BURIALS of 'UNKNOWN' in the UNITED KINGDOM

[Jrmh]

CWGC - washed ashore 24.11.18

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/349673/walter-george-clarke/#&gid=1&pid=2

[Matlock1418]

18 minutes ago, Jrmh said:

CWGC - washed ashore 24.11.18

https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/349673/walter-george-clarke/#&gid=1&pid=2

Thanks for looking further.

The challenge would seem to be with his name but as starters: Any inquest reported?  Or ship known to have sunk approx. then and/or thereabouts?? [I'm afraid far too complicated for me but state of the date of death/body's decomposition and/or tidal flow etc. whould rather seem to open up the search area - towards the S or SW I might suspect due to prevailing winds ???]

M

Edited 31 August , 2022 by Matlock1418
add

[PaulC78]

The entry on Find-a-Grave has a photo of an older headstone which shows less detail: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/136760392/a-sailor

Intersting to note that the GRR form has another unknown sailor struck out, I wonder how war grave status was determined (one way or another) in such cases?

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, PaulC78 said:

The entry on Find-a-Grave has a photo of an older headstone which shows less detail: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/136760392/a-sailor

Intersting to note that the GRR form has another unknown sailor struck out, I wonder how war grave status was determined (one way or another) in such cases?

Wouldn't we like to know - and when.

And when and why in this particular case he got his new headstone with these additional details [Was there a specific reason beyond his origial stone becoming excessively 'tired'??]

Unfortunately the lack of readily-accessible publically-available info/lack of transparency from CWGC in such cases currently makes this a challenge.

Hey ho!

M

[jay dubaya]

It’s interesting to see the above posted image of an Unknown Mercantile Marine Sailor of the Great War – I’ve never seen nor heard of one before now. I think this may be an isolated case and I wonder if there may be some further clues in the parish burial register, I’d be interested to learn of any other similar examples that may exist from our period.

Of course it poses the question how was it determined that he was Mercantile Marine not Royal Navy as originally recorded? The other sailor on the same GRRF, originally recorded as ‘probably RN’, lost his sailor/seaman status altogether and became just an unknown body.

The Headstone Schedule suggests the war graves at Budleigh Salterton received their headstones post January 1925 at which time this particular grave was very likely still classed as an unknown ‘RN sailor’ and so received a headstone, albeit with Royal Navy omitted which does suggest some degree of uncertainty at the time. When was the status changed from RN Sailor to MM Seaman? Similar red pen annotations (not a war grave/non war grave) appear on local (to me) GRRFs during 1926/27 which may suggest a similar timing to those at Budleigh Salterton. The 2 images of this headstone are noted as having been uploaded on 4th October 2014 (Unknown Sailor) and 31st August 2022 (Unknown Seaman), it must have been replaced recently with the amended details. The original headstone does appear to show some extensive weathering to the upper portion and was probably the reason a replacement was needed.

Looking at documents for Charles William Sedgemore, RNR, on the same GRRF, it may appear that he is entitled to war grave status but as no application for a funeral expense grant was made he too is not commemorated by the CWGC, some more work needed here to confirm his status and a possible case for IFTC project.

At Angle (St Mary) Churchyard, Pembrokeshire, there are 5 unknown Mercantile Marine burials of varying wartime dates struck off the GRRF as ‘not a war grave’, today their graves are lost, unmarked burials simply recorded as being in the north-west of the churchyard. There are several more unknown bodies buried here after being washed ashore during wartime but do not appear on any available GRRFs, its highly likely that they too are Mercantile Marine Seamen or Royal Navy Sailors.

On the same GRRF there are 5 unknown Japanese sailors from the Hirano Maru whose burials are struck through and 1 unknown from ‘SS Vaterland’ whose burial is stuck through and noted as ‘not a war burial’, it’s also worth noting that at least one of the known army burials has been verified by ‘SDGW Book’. The Japanese sailors were neither British nor Commonwealth and outside the commemoration remit of the IWGC, the body from SS Vaterland may have been an American although it’s unclear if this grave has been removed or is lost.

