thedawnpatrol Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 Hi i have an interesting log book to, i believe an Observer who flew operationally but sadly its not named.....it would be nice to put a name to this log..............or at least a squadron............. over to you 'detectives' thank you. Best Julian. Unknown Log Book.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 1 hour ago, thedawnpatrol said: Unknown Log Book.pdf 3.71 MB · 6 downloads 1. Royal Naval Air Service - page 2: 2. 'Lieut D'Albiac' who flew with the pilot as a 'Passenger' on 09 February (page 8) may be - John Henry D'Albiac: 3 Feb 1915: Observer, No 1 Sqn RNAS. 21 Jun 1915: Observer, No 1 Wing RNAS. Awarded the DSO: “Lieutenant John Henry D’Albiac, R.M.A. In recognition of his services as an aeroplane observer at Dunkirk since February, 1915. During the past year Lieutenant D’Albiac has been continually employed in coastal reconnaissances and fighting patrols. The Vice-Admiral Commanding the Dover Patrol, in reporting on the work of the R.N.A.S. at Dunkirk, lays particular emphasis on the good work done by the observers.” (London Gazette – 22 June 1916) https://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/DAlbiac.htm JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 A bit of a long shot, but I wonder if the 'Midshipman Rogers' could be this chap http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/RogersA.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 (edited) 'Passenger Cmdr Groves' (10 February, page 9) - Robert Marsland Groves appointed Officer Commanding, No 1 Wing RNAS on 12 January 1916: https://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/GrovesR.htm wiki entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Marsland_Groves Edit below DSO: "Commander Robert Marsland Groves,. R.N. (Wing Commander, R.N.A.S.). In recognition of his services in command of a Wing of the Royal Naval Air Service at Dunkirk. Commander Groves has by his personal skill as a pilot, and also by his untiring zeal, effected a marked advancement in the general standard of flying on active service. He has on several occasions carried out successful reconnaissances to Ostend under fire, and by his own example has proved the utility and great importance of night flying." London Gazette - 22 Jun 1916, page 6211: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29635/supplement/1 JP Edited 14 March , 2022 by helpjpl Edit - DSO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 14 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2022 thank you both, that's a good start, of course i may have been wrong assuming he was an Observer............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 (edited) re entry - Feb 8th - 2.30 Lieut. Nutting:- Here's a Nutting who was at No.1 Wing at the right time http://www.rafweb.org/Biographies/Nutting.htm edit to add - the Feb 9th entry re Wireless Exercise with Nutting on board also suggests it was Charles W Nutting Edited 14 March , 2022 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 13 minutes ago, thedawnpatrol said: of course i may have been wrong assuming he was an Observer............... page 3: JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 14 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2022 1 hour ago, helpjpl said: page 3: JP that's not solely so, there were no 'Observers' log books and they used the same Army book 425. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 (edited) 55 minutes ago, thedawnpatrol said: that's not solely so, there were no 'Observers' log books and they used the same Army book 425. From the Log Book of RNAS Observer WJL Twite. On this and the other pages in the link, the heading 'Passenger' is crossed out and the word 'Pilot' added: https://www.emedals.com/europe/great-britain/the-wii-r-n-a-s-log-book-of-observer-w-twife-gb2703#lg=1&slide=7 JP Edited 14 March , 2022 by helpjpl to add link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 Despite all the helpful advice above, this is most certainly a pilot, NOT an observer. However, If anyone had D'Albiac's, or Grove's logbooks their Pilot should be identified A Squadron, 1 Wing in early 1916 was mostly equipped with 2 seaters and carried out various duties along the coast, fighting patrols (with a gunner in the passenger seat), reconnaissance (with an Observer), spotting, zeppelin patrols etc. Some Nieuport 10's and 12's had the second seat sheeted over and were 'sort of' flown as a single seat scout. It can be seen that on Feb 5th a new BE2C was picked up from Dover, without a passenger!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 14 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2022 thank you all, this is all very interesting and helpful. i guess a search through the squadron Operations book would have the answer if it exists ? so to confirm what we know so far, he was a Pilot............almost certainly RNAS ? but using the army book 425 as opposed to the RNAS book....... also perhaps this is his second log book, as there is no pilot training preceding the start of this log, or he used it as an extra unofficial diary..... again thank you all for your input so far.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 Page 5, 6th February - Flight Sub-Lieutenants receiving flying instruction from your (as yet unknown) pilot: a) Allan Switzer Todd -the only RNAS Todd that I've found (Royal Aero Club card from ancestry): Todd was KIA 04 January 1917: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/777668/allan-switzer-todd/ https://www.veterans.gc.ca/eng/remembrance/memorials/canadian-virtual-war-memorial/detail/777668 b) Henry Victor German (Royal Aero Club card from ancestry): CEF personnel record: https://central.bac-lac.gc.ca/.item/?op=pdf&app=CEF&id=B3480-S031 JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 (edited) The summary: Definitely a Pilot Definitely RNAS A Squadron 1 Wing, which eventually ended up as No.1 Squadron, based at St Pol at that time - Roderick Dallas and Bertram Bell, and of course German, Leslie, Bigin (I think) and Todd were among the pilots with this squadron in that time period - the "Instruction" reference is to a 30 minute formation practice possibly being led by BC Bell who is at the top of the list - I would suggest it is not instruction being given by the author of the logbook, though the author may well be one of the names in the list receiving the instruction Logbook is quite normal for RNAS pilots as you say, where is his training at home establishment? The aircraft serial numbers recorded are often a bit "suspect" - the wrong manufacturer sometimes being recorded for the Serial number - It "looks like" someone has been in and edited some serial numbers - I have seen that done before, often incorrectly. Edited 14 March , 2022 by MikeW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 14 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 14 March , 2022 The Log Book belonged to Tony Mellor Ellis, before me, who some of you may remember as a member of Cross & Cockade, he made some basic assumptions years ago. But never got to the bottom of who this pilot was..