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Remembered Today:

Berthier M16 Carbine curious stamp.


Mickster
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I had intentions of merely showcasing this pleasant little carbine. & its interesting tell tale history features. Then while wearing my specs I noticed what I find as an unusual stamp marking. Rather reminiscent of the Imperial Eagle or perhaps the eagle emblem of Poland.

 (Manufacture d'armes de Châtellerault) MAC

Firstly I love its armoury wood work repairs and how they filled in the channel that housed the barrel cleaning rod yet retained the original front barrel band that has the bayonet stub and cleaning rod retaining facility.

The carbine has matching numbers on trigger unit, barrel, bolt and bolt head, The curious stamp is on the base of the bolt lever and was mistaken by me with tired old eyes as being the little floral stamp that denotes a refurbishment,

Please see 1st photo of bolt lever891729382_boltcuriousmarking.JPG.bb81afc5a6816eba039dfa0b8a431d8e.JPG

01 Carbine left.jpg

02 carbine right.jpg

03 Berthier carbine M16 left side view.JPG

04 Berthier carbine right hand view.JPG

05 Barrel serial number wiindow.JPG

06 Bayonet stubb, racking pin with barrel band still retaining provision for the obsolete cleaning rod. Cleaning rod channel filled with wood strip.JPG

07 Manufacture Nationale d'Armes de Châtellerault (MAC).JPG

08 Sights as new.jpg

09 Trigger unit & matching serial number.JPG

010 Bolt close up.jpg

011 Open bolt.jpg

012 Refurbished bolt indicated by flower motif stamped on bolt lever base.JPG

013 Butt showing sling loop and Different serial number.JPG

Edited by Mickster
I dropped my peanut butter sarnie on my key board.
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Nice example.

I can't help on the stamp - but I shall go and have a look through some of my references.

I have a real soft spot for Berthier carbines - although they seem to be a complete minefield of markings, refurbishments, conversions etc in part because they had a long service life in France and then later in parts of the French Empire.  You don't mention it but is it stamped for the Balle N ammunition?

Some of mine and a couple of rifles are shown on this older thread -- although somewhere I thought I took a better "family shot" and a selection of bayonets to fit -- starting here

Chris

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1 hour ago, 4thGordons said:

Nice example.

I can't help on the stamp - but I shall go and have a look through some of my references.

I have a real soft spot for Berthier carbines - although they seem to be a complete minefield of markings, refurbishments, conversions etc in part because they had a long service life in France and then later in parts of the French Empire.  You don't mention it but is it stamped for the Balle N ammunition?

Some of mine and a couple of rifles are shown on this older thread -- although somewhere I thought I took a better "family shot" and a selection of bayonets to fit -- starting here

Chris

Hi Chris. I too love these carbines as they all appear to have had a long interesting service. Yes it has the letter 'N' stamp near the knox and it looks like the rear sights have been overhauled as it has that quaint little flower stamp there. I will check out your older thread.

I recently had to let this one go Chris. It now lives in Carnoustie Scotland but I managed to hold onto my other Carbine, MLE 1907-15. My very first acquisition.

Mickster

 

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This is not imperial eagle but fireproof E/N of BRD postwar in reality You have it on bolt stamped is a english postwar fireproof, the carbine M16 is missmatch as AC and BC on various parts stamped, .Was saled on commerzial market postwar WW2 in english and german area. In front of serial should be too stamp, unfortunally here blurry pictures.

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1 hour ago, AndyBsk said:

This is not imperial eagle but fireproof E/N of BRD postwar in reality You have it on bolt stamped is a english postwar fireproof, the carbine M16 is missmatch as AC and BC on various parts stamped, .Was saled on commerzial market postwar WW2 in english and german area. In front of serial should be too stamp, unfortunally here blurry pictures.

Cheers Andy. I was totally unaware that English fireproof stamps would resemble a spread eagle. I did notice the AC, DC stamps but didnt know what they were. Im assuming they are parts from different manufactures, yet, other than the stock, they all carry the same serial number. 

warm regards

Mickster

 

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Probably wrongly described by me or wrong readed there are 2 postwar proofs, one english visible on bolt locking piece over 77 and most real in front of serial number in the slot of wood covering barell, and second german postwar fireproof on bolt handle stem base, Eagle /N. The reciever when You have more detailed pictures, would be clearly stamped by the dealer firma probably, it was made by Chatellerault, even not visible on side rail as refurbished,

906977112_M16proofs.jpg.99db427db90dbac5eb8cd47b3e80619d.jpg

Edited by AndyBsk
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1 hour ago, AndyBsk said:

Probably wrongly described by me or wrong readed there are 2 postwar proofs, one english visible on bolt locking piece over 77 and most real in front of serial number in the slot of wood covering barell, and second german postwar fireproof on bolt handle stem base, Eagle /N. The reciever when You have more detailed pictures, would be clearly stamped by the dealer firma probably, it was made by Chatellerault, even not visible on side rail as refurbished,

906977112_M16proofs.jpg.99db427db90dbac5eb8cd47b3e80619d.jpg

Cheers AndyBsk Interesting findings, The Chatellerault is there but very weak or worn with the surface re-blued during refurbishment, it has MAC 1933 under the woodwork opposite the barrel serial number. What are the AC and DC stamps ?

Mickster

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AC is prefix series so the metall parts have the AC series 61577 serialing and butstock is from BC series 27326. Each series had 100000 pcs produced. MAC 1933 means the barell was replaced in 1933. Normally the AC series was realised in 1918, so the barell should be 1918 dated. BC series was reported as postwar 1920 production.

Edited by AndyBsk
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7 hours ago, AndyBsk said:

AC is prefix series so the metall parts have the AC series 61577 serialing and butstock is from BC series 27326. Each series had 100000 pcs produced. MAC 1933 means the barell was replaced in 1933. Normally the AC series was realised in 1918, so the barell should be 1918 dated. BC series was reported as postwar 1920 production.

Much appreciated Andy B. I can now approach my next project with more knowledge. I have another Berthier carbine and rifle to conserve next.

Mickster

 

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