The parish burial registers also records further unknowns washed ashore during wartime including dozens of civilians from the Hirano Maru. It’s not clear if these graves received the same treatment as those that appear on the GRRF and it may be that their only known existence is within these local parish records and their graves unmarked in the corner of a churchyard.

What was the criteria that struck these unknown Mercantile Marine graves from the Commission’s report? There is no indication of what identified these burials as Mercantile Marine and the dates of death recorded on the GRRF are those from the day they were buried. No identification as to who they are, no official date of death, no indication of how they came to drown or if indeed they were undertaking ‘war’ work at the time all appear to be contributing factors to their burials not being accepted as war graves.

Also at Angle Churchyard we have the grave of Rudolph Wensberg, Mercantile Marine, SS Lorca, 29th October 1916 his headstone inscribed ‘known to be buried in this cemetery’. The SS Lorca was sunk by a torpedo fired from U-49 on 15th November 1916 and sank with all hands 200 miles west of Ushant, France. I’ve convinced myself that the date anomaly may be a simple transcription error. Wensberg’s body must have been in the water for several weeks and travelled over 300 miles to reach the south west Pembrokeshire coastline, this grave is the only known burial from the SS Lorca. I’m yet to see/find a burial record for him in the parish burial register and a one line entry in the local paper dated 10th January 1917 reads ‘Did you know the body of a Russian seaman was washed ashore at Angle last week?’. It’s evident that some item of identification was present when the remains were recovered, however, his remains are likely interred in the mass grave of unknowns washed ashore and buried unmarked in the north west corner of the churchyard.

 

The Mercantile Marine was one of the recognised civilian organisations whose members qualify for war grave status under certain additional conditions, an inclusion of having ‘ died because of the increased risks due to war conditions’ is a term I’ve heard over the years, I’m not sure how that works when Cpl Jones accidently steps in front of a cart whilst on home leave and qualifies for a war grave. Sadly with no identifying items, no date of death and no way of knowing if a man had died due to the increased risk whilst carrying out war work. These graves are almost completely forgotten, more often than not, unmarked in the corner of a coastal churchyard. The criteria for inclusion of merchant sailors appears to have shifted following another war, these unknown graves are within the care of the CWGC.

Signalman Alec John Lee RNVR went down with the Hirano Maru on 4th October 1918, his body washed ashore on the Pembrokeshire coastline, he was later identified and buried at Milford Haven Cemetery, the GRRF notes date of death as 7th November 1918. The Master of the Hirano Maru on its final voyage Captain Hector Frazer, Mercantile Marine was lost to the sea. Hector Frazer is remembered on a family plot and 2 war memorials, there was no official recognition of his death until June 2015 when his name was scheduled for inclusion on to the Mercantile Marine Memorial. As there was uncertainty of identity of the 8 bodies that washed ashore at Dale between 4th and 29th November 1918 the IWGC were unable to commemorate and care for their graves, the people of the village raised funds to erect a memorial to their memory. Shiro Okosie and 9 unknown shipmates from the Hirano Maru are buried together at Angle Churchyard, their grave originally marked by a painted wooden post rotted away decades ago, a new stone memorial was unveiled on the spot one hundred years to the day of the sinking. St. Ishmael’s Churchyard also contains a stone memorial commemorating the lives lost on the Hirano Maru along with at least one unknown Mercantile Marine grave not commemorated by the CWGC.

The Pembrokeshire newspapers of the time contain numerous reports on bodies washed ashore, a monthly count was often printed along with a tragic event which occurred in peacetime post Armistice.

An unknown sailor washed ashore on the rocks between Broad Haven and Little Haven was ‘buried like a dog in a hole’ wrote the Reverend Woodman Dowding at Talbenny Churchyard, the indignant clergy, parishioners and visitors held a service over the closed grave some days later, the unmarked grave lays there still.