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeW Posted 14 March , 2022 Share Posted 14 March , 2022 Just a suggestion - obtain the RNAS Disposition Lists for February and March 1916 - they will list the full complement of Officers in A Squadron 1 Wing in Flight Structure. Usually Formation Instruction was performed by the Flight Commander, in this case Bell. Bell's Flight will be listed and I'll bet it comprises Leslie, Todd, Bigin and German and maybe one other. If there is one other shown, that's your man. If that is the total Flight complement then you have narrowed it down to 4 names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 15 March , 2022 Share Posted 15 March , 2022 22 hours ago, helpjpl said: Page 5, 6th February - Flight Sub-Lieutenants receiving flying instruction from your (as yet unknown) pilot: 22 hours ago, MikeW said: A Squadron 1 Wing, which eventually ended up as No.1 Squadron, based at St Pol at that time - Roderick Dallas and Bertram Bell, and of course German, Leslie, Bigin (I think) and Todd were among the pilots with this squadron in that time period - the "Instruction" reference is to a 30 minute formation practice possibly being led by BC Bell who is at the top of the list - I would suggest it is not instruction being given by the author of the logbook, though the author may well be one of the names in the list receiving the instruction 1. I don't see BC Bell at the top of the list. I see F.SLts - short for Flight Sub-Lieutenants: 2. I think Bigin is Mervyn Joshua Marshall Bryan (Royal Aero Club card from ancestry): Regards JP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 15 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2022 Thank you JP, I really appreciate your persistence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
helpjpl Posted 15 March , 2022 Share Posted 15 March , 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, thedawnpatrol said: Thank you JP, I really appreciate your persistence I recognise most of the names in the Log Book. Log Book - 08 February (page 7): Graham Fl.Lt. very badly damaged in scout, soon after getting off. Graham is Charles Walter Graham DSO. Hotel Burlington, Dover. 9th February, 1916. You have heard me mention Graham (with Ince he brought down the German seaplane). Well, he has just had an awful bad crash at Dunkirk. https://www.gutenberg.org/files/53168/53168-h/53168-h.htm DSO https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/29487/supplement/1 Graham was killed 08 September 1916 when his aircraft stalled on take-off, diving into the sea from 200 feet. The bombs he was carrying exploded and his aircraft was completely wrecked. a) http://www.rcawsey.co.uk/Acc1916.htm b) https://artuk.org/discover/artworks/charles-walter-graham-18931916-dso-rnas-40717 Charles Walter Graham is buried in Barnes Old Cemetery: https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/399940/charles-walter-graham/ JP Edited 15 March , 2022 by helpjpl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 15 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2022 Gosh that's really sad....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 15 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 15 March , 2022 Reading Harold Boshers account, he mentions travelling in the Rolls on the 16th February........the pilot in the Log Book also mentions traveling in the CO's Rolls on the 14th February........ so tantalisingly close.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmeg Posted 16 March , 2022 Share Posted 16 March , 2022 (edited) Feb 7th gives you midshipman Earp as Obs, and "duck flight shooting with Haskins", Feb Flt Lt Sims, 20 Feb 2nd Lt Gow and Commdr Gross (above). Also on the 20th he fished with the dotor AND under that is a note- Gross? (I can't quite make it out but I' m guessing a name? - wooden leg. Stepney. So ?Gross? or someone had a wooden leg and came from Stepney? that might help positively ID ?Gross. 'Friday" (sometime after 20th) we have George Prettyman and Clark visiting. They dined on the "Marshal Soult"- I'm assuming a french warship . Sunday- Sub lt Mallett Pencil note that in CO rolls to see Prettymans squadron (may not be by original author?) 17th Feb- C??? Briggs, padre and Mc M(aden?) EDIT- Harold Douglas Briggs ? Commander or Commodore? Lt Col and T/Brig Gen while Director. 20th Feb (FS? ) Lt Furnix/Funix The record stops on the 20th- there appear to still be pages in the book- should we be looking for a pilot who's career ended around about that date? Edited 16 March , 2022 by Madmeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmeg Posted 16 March , 2022 Share Posted 16 March , 2022 (edited) George Frederick Pretyman (sic) DSO ex Somerset. Appears t be 1st Squadron. Edited 16 March , 2022 by Madmeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmsk212 Posted 16 March , 2022 Share Posted 16 March , 2022 6 hours ago, Madmeg said: 'Friday" (sometime after 20th) we have George Prettyman and Clark visiting. They dined on the "Marshal Soult"- I'm assuming a french warship . HMS Marshal Soult was a British Ney Class Monitor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmeg Posted 16 March , 2022 Share Posted 16 March , 2022 Ah, he mentions the monitors a couple of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedawnpatrol Posted 16 March , 2022 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2022 well done guys...............your really getting there............ nothing in the log book after the 20th...............so perhaps a casualty ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now