time it was installed.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/2384

[TullochArd]

On 18/09/2023 at 21:53, Charles Fair said:

I have been compiling comparative statistics on grammar schools of various types, some of which were considered public schools in 1914 (by some measures at least) and others which were not. 

I've got a fair bit on my local grammar school, Newchurch Grammar School, Rossendale, Lancashire. I have the breakdown of the 37 fatalities and could provide the detail by p.m. should it be of use.  If so, let me know how you want it presented.  It will of little surprise that, as a school developed to support an industrial community the fatalities fall into three specific groups: sons of local professionals - commissioned,  Individuals with a technical ability - RE/RN specialists and scholarship students - privates.   Sadly the served and returned community is fragmentary and will be of no value to you.

[Charles Fair]

1 hour ago, TullochArd said:

I've got a fair bit on my local grammar school, Newchurch Grammar School, Rossendale, Lancashire. I have the breakdown of the 37 fatalities and could provide the detail by p.m. should it be of use.  If so, let me know how you want it presented.  It will of little surprise that, as a school developed to support an industrial community the fatalities fall into three specific groups: sons of local professionals - commissioned,  Individuals with a technical ability - RE/RN specialists and scholarship students - privates.   Sadly the served and returned community is fragmentary and will be of no value to you.

Thank you, that would be most useful. I’m trying to compile stats on a range of grammar schools, from the big ones that by some measures certainly were public schools (Portsmouth) down to the more numerous small grammar schools in towns across the country. 

[Charles Fair]

7 hours ago, TullochArd said:

Newchurch Grammar School, Rossendale, Lancashire. I have the breakdown of the 37 fatalities and could provide the detail by p.m. should it be of use.

All I need to know is: of the 37 fatalities, how many were commissioned into any service (including merchant navy)?

In addition, do you have any idea of the following:

• Approximate number of boys on the school roll in 1914
• Approximate number who served

Many thanks

[TullochArd]

On 20/09/2023 at 21:03, Charles Fair said:

All I need to know is: of the 37 fatalities, how many were commissioned into any service (including merchant navy)?

In addition, do you have any idea of the following:

• Approximate number of boys on the school roll in 1914
• Approximate number who served

Many thanks

Of the 37 fatalities 12 are commissioned and 25 are ORs. 

In 1913 the school moved location and changed name to Bacup and Rawtenstall Secondary School and in 1918 there were 266 pupils which is recorded as "fifty more than at the beginning of the war."  I can only guess Newchurch Grammar School was smaller. Please note these figures include an unknown number of girls. 

I'm not at all optimistic about producing anything worthwhile regarding the second bullet point

Edited 26 September , 2023 by TullochArd

[Charles Fair]

9 hours ago, TullochArd said:

Of the 37 fatalities 12 are commissioned and 25 are ORs. 

In 1913 the school moved location and changed name to Bacup and Rawtenstall Secondary School and in 1918 there were 266 pupils which is recorded as "fifty more than at the beginning of the war."  I can only guess Newchurch Grammar School was smaller. Please note these figures include an unknown number of girls. 

I'm not at all optimistic about producing anything worthwhile regarding the second bullet point

Many thanks @TullochArd, that's terrific.  The 32% commissioned is typical of small grammar schools, most of which are in the range of 30-40%

[BGS]

I have been working on Bradford Grammar School since 2014. It was a 'Public School' by the definition that it was a member of HMC. But it served the city's commercial classes and needs, had no boarders, and only acquired an OTC following the outbreak of war.

If you are still collecting information, let me know what you want to know and I will provide it.

On the subject of Officer Cadet Battalions, I have an exercise book kept by Private Harry Hartley, 16th West Yorkshire Regiment (1st Bradford Pals) while on his course at 8th Officer Training Bn at Lichfield from 7th April 1917. He was commissioned on 31.7.1917. He had attended a Bradford City Grammar School (Hanson) so had a secondary education, and had worked as a commercial traveler in Russian Poland and Germany (in textiles, I think). So lower middle class? This was part of a suitcase of documents his grandson, the late Michael Berry, brought to me in 2017. He donated it to Bradford World War One Group, and as we have no facilities to store such an archive we placed it with the Peter Liddle Collection.

At Cambrai, Hartley took command of B Company 2/7th West Riding Regt. (186th Brigade, 62nd Division) when his Coy CO was wounded. He kept his message pad duplicates for 20th-22nd November - they are in the collection. Hartley was himself wounded in the hand and finished the war as interpreter at Leigh PoW Camp.

I copied all the items and will send you the exercise book images if you want to see them.

Finally, I have the report for Captain George Emil Jowett BROOKSBANK from No.1 School of Instruction for Infantry Officers which he attended from late January 1918 - he had been commissioned from RAMC on 24th January 1916, served with 1/6th West Yorkshire, then 2/6th West Yorkshire - he was wounded on 20th November 1917 and transferred to 2/5th West Yorkshire following his course as 2/6 had been broken up. This is from his effects which have come into my possession - how a confidential report came to be in his possession is a mystery. Again, should you wish to see it I will send you the image.