A year later another unknown sailor washed ashore at Broad Haven, he was promptly buried at Walton West Churchyard. Some months later the grave was exhumed and the body identified by his brother, he had travelled from Blackpool where the body of Wallanger, Mercantile Marine (SS Missanbie) was to be conveyed for reburial and IWGC commemoration.

On the night of 27th December 1919 whilst being returned on a rowing boat to HMS Indomitable, HMS Wistaria and RFA Francol moored off Pembroke Dock. An altercation took place about a hundred yards out and the boat capsized sending all seven men into the watery darkness. One man swam to safety whilst another clung to the upturned boat, he was pulled out alive but died an hour later. It would be several days before the other bodies were recovered; the remains of Sheeran not being recovered until 20th March 1920. Pembroke Dock (Llanion) Cemetery contains the graves of Patterson, Royal Navy (Indomitable), How, Royal Navy (Wistaria), Ronayne and Sheeran, Mercantile Marine Reserve (Francol). Two bodies were never recovered – Campbell, Royal Navy (Francol), Chatham Naval Memorial and Tyler, Mercantile Marine Reserve (Francol), Plymouth Naval Memorial. The cemetery contains the grave of one, if not both of these men, there is a CWGC headstone bearing the inscription ‘A Seaman of the Great War – RFA Francol – 27th December 1919’. A few yards away another CWGC headstone bears the inscription ‘A Seaman of the Great War – Royal Navy – (buried) 15th August 1920’. This latter grave was originally struck through and recorded ‘not a war grave’, this was later amended to reinstate the burial to war grave status.

Other GRRFs available for cemeteries and churchyards throughout Pembrokeshire turn up dozens of ‘non war grave’ and almost all are unknown Mercantile Marine seamen.

Castlemartin Churchyard contains a mass grave of 6 burials all casualties of SS Ionian, all were identified and are commemorated by CWGC, the two unknown Mercantile Marine graves here a recorded as ‘not a war grave’ and as such are not commemorated by the CWGC.

Marloes Churchyard contains four unknown Mercantile Marine burials all recorded as ‘non war grave’. The burial dates of two, buried together coincide with the large number of remains washed ashore in the vicinity from the Hirano Maru. All these graves are now lost in the churchyard, unmarked but not quite forgotten.

The SS Hartland was torpedoed by U-97 in the Irish Sea of Anglesey on 22nd November 1917, two crew members lost their lives in the attack. Although badly damaged the Hartland remained afloat while the remaining 28 crew were taken off by the destroyer USS Conyngham and transferred to an allied ship in Holyhead Harbour. The SS Hartland was towed into Fishguard Harbour where she was refloated.

Llanwnda Cemetery at Goodwick near Fishguard contains the grave of O’Keefe, Mercantile Marine (SS Hartland) buried 8th December 1917. The GRRF records ‘there are five burials in this grave including two unknown torpedoed sailors it is presumed that one is O’Keefe the other is reported on schedule 1’, sadly schedule 1 appears to no longer exist. The Headstone Schedule appears to suggest that O’Keefe’s headstone is also inscribed with details of the unknown sailor buried with him. I’m yet to find evidence that both O’Keefe and McGaw’s bodies remained on the SS Hartland when she was towed to Fishguard Harbour later being removed for local burial, but it is clear that O’Keefe was not washed ashore. It’s probable that the unknown sailor is actually McGaw also Mercantile Marine and now remembered at the Tower Hill Memorial.

[Matlock1418]

JW - thank you for your very comprehensive post above - obviously drawing on your local knowledge. Always a puzzle as to how these matters were addressed 100 yeas ago.  CWGC don't seem to offer much.

On 08/09/2022 at 13:29, jay dubaya said:

It’s interesting to see the above posted image of an Unknown Mercantile Marine Sailor of the Great War – I’ve never seen nor heard of one before now. I think this may be an isolated case and I wonder if there may be some further clues in the parish burial register, I’d be interested to learn of any other similar examples that may exist from our period.

