WW1 Officers Photos

[TK1967]

Hi I’m appealing to members of the forum who could supply photos of the following Army Officers preferably circa 1918, however pre or post will be useful as well. Formal or informal. I apologise for the number of Officers listed however I have persevered for a year using the usual searches-IWM, Ancestry, Google etc. so any help will be very gratefully received!

Their ranks are substantive mainly around 1918/19 however most obviously had promotions and/or temp promotions during the war.

1) Capt Reginald William Welfare Hills M.C. RASC

2) Capt N P De Courtney Tronson 6th Batt North Staff R

3) Major Stanford Gower Hammack 4th Batt Warwick R

4) Major Norman Hubert Mattock Serv Batt Northern R

5) Lt R E Hutchins 5th Batt Middlesex R

6) Lt J A Riggall RE

7) Lt W S Browne RE

8) Cpt C J T Webb M.C. RFA

9) Cpt D Barry M.C. 

10) Cpt Lawrence Edwin Brooks (Church Army huts WW1/ 1919/20 68th Lab Corp 

11) Cpt G F Crawford 68th Lab corp

12) Sgt Thomas W Gearing RASC 

13) ? Sidney John Cosham RASC

14) Major H A Vernon DSO K.R.R.C. 

 

Thanks!

 

[Coldstreamer]

Just to clarify , you have checked local newspapers ?

[TK1967]

Yes to no joy

[PRC]

Hi @TimGeorge and welcome to the forum.

It might be an idea to tell us why you are looking for them, as there may well be common themes that will suggest possible lines of enquiry.

Additionally the most likely route to turn up pictures is usually local newspapers. Some will be on line at the likes of the British Newspaper Archives \ FindMyPast and presumably Ancestry but many can only be seen at local country archives. For those you can't visit yourself then forum members may be able to assist.

As the men you have listed were officers they had to apply for any service medals they were entitled to. This means that a significant number of their Medal Index Cards, (MiC), are likely to have contact addresses on the back - which in turn can give some clue as to which local newspapers they might turn up in. Even with just a simple free account on Ancestry you can see front and back of the MiC. That can be used with genealogical sources to establish other likely areas that might be fruitful to investigate.

The MiC for Reginald William Welfare Hills connects him to Finchley for example.

Image courtesy of Ancestry.

It also shows a connection to the Royal Fusiliers. There are several members on the forum who take an interest in that unit and I believe there was a contemporary Regimental publication while might include a picture.

The birth of a Reginald William Welfare Hills, mothers' maiden name Welfare, was registered with the civil authorities in the Sevenoaks District of Kent in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1894 and I assume is the most likely match. On the 1901 Census of England & Wales there is a 6 year old Reginald W.W. Hills, born Riverhead, Kent and recorded living with his parents at Sunny Bank, Riverbank. Parents were Jacob William, Coal Merchant & Contractor, and Emily. On the 1911 Census of England & Wales the family were recorded living at Bradbourne House, Riverhead. The 16 year old Reginald William Welfare Hills was recorded working as a Clerk to a Coke & Coal Merchant, so probably employed by his father. Both addresses fell with the Sevenoaks Civil Registration District. A high level search of the 1921 Census of England & Wales show likely matches for father Jacob William and mother Emily still recorded in the Sevenoaks "Parish".

I don't subscribe but from what can be publicly searched on FindMyPast, (likely to be identical on the British Newspaper Archives), I came across at least two mentions potentially of Reginald Hills, of Riverhead, giving you examples of likely Newspaper titles where a picture of him might turn up. There may also be subsequently coverage of the marriage under the locale of his bride. The earlier pre-war one may relate to a school, church or youth organisation that may in turn have an archive.

Image courtesy FindMyPast

As you can seen the software used to convert the scanned newspaper images into text is very far from perfect, so it pays to get creative with your search criteria. Hills for example could well turn as Hill5, Hi11s, 8ills, H1lls, Hill@ or any other combination you can think of, (and then some more!).

The exercise can be repeated for each of the individuals on your list, throwing up lots of potential leads.

BUT, (and there has to be a but), that assumes a picture ever existed.

Hope that helps,
Peter

Edited 16 March , 2022 by PRC
Typos

[TK1967]

Thank you for your full answer and suggestions- I have tried local paper archives.

All the Officers were in France or Belgium in 1920/1921 which is period I’m researching, either Area CO’s or attached to Directorate of Graves Registration and Enquiries. There are virtually no photos from that period except of the War Graves and some GRU Teams. There is a group photo of DGRE at GHQ at St Pol, France staff but no list of who is in the photo. Hoping to match other photos as at least some will be in it.

[Mark1959]

If you scroll down on this page you will find a pic of a Lt Col H A Vernon KRRC 

https://www.gutenberg.org/files/20377/20377-h/20377-h.htm

[TK1967]

Thanks very much Mark!

[Mark1959]

Norman Graham Piers de Coudray Tronson seems to be his proper name. No luck yet

[TK1967]

Thanks Mark- it’s not easy!