Nick Hooper.

 

[Charles Fair]

2 hours ago, BGS said:

I have been working on Bradford Grammar School since 2014. It was a 'Public School' by the definition that it was a member of HMC. But it served the city's commercial classes and needs, had no boarders, and only acquired an OTC following the outbreak of war.

If you are still collecting information, let me know what you want to know and I will provide it.

On the subject of Officer Cadet Battalions, I have an exercise book kept by Private Harry Hartley, 16th West Yorkshire Regiment (1st Bradford Pals) while on his course at 8th Officer Training Bn at Lichfield from 7th April 1917. He was commissioned on 31.7.1917. He had attended a Bradford City Grammar School (Hanson) so had a secondary education, and had worked as a commercial traveler in Russian Poland and Germany (in textiles, I think). So lower middle class? This was part of a suitcase of documents his grandson, the late Michael Berry, brought to me in 2017. He donated it to Bradford World War One Group, and as we have no facilities to store such an archive we placed it with the Peter Liddle Collection.

At Cambrai, Hartley took command of B Company 2/7th West Riding Regt. (186th Brigade, 62nd Division) when his Coy CO was wounded. He kept his message pad duplicates for 20th-22nd November - they are in the collection. Hartley was himself wounded in the hand and finished the war as interpreter at Leigh PoW Camp.

I copied all the items and will send you the exercise book images if you want to see them.

Hello Nick, thanks for your message, I am still collecting information. I have data from Bradford GS of 1,063 served of which 397 commissioned (i.e. 37.3%). This proportion is typical of a city grammar school.  Does this concur with your statistics?

I would love to see Hartley's exercise book please.  I visited the Liddle Collection 2 or 3 times in 2018/19 and copied everything of relevance,  You must have deposited it since then.  Probably lower middle class, but that also depends on his father's occupation. The boundaries are flexible and there was a lot of upwards mobility.  Was his father a mill owner or a miner?  I wonder if he was a scholar for which the school was in receipt of a grant under the 1907 Education Act?

Professor Honey has Bradford Grammar in his sixth group of schools that he considered to be on the fringes of the public school world in 1902, largely based on the factors you mention.

[Charles Fair]

3 hours ago, BGS said:

Finally, I have the report for Captain George Emil Jowett BROOKSBANK from No.1 School of Instruction for Infantry Officers which he attended from late January 1918 - he had been commissioned from RAMC on 24th January 1916, served with 1/6th West Yorkshire, then 2/6th West Yorkshire - he was wounded on 20th November 1917 and transferred to 2/5th West Yorkshire following his course as 2/6 had been broken up. This is from his effects which have come into my possession - how a confidential report came to be in his possession is a mystery. Again, should you wish to see it I will send you the image.

I would love to see this too please. I have come across four of these forms now, (two via the forum).  They have usually been weeded from the personal files in WO 339 and WO 374.  I wonder if he acquired a copy of his report at the end of the course.  My grandfather kept a copy of his report from when he attended Senior Officers' School at Aldershot in summer of 1917, and this form is not in his file in WO 374.

Both Brooksbank and Hartley would be good case studies for me to use. I will look up their personal files should you not have done so.

[BGS]

On 26/02/2024 at 21:39, Charles Fair said:

Hello Nick, thanks for your message, I am still collecting information. I have data from Bradford GS of 1,063 served of which 397 commissioned (i.e. 37.3%). This proportion is typical of a city grammar school.  Does this concur with your statistics?

I would love to see Hartley's exercise book please.  I visited the Liddle Collection 2 or 3 times in 2018/19 and copied everything of relevance,  You must have deposited it since then.  Probably lower middle class, but that also depends on his father's occupation. The boundaries are flexible and there was a lot of upwards mobility.  Was his father a mill owner or a miner?  I wonder if he was a scholar for which the school was in receipt of a grant under the 1907 Education Act?

Professor Honey has Bradford Grammar in his sixth group of schools that he considered to be on the fringes of the public school world in 1902, largely based on the factors you mention.

Harry Hartley's MT 392 (?) and passing out dinner at 'B' Coy 8th OCB.

[BGS]

Harry Hartley's notebook for 8 OCB course (8/21).

The Hartley collection was deposited with the Liddle Collection in the early 2020s - following a delay in it being catalogued I believe this has now been done.

[BGS]

Hartley OCB notebook 9-15/21.

[BGS]

Final batch of OCB notebook, 16-21.

The MT 392 (or is it 393 - the corner of the page is folded over) is from his WO339-98627. There are 50+ sheets in this document, mostly relating to medical boards in 1918.

He was commissioned into 2/7th West Riding.

His father Thomas and grandfather John were textile workers - 'warp dressers' in Bradford. Harry attended Hanson School, a Bradford City secondary school.