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Remembered Today:

Is this a WW1 helmet?


Arne Vandendriessche
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Hey,

Is this a WW1 helmet?
I found it with my metal detector.
I think it's zinc.
I found some leather scraps inside.
There are two holes next to each other on the edge every 3.5 cm, perhaps for straps? Can someone explain me more?

Arne

 

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I have zero knowledge about WW1 helmets but here’s my guess.

An Adrian helmet? The row of holes in my creative mind would be to attach the brim.

As always, I wait to be shot down when it turns out to be a mixing bowl !

Simon

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Thanks

I don't think it can be that kind because mine is not steel but zinc. It could also be a cooking pot, but why would there be holes in it, and how did that leather get in there?
A while ago I was magnet fishing, I thought I had found a steel helmet but it turned out to be a pot to pee in :blink:

 

Arne

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I suppose if it were an Adrian it should show some signs of fixing for the badge and the ridge (expert terminology.... not).

I can't quite beat your "pot to pee in" but many years ago in a small wood close to Vimy Ridge I thought I'd found a helmet in the undergrowth which did in fact turn out to be a discarded enamel mixing bowl which I suspect previously belonged to the local shooting club whose hq/hut was about 10m away.

Simon

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thanks,

Can anyone confirm that this is indeed a helmet?

Greetings Arne

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28 minutes ago, Arne Vandendriessche said:

Here the infrastructure of the helmet seems to match my find

 

https://www.olympiaauctions.com/sales/arms-armour/as070514/view-lot/176/

Its a skull cap i think

 

Where did you find it Arne? Which part of the country?

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Hey,

I found it in Poperinge in Belgium.
That location was behind the front, but there was a British hospital treating casualties from different countries.

Arne

 

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12 minutes ago, Arne Vandendriessche said:

Hey,

I found it in Poperinge in Belgium.
That location was behind the front, but there was a British hospital treating casualties from different countries.

Arne

 

I wonder if the artefact belongs to the Hundred Years War, which I understand, was fought in that area among others. It certainly doesn't appear to be a Great War helmet. Many of the helmets from that era seem to have rivet holes in the same place as yours.

Edited by Gunner 87
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Hey,

So do you think it is an older or more modern model?

Arne

 

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Posted (edited)

Where were stamps and marks usually placed?

Edited by Arne Vandendriessche
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It's certainly head shaped and the folded lip suggests early Adrian to me.  The original Adrian is described, by those far more knowkedgeable than me, thus "In 1915, an official protective helmet was introduced and it has been forever tied to its creator, Intendant-General August-Louis Adrian. His design was based on helmets used by Parisian firefighters. His creation resulted in a rather complex helmet that consisted of several individual stamped pieces that were riveted and/or welded together" 

The key phrase "several individual stamped pieces that were riveted and/or welded together" seems plausible here and I'd like to think that we are looking at the skull cap component of a deconstructed 1915 French Adrian rather than a period "vase de nuit". 

Off on a slight tangent, as is the way on any GWF educational ramble, I was amazed to read that a simple "soup bowl" type helmet actually preceded the 1915 Adrian that was intended to be worn under the Kepi and there was also an "Anglo French steel cap liner" in circulation:  Anglo-French Steel Cap Liner: British | Imperial War Museums (iwm.org.uk)

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Thank you,

Was that made of steel?
Because mine isn't.

Arne

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2 minutes ago, Arne Vandendriessche said:

Thank you,

Was that made of steel?
Because mine isn't.

Arne

All WW1 helmets were made of steel (of varying quality). If it's not steel, it's not a helmet. Or any kind of armour.

Cheers,

GT.

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Ok, Thanks

What I have is zinc.
But it does have features of a helmet.
I'll see if it can be a more modern or older model.

Arne

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24 minutes ago, Arne Vandendriessche said:

Ok, Thanks

What I have is zinc.
But it does have features of a helmet.
I'll see if it can be a more modern or older model.

Arne

Zinc is very soft: softer than gold, silver and aluminium.

It's very hard to imagine it being used for head protection, or any kind of armour for that matter.

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Hey,

I'm not sure it's zinc.
I'll get it checked out by someone who knows more about metals than I do.

Arne

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In some old US newspapers, there are mentions of zinc helmets, but I'm not sure that "helmet" means quite the same thing that we are thinking of nowadays. (Balaclavas were also referred to as "knitted helmets" even though they did not protect a person from head injuries.)

If Google is to be believed, the German army used zinc helmet liners in WWII.

1394375319_Screenshot2022-04-06at14_49_49.png.a0d266b88213ada55a07ac376bd4c1e9.png

Source: The Honolulu Republican, 7 April 1901. https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85047165/1901-04-07/ed-1/seq-1/

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Thank you,

 

Is aluminium possible for a helmet?
Can someone explain to me the difference between aluminuim and zinc?
I have an aluminium eating kettle at home and the oxidation on it also resembles the oxidation on the helmet. The oxidation consists of red spots and those flakes that you sometimes find on an old AA or AAA battery.

Arne

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Thanks,

 

Arne

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Hello,

What are the holes in the helmet for in this image?
On my find it are also those kind of holes.

 

Arne

 

SKULL CAP | Skull cap, Skull helmet, Medieval armor

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A question.

Were Adrian helmets ever galvanised (zinc coated)?

The process existed many decades before the ‘tin hat’ associated with WW1 was issued.

I am on a phone screen but the original photos look to have a ferrous appearance and wonder if the zinc appearance may be the remains of galvanisation?

As previously mentioned, I’m only guessing.

Simon

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Hi,

I hope someone on the forum has an answer, but I dont know much about it.

Arne

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11 hours ago, Arne Vandendriessche said:

Hello,

What are the holes in the helmet for in this image?
On my find it are also those kind of holes.

 

Arne

 

SKULL CAP | Skull cap, Skull helmet, Medieval armor

Hi Arne, as I'm sure you know, this image is a skull cap from the British Museum. The article states 'made of iron, of hemispherical form with rounded cut-outs for the ears. The main edge is plain, bordered by pairs of lining holes.....' 

As yours is soft metal I would think it rules this out but it is possible the holes are for ear protection, chin strap or lining if it is indeed a hemet.

https://www.britishmuseum.org/collection/object/H_1961-0202-29

kind regards Gunner 87

 

Edited by Gunner 87
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