[Mark1959]

https://www.dcmmedals.co.uk/product/historically-interesting-second-war-1941-o-b-e-great-war-1918-french-theatre-m-c-group-who-commanded-force-k6-indian-troops-bef-in-1939-previously/

Seems to be Hills if you read the biog. There is a photo of him in old age. The first black and white thumbnail

[TK1967]

That one older pic I did find for Hills unfortunately as it’s from the 1950’s it’s a bit tricky to use for ID. As I’m sure you know, the archetype of the dark haired Officer with a moustache, usually in a cap,25-45, not overweight and often sitting down in group shots makes ID particularly difficult, especially when the sharpness of group photos is not good!

[Mark1959]

Yes.They all look the same.  Running out of time today. But a little project for my spare time over the next few days. 

N H Mattock became a Headmaster of Shawbury School in the Coventry area. 

[TK1967]

Yes he was a remarkable man -worked with young offenders and got an OBE later for that long work. I found a distant photo of him in a newspaper article, again from 1950’s but no good to ID.

[PRC]

Capt N P De Courtney Tronson 6th Batt North Staff R \ Norman Graham Piers de Coudray Tronson

 According to his MiC he ended up as a Lieutenant Colonel of the North Staffordshire Regiment, although he only landed in France as a Captain in the 6th Battalion on the 10th August 1918.*

When he applied for his medals in November 1922 it looks like his contact address was Msr Peirelle(?), Rue du Tennis, Dinard, France.

 *MiC appears to be wrong as the War Diary of the 2/6th Battalion has an entry for a Capt. N G P de C Tronson who took over command of that Battalion on the 27/10/1917.

Image courtesy The Ogilby Muster https://www.theogilbymuster.com/record/2849545

Most likely match in the civil birth registers – there is a Norman Graham de Coudray Tronson, (no Piers), mothers’ maiden name Ottley, whose birth was registered with the civil authorities in the Lewisham Union in Q1 1876.

On the 1881 Census of England & Wales there is a 5 year old Norman Tronson, born Lewisham, who was recorded living at 12 Hope Park, Bromley. This was the household of his parents Norman P.M. Tronson, a 36 year old Bank Manager and his wife Emily H. Tronson, also 36. Both were born London.

On the 1891 Census of England & Wales there is a 15 year old Norman Graham de Coudray Tronson, born Lewisham Kent, who was recorded as a Boarding School Pupil at United Services Proprietary College, Westward Ho, Northam, Devon. They may have an archive. http://www.westwardhohistory.co.uk/united-services-college/

The London Gazette dated December 12, 1899 records that Lieutenant Norman Graham Piers de Coudray Tronson from the 3rd Volunteer Battalion, was to be a Lieutenant in the 4th Battalion, East Surrey Regiment with effect from the 27th November 1899. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/27143/page/8332/data.pdf

Spinks had his Boer War Medals for sale in 2014, although the piece that goes with them is slightly confusing as the medals appear to been issued by the Leicestershire Regiment but he was serving with the East Surrey Regiment.

Image courtesy Spinks and Son. https://issuu.com/spinkandson/docs/14003

His presence in South Africa explains his absence on the 1901 Census of England & Wales, but by the time of 1911 Census all British Army Garrisons across the Empire were in scope. He does not appear to be recorded. His father and mother were recorded living at 15 Langside Avenue, Putney.

A check of Harts Annual Army List for 1911 shows no-one with the surname Tronson on the Active or Reserve List.

On the 1911 Census of Ireland there is however a 35 year old Norman Tronson, born England, who was recorded as the Head of the family in a dwelling at Grangemore, Giltown, County Kildare. He describes himself as H.M. Army Retired – late Leicestershire Regiment. He lives there with his 31 year old wife Kathleen, who was born in the U.S.A. The couple have three live in servants. http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Kildare/Gilltown/Grangemore/543328/

I don’t think there is a picture of him in this newspaper report but someone with access either via FindMyPast or the British Newspaper Archive may want to check it out.

Image courtesy FindMyPast

I can find a number of pictures of East Surrey Regiment Officers in the Boer War online, but most of the individuals are not identified. Could be worth trying the Surrey History Centre, although given that the Boer War was was nearly twenty years before the period you are interested in, the pictures may be as unhelpful for making comparisons as any from later in life. https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/culture-and-leisure/history-centre

I’m not getting any picture matches for Tronson in the searchable online records of the Staffordshire Regiment Museum available at The Ogilby Muster.  https://www.theogilbymuster.com/staffordshire_regiment_museum

Lots of possible picture sources in there, but so far no joy.

Cheers,
Peter

 

Edited 16 March , 2022 by PRC
Typo

[TK1967]

Thanks Peter that’s fantastic detail-I feel I should pay you! 
I will check the photos as youthful photos are better than none.