Of course it poses the question how was it determined that he was Mercantile Marine not Royal Navy as originally recorded? The other sailor on the same GRRF, originally recorded as ‘probably RN’, lost his sailor/seaman status altogether and became just an unknown body.

There are similar

FALMOUTH CEMETERY, CORNWALL, Cornwall, United Kingdom

Commonwealth War Dead (1914-1918)

, Fireman. Mercantile Marine. 5 November 1917. Grave Reference: L. C. 45

, Fireman. Mercantile Marine. 5 November 1917. Grave Reference: L. F. 49

As I believe the SS "Clan Cumming" was salvaged after torpedo damage lead to a tow and beaching at Falmouth it seems likely that though the exact identities of these men was not possible there was good provenance - I would suggest their bodies were likely found in the engineroom leading to the ranks provided in these cases.  I have not seen any I/CWGC papers.

Would have been much harder if they had been washed ashore

M

Edited 29 March by Matlock1418
resize the photos

[ianjonesncl]

On 24/04/2022 at 18:01, Matlock1418 said:

WHICKHAM (GARDEN HOUSE) CEMETERY, Durham, United Kingdom Commonwealth War Dead (1914-1918) , Soldier. Unknown Commonwealth Forces. 7 May 1917. Grave Reference: 1. C. 314

[Matlock1418]

On 12/09/2022 at 21:02, ianjonesncl said:

On 24/04/2022 at 18:01, Matlock1418 said:

WHICKHAM (GARDEN HOUSE) CEMETERY, Durham, United Kingdom Commonwealth War Dead (1914-1918) , Soldier. Unknown Commonwealth Forces. 7 May 1917. Grave Reference: 1. C. 314

Thanks for this - Strange that they seem to have had an idea of his service and an exact date of death but not a name, rank or regiment. ???

M

[ianjonesncl]

3 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Thanks for this - Strange that they seem to have had an idea of his service and an exact date of death but not a name, rank or regiment. ???

I was wondering about the circumstances that would lead to a soldier in the UK not being identified. 

A trip tothe local library may reveal the answers.

[William Shelford]

A Google search finds North East War Memorials Project - Every Name A Story Content (newmp.org.uk) which gives more information, but is unable to sold the mystery.

[Matlock1418]

1 minute ago, ianjonesncl said:

I was wondering about the circumstances that would lead to a soldier in the UK not being identified. 

A trip tothe local library may reveal the answers.

Attaboy!

Cause of death would be interesting to know - Perhaps found in uniform but without papers - but rank and unit badges might perhaps assist [if they were still attached] - and of course if AWOL surely a search/enquiry [though likely harder if a long way from his unit].

It is puzzling.

??? Perhaps body and main identifying features largely burnt in a fire ???

With you local(ish) connections we're looking foward to your findings.

M

[Matlock1418]

9 minutes ago, William Shelford said:

A Google search finds North East War Memorials Project - Every Name A Story Content (newmp.org.uk) which gives more information, but is unable to sold the mystery.

Thank you - You beat my recent post whilst it was in the making!  An enduring mystery it appears.

Drowning or other cause of death and advanced decomposition had rather put me off such a scenario given such an exact date of death in this case.

M

Edited 14 September , 2022 by Matlock1418
add

[ianjonesncl]

1 hour ago, William Shelford said:

A Google search finds North East War Memorials Project - Every Name A Story Content (newmp.org.uk) which gives more information, but is unable to sold the mystery.

An excellent piece of research by the NEWMP and looks like they have accessed all the local resources.

Potentially a case of someone without support of family and friends who took his own life in difficult circumstances. If he was still serving he must be recorded as being AWOL. One wonders how many are unaccounted for and if his name is on that list.

