Blackened Bronze(?) Panels on War Memorials: has anyone found a way of cleaning them?

[Mickster]

On 09/02/2022 at 16:40, Matlock1418 said:

Interesting to note that in the CWGC Annual Report of 1926-27 there is reference to headstones being treated with "fluate dressing" to prevent growth of moss etc.

Image courtesy of CWGC - within: http://archive.cwgc.org/GetMultimedia.ashx?db=Catalog&type=default&fname=f1\f2605d-b9aa-4b7f-883c-366ec891af36.pdf 

Anyone know:

• What was this fluate dressing?
• Does CWGC apply any such type(s) of dressings to headstones and/or Stones of Remembrance or Crosses of Sacrifice or Memorials nowadays?

M

Fluate is a waterproofing solution rather like damp proofing fluid or other liquid silicons used to waterproof or guard against damp on stone and brickwork, even patio slabs.

Mickster 

[Mickster]

On 08/02/2022 at 21:13, Matlock1418 said:

Hmm ... Things seem to have moved on ... Thanks for this update.

Care must certainly be employed, and even more now it seems.

Not perhaps when cleaned by EOHO but when others clean with a stiff natural bristle brush I foresee more replacement portland headstones being required - the evidence I have previously seen with my own eyes. :-/

M

Hog hair brushes are natural but rough, horse hair is softer and natural, squirrel & sable hair is very soft and natural.

Mickster

 

[Mickster]

On 29/01/2022 at 11:57, Matlock1418 said:

Some cast bronze was perhaps/is now quite often given a chemically-induced patina = Caution when anybody considers any cleaning.

[also agree with caution regarding how the owners/custodians might feel about such cleaning activities]

Just an aside - if you want one - at least one modern/current internationally-recognised UK foundry I know of doing artistic sculptural castings can give your bronze a chemically-induced patina(s) in a range of colours including sugar pink! [Returning to the OP question = They may perhaps be able to provide advice on cleaning bronzes ?? - possibly providing a cleaning service for the right type of applicants ???]

M

Yes in deed Matlock1418. Some bronze work especially that outdoor was intended to be dark brown or black. Polished bronze would glare in sunlight plus quickly dull with weather requiring too much polish resulting in wear. The sombre black patina creates a more respectful Victorian / Edwardian type setting. Its an easy process that actually protects the bronze / copper alloy too. In some cases I simply use white vinegar but for darker requirements a wash of sulfurated potash, ferric nitrate and distilled water is is applied. (Ancient artefacts restoration)

Mickster

[Matlock1418]

8 hours ago, Mickster said:

Fluate is a waterproofing solution

As I had rather concluded - I don't know what its composition might be though.

And as I wondered - Do CWGC use such or similar measures today?

8 hours ago, Mickster said:

Hog hair brushes are natural but rough, horse hair is softer and natural, squirrel & sable hair is very soft and natural.

Agreed hog hair is pretty rough - but in contrast to a soft brush that was originally suggested there was the suggestion that such soft brushes would not be adequate/suitable for EOHO purposes when using water alone.  I was quite surprised by this later suggestion.

I was horrififed to see used and would not myself use a very stiff brush, including stiff synthetic bristle, for the cleaning of portland headstones and certainly not with a vigorous action as has personally been observed done by others.

That said I would think the softer natural hairs you offered would be more suitable for artistic painting and the application of make-up rather than the cleaning of large headstones and memorials with water - but then again I am not an artefacts restorer or an EOHO trained volunteer.

8 hours ago, Mickster said:

Some bronze work especially that outdoor was intended to be dark brown or black. Polished bronze would glare in sunlight plus quickly dull with weather requiring too much polish resulting in wear. The sombre black patina creates a more respectful Victorian / Edwardian type setting.

Yes - hence my caution.

Never done it myself but patination is a very interesting process to watch being applied to sculptures.  Remarkable effects possible.

M

[Mickster]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

As I had rather concluded - I don't know what its composition might be though.

And as I wondered - Do CWGC use such or similar measures today?

Agreed hog hair is pretty rough - but in contrast to a soft brush that was originally suggested there was the suggestion that such soft brushes would not be adequate/suitable for EOHO purposes when using water alone.  I was quite surprised by this later suggestion.

I was horrififed to see used and would not myself use a very stiff brush, including stiff synthetic bristle, for the cleaning of portland headstones and certainly not with a vigorous action as has personally been observed done by others.

That said I would think the softer natural hairs you offered would be more suitable for artistic painting and the application of make-up rather than the cleaning of large headstones and memorials with water - but then again I am not an artefacts restorer or an EOHO trained volunteer.

Yes - hence my caution.

Never done it myself but patination is a very interesting process to watch being applied to sculptures.  Remarkable effects possible.

M

Todays synthetic brushes are superb Matlock1418, unlike a while back they were like bristles on a scrubbing brush. Todays are all different amounts or softness/ stiffness and wear well too. Same goes for natural brushes ,,horse hair may be fine for stone work. Saying that decorators gloss work brushes would be dandy.

You are right, patination is a lovely process. I have found many Roman and English hammered coins from rivers and streams ( many from your neck of the woods ) where they are too bright from the process of tumbling around on watercourse beds. They look way too new, like a forgery but drop them into house hold bleach and watch them darken before your eyes.  left in bleach too long and they would be as black as coal.

Mickster

[Mickster]

38 minutes ago, Mickster said:

Todays synthetic brushes are superb Matlock1418, unlike a while back they were like bristles on a scrubbing brush. Todays are all different amounts or softness/ stiffness and wear well too. Same goes for natural brushes ,,horse hair may be fine for stone work. Saying that decorators gloss work brushes would be dandy. Art brushes are not all tiny, They can come as big as house painter brushes too.

You are right, patination is a lovely process. I have found many Roman and English hammered coins from rivers and streams ( many from your neck of the woods ) where they are too bright from the process of tumbling around on watercourse beds. They look way too new, like a forgery but drop them into house hold bleach and watch them darken before your eyes.  left in bleach too long and they would be as black as coal.

Mickster