In terms of detail it would actually be more useful to know what they were doing 1919-21? It’s a more difficult time than during the war (despite the censorship) as it obviously got far less attention in the press and War diaries stop. There are the Army lists of course but whilst they might show Regiment and rank but not exact roles or specific locations working. Obviously DGRE listed excepted.

[PRC]

13 minutes ago, TimGeorge said:

In terms of detail it would actually be more useful to know what they were doing 1919-21?

I suspect all of the men on your list are over 110 years old, so in theory anyone could apply for a copy of their records, although the cost would be a tad off-putting. Alternatively as they are all likely to have been born before the end of 1901, their records are probably now transferred to the National Archive where the plan is for them to be scanned and put on line by FindMyPast. I just wouldn't hold my breath on that one The MoD say they can recall records that have been passed over to the National Archive if an enquiry is received but I suspect you probably don't want to go down that route.

For the likes of Reginald Hills and Norman Tronson I have taken a look at the high-level search, (i.e. free), that's available on FindMyPast for the 1921 Census of England & Wales which was taken on the 4th June 1921. For someone like Norman Tronson there could be all sorts of reasons why he wasn't present - he could still have been carrying out the role you've identified him in in France \ Belgium, he could be in Ireland where he was living in 1911, he had an American wife, etc, etc. Maybe there is something in the July 1921 newspaper article that will give some details that will help with his recent whereabouts.

The search of the Staffordshire Regiment Museum records for "Tronson" did include a page of officer movements in the opening quarter of 1919 - with Tronson returning to the UK I believe in April 1919. By the start of July 1921 he had resigned his commission so that bookends the period to be accounted for. Obviously if the picture you are interested in is late 1921 then he can be ruled out of those present.

Talking of the picture, is the resolution high enough to be able to work out cap badges and medal ribbons?

iF you are looking at 1919-21, Tronson for instance would be entitled to wear the Queens South Africa Medal Ribbon and I believe even by the start of 1919 the Victory Medal and British War Medal. Many of the other Boer War veterans would have been entitled to either the 1914 Star or the 1914/15 Star, so the medal ribbons over his left breast pocket should be fairly distinctive. Combine that with a North Staffs capbadge and you'd propably be able to identify him with a high degree of probability.

Cheers,
Peter

[TK1967]

I wish Peter-no almost impossible to see cap badges or ribbons!

Tronson is CO of a District near Arras in France late 1920 so definitely out there then. All the names were in France during later 1920 that’s for sure.

Army records are often useful source but it’s photos I need more than anything.

[Mark1959]

Jabez Allan Riggall from Louth/Grimsby was commissioned into East Riding Engineers 27/8/1915. He was an Inland Revenue Valuer in 1911 census, 

His brother was killed https://www.westernfrontassociation.com/on-this-day/16-february-1915-flight-lieut-edward-gordon-riggall/

So maybe worth checking the pic for someone who looks like Edward

[Mark1959]

Some have ADG R & E or DG, R & E on their Medal cards. This is Directorate of Graves Registration and Enquiries (IWGC) e.g. Walter Stowell Browne and Reginald Edmund Hutchins. This is a good clue that you have the right man

Walter Stowell Browne I have found in a newspaper report in Stapleford & Sandiacre News 06 July 1929 (Notts). In which he is describes as an Area Supt of the WGC and son in law of a local man. Report indicates an OBE.

Edited 17 March , 2022 by Mark1959

[Mark1959]

Only one D Barry in MC index. David. Sgt Major ASC. S/13233. Later commissioned and Capt in Labour Corps. His Other Rank records still exist. Boer War Vet. Some of docs not readable. Looks like appointed to .... after discharge. Native of Co. Cork and had an LS&GC Medal. Born c 1878

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31932/supplement/6322 Bottom right show his appointment to the Directorate. Looks like he was commaning a Prisoner of War Company before that. 

Edited 17 March , 2022 by Mark1959

[TK1967]

22 minutes ago, Mark1959 said:

Only one D Barry in MC index. David. Sgt Major ASC. S/13233. Later commissioned and Capt in Labour Corps. His Other Rank records still exist. Boer War Vet. Some of docs not readable. Looks like appointed to .... after discharge. Native of Co. Cork and had an LS&GC Medal. Born c 1878

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31932/supplement/6322 Bottom right show his appointment to the Directorate

Thank you Peter- I see Lt R E Hutchins is also on that list-another name of interest. If only we could put faces to names!

[Mark1959]

The uniforms they are wearing in the pic may help differentiate. Insignia may put them in a particular regiment or corps. Mark

[TK1967]

Can I send it to you privately as it is a private copyright?

[Mark1959]

You may be interested in 

https://dspace.lib.cranfield.ac.uk/bitstream/handle/1826/15607/First_World_War_example_of_Forensic_Archaeology-2020.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

this gives the views of Capt Crawford of 68th Labour Company about the process of what his unit was doing

 

 

[Mark1959]

User Frogsmile is a great expert on uniforms. I would suggest sending a Private Message to him. Much more likely to be able to differentiate than I.