[Matlock1418]

On 04/07/2022 at 12:58, Matlock1418 said:

Another request please, for our information, might you be able to post here a headstone/plot photo and plot details on GWF? [You obviously know the plot & location in some detail - part of your useful skill set much welcomed here by me] 

@Erasmus Hope you are well.  A follow up request as you don't seem to have picked up my earlier one

Re: Lt Col Algernon Henry DUMARESQ, RE Kensall (All Souls) Cemetery

Please ...

• Any burial documents
• Any photo of the grave and any headstone/monument

Many thanks in anticipation

M

[sparkyhorrox]

Message for @Matlock1418

Hi, 

I am the Churchwarden for St Hywyns, Aberdaron, Gwynedd...

I found your post about un-named military graves whilst checking on something else.

The un-named sailor now has a name.

Twice in the 1900's the sea encroached the graveyard washing away graves, the contents were reinterred reverently.

The family of yet named sailor were also looking for his memorial stone, which was a large celtic cross, unfortunately one of those washed down

and erected somewhere else and the base with the name on was set deep and covered in grass etc., and a new slate headstone with the inscription

'A sailor from the Great War'  from the SS Stephen Furness placed close by.

On investigating further, I found out he was one of 4 sailors washed ashore along our coast, 1,Aberdaron, 2,Edern and 1 Nefyn a few miles away.

His name is  Joseph William Hall aged 20 ,18, Bull St. West Bromwich and he also has a grave in Wolverhampton stating that he is interred

in St Hywyns, Aberdaron.  On digging out the buried base stone of the celtic cross, his name is written on there.

We always remember him on the 11/11 with a poppy or cross.

Hope this helps with your files, I have pictures if you would like them.

All the best

 

[clive_hughes]

sparkyhorrox,

I have done a fair amount of research on the sinking of the Stephen Furness in respect of one of the crew, a career Royal Navy sailor whose body was afterwards washed up at Llanfairynghornwy in north-west Anglesey.  

If you would like a copy for reference, I'm happy to email it to you.   Just send me some contact details via the PM (Private Messaging) system on this Forum.

Kind regards,

Clive Hughes

[PaulC78]

Slightly confused by the above as the CWGC's grave registration report form shows Hall and the unknown as two separate burials? Hall appears to have been known to them for some time, yet the unknown still appears on the list they provided to Matlock.

[Matlock1418]

On 16/11/2022 at 12:45, sparkyhorrox said:

Message for @Matlock1418

Hi, 

I am the Churchwarden for St Hywyns, Aberdaron, Gwynedd...

I found your post about un-named military graves whilst checking on something else.

The un-named sailor now has a name.

Twice in the 1900's the sea encroached the graveyard washing away graves, the contents were reinterred reverently.

The family of yet named sailor were also looking for his memorial stone, which was a large celtic cross, unfortunately one of those washed down

and erected somewhere else and the base with the name on was set deep and covered in grass etc., and a new slate headstone with the inscription

'A sailor from the Great War'  from the SS Stephen Furness placed close by.

On investigating further, I found out he was one of 4 sailors washed ashore along our coast, 1,Aberdaron, 2,Edern and 1 Nefyn a few miles away.

His name is  Joseph William Hall aged 20 ,18, Bull St. West Bromwich and he also has a grave in Wolverhampton stating that he is interred

in St Hywyns, Aberdaron.  On digging out the buried base stone of the celtic cross, his name is written on there.

We always remember him on the 11/11 with a poppy or cross.

Hope this helps with your files, I have pictures if you would like them.

All the best

Welcome to GWF - thanks for your post - always good to get new interest/input.

On 17/11/2022 at 12:07, PaulC78 said:

Slightly confused by the above as the CWGC's grave registration report form shows Hall and the unknown as two separate burials? Hall appears to have been known to them for some time, yet the unknown still appears on the list they provided to Matlock.

 

It is a puzzle based on this record at  https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/670965/joseph-william-hall - certainly looks like two burials on the form.

Hope @sparkyhorrox can offer more comment/info.

M

[sparkyhorrox]

Hi, Yes it does seem confusing, I have replied to two others with this information both give the harrowing story of the SS Stephen Furness..

I have looked through parish records of the time and also the passed down info from families who were alive at that time, that only one 

person was washed ashore, being Joseph William Hall,   I think the confusion maybe that he was first buried with the celtic cross memorial stone which his family have always referred to....then the erosion took place which led to graves being taken to the sea which were quickly recovered . Those were then reinterred and hence the new slate headstone.....the celtic cross was recovered and placed where old photographs show it to have been at a later stage, there is a picture on this 'blog' of the celtic cross with the base exposed and the name of JW Hall on it....but since taking over as Churchwarden 20 years ago and looking at the headstones, this one has had its base covered with grass and so the writings not exposed.  Having now spoken to the previous Churchwarden of over 40 years, she has told me that the celctic cross headstone was found in two pieces and it was a while before it was put back together after the sea defence had been built, which again is shown in the photograph.

I hope this helps in some way, if I can upload the photos of the printed records I will do so.

All the best to you

Val

 

[Matlock1418]

23 minutes ago, sparkyhorrox said:

Hi, Yes it does seem confusing, I have replied to two others with this information both give the harrowing story of the SS Stephen Furness..

I have looked through parish records of the time and also the passed down info from families who were alive at that time, that only one 

person was washed ashore, being Joseph William Hall,   I think the confusion maybe that he was first buried with the celtic cross memorial stone which his family have always referred to....then the erosion took place which led to graves being taken to the sea which were quickly recovered . Those were then reinterred and hence the new slate headstone.....the celtic cross was recovered and placed where old photographs show it to have been at a later stage, there is a picture on this 'blog' of the celtic cross with the base exposed and the name of JW Hall on it....but since taking over as Churchwarden 20 years ago and looking at the headstones, this one has had its base covered with grass and so the writings not exposed.  Having now spoken to the previous Churchwarden of over 40 years, she has told me that the celctic cross headstone was found in two pieces and it was a while before it was put back together after the sea defence had been built, which again is shown in the photograph.

I hope this helps in some way, if I can upload the photos of the printed records I will do so.

Thanks for this - still puzzling though.

The GRRF posted above has printer's marks of 1/26 and 6/26 so must post-date 6/26

Date(s) of erosion would perhaps help ???

Photo(s) always welcomed here.

M

[sparkyhorrox]

I will do some more investigating and try and get some more clarity and photos.... Val

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, sparkyhorrox said:

I will do some more investigating and try and get some more clarity and photos

Thanks - we await with continuing interest.

M

[sparkyhorrox]

On 18/11/2022 at 17:00, Matlock1418 said:

Thanks - we await with continuing interest.

M

Hi 'M'

In my continued search for a second unknown sailor, I have looked through all the records of burials and this is the only burial listed in our records...

The burial plots for J.W.Hall and the unknown slate headstone are number 1 and 2 on the map, this also makes me further think that they are one and the same person and that his first headstone was put back in place after the sea defence was rebuilt..(.there has been 3 'rebuilds' 1868, 1980's and 1997.) again according to local info, the stone celtic headstone had broken off the base and only put back together after the new slate headstone had been erected.   I dont know if this will help any more but I will keep asking questions of anyone who can remember !! there are not many left now though !!  But we can rest assured that there will always be an acknowledgement for the lives given.

Val

 

[ianjonesncl]

EASINGTON VILLAGE (DURHAM LANE) CEMETERY, Durham, United Kingdom

Foreign National (1914-1918)

, Sailor. French Navy. Grave Reference: South West Part Grave 5

, Sailor. French Navy. Grave Reference: South West Part Grave 7

, Sailor. French Navy. Grave Reference: South West Part Grave 8 I was expecting to see three separate graves. However there is a single French grave marker bearing the inscription Trois Matelots Francais Inconnus.

 

[Matlock1418]

Thank you for the latest replies

M