Medal ribbons used for braces?

[FrancesH]

This is a very random enquiry. I read somewhere ages ago that during the depression in the 1920s and 30s when servicemen sold their medals, the ribbons were sometimes used to make braces (suspenders in USA parlance). Does anyone know if there's any truth in this, or is it just a myth? If so do you have any evidence? 

[RNCVR]

Never seen any but I read somewhere few yrs back of that practice occurring.  Perhaps an 'urban myth'  tho?

[Matlock1418]

2 hours ago, FrancesH said:

I read somewhere ages ago that during the depression in the 1920s and 30s when servicemen sold their medals, the ribbons were sometimes used to make braces (suspenders in USA parlance). Does anyone know if there's any truth in this, or is it just a myth?

Given the standard length of a medal ribbon [as provided with a medal] - I reckon they would only fit 'Action Man' ;-)

Might be possible now since you can now buy new ribbon by the metre. :-/

M

[Coldstreamer]

A neck badge ribbon might be long enough 

[Kath]

Search FMP newspapers for "Medal Ribbons" & all lengths turn up.

Croydon Times 28 July 1920

[Matlock1418]

2 minutes ago, Kath said:

Search FMP newspapers for "Medal Ribbons" & all lengths turn up.

Croydon Times 28 July 1920

Interesting - seems: Give 'em enough ribbon and they can get themselves into trouble!

I wonder for what purpose was he in possession ??

Similarly I wonder what the grounds for leniency were - Does the rest of the article expand ???

M

[Kath]

10 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said:

Does the rest of the article expand ?

Yes.

[Matlock1418]

 

26 minutes ago, Kath said:

Thanks - Quite a tale in times which were hard for many ex-servicemen.

His wife being "in a certain condition" must have swung it!

However the £3 fine may have hurt nevertheless.

Does show maybe braces/suspenders could have been fabricated [but not from sold medal ribbons] - Might a wearer not perhaps then have attracted rather unwanted attention fromthe police too??

And would it be considered 'good form'?  Seems rather like using your old school tie as a belt [to go with your braces?] - a bit disrespectful ??

M

Edited 24 January , 2022 by Matlock1418
typo

[Kath]

If you search further using those terms, the question of whether medals & ribbons should be worn is discussed!

[Matlock1418]

11 minutes ago, Kath said:

If you search further using those terms, the question of whether medals & ribbons should be worn is discussed!

Quite a few lines on the subject(s) on GWF!!!

M

[FrancesH]

Thank you all for your responses! I was fascinated by the story of the stolen reel of ribbon. What did he think he was going to do with it?? 

I agree, I think wearing braces made of medal ribbon, even if not from actual medals, would have been seen as very disrespectful. For some reason it hadn't occurred to me though that the ribbon on medals had to come from a roll just like any other ribbon. I can imagine that possibly 'edgy' Bright Young Things might have thought it amusing to commission braces or ties made from ribbon like that precisely because it would be disrespectful. However, since it is now clear that medal ribbon was available in suitable lengths for a purpose like that, I feel that trying to make braces out of short lengths from actual medals would be unnecessary and also produce rather useless braces. 

I think the conclusion is that braces made from actual medals' ribbon is probably an urban myth ... braces made from lengths of the same ribbon bought from a supplier -- possible. 

 

[TEW]

I've seen one example where a soldier had some medal ribbon before the issue of it had been authorised. His supplier was unofficial and the ribbon was 'fake'.

There may well have been miles of fake ribbon out there which could have been put to a variety of uses and not considered disrespectful?

TEW

[FrancesH]

I'm not sure that outside the realm of philosophy there can be such a thing as 'fake' ribbon. All striped ribbon, whatever its intended purpose, would still be ribbon. I should think this ribbon was of inferior (less hard-wearing perhaps) quality than that used for medals. 

The other interesting question this story raises is why would there be such a thing as 'fake' medal ribbon? I can only imagine it would be so that one could put it on fake medals. Anyone any other suggestions?

[TEW]

As I understand it and don't mind being corrected there were approved manufacturers of ribbon who had WO contracts who could then distribute to retailers. The precise design &  material specifications had to be adhered to.

I also thought retailers were only supposed to sell short lengths and certainly not enough for braces.

Why make fake ribbon?

People produce fake goods today to make money, same reason for fake ribbon. A black market in ribbon certainly existed and had enough buyers to support it.

TEW

Just to add that wearing ribbon preceded the issue of medals.

 

Edited 25 January , 2022 by TEW

[FrancesH]

The black market in ribbon presumably existed so that the buyers could affix ribbons to which they were not entitled? I can't see another reason. Fascinating. I've found two relevant items, first one from 1916 about 'credulous Tommies', and second one from 1922 about, I suppose, credulous public ...

 

[TEW]

I'm not so sure the average Tommy in EG. 1918 understood ribbon wearing regulations or the criteria for a 1914 Star ribbon.

There may have been an intention to deceive or he just got carried away while on leave.

By the time they had medals most of them were out of uniform and had no need for fake ribbon for show on uniform.

I wonder what the authorities did with all the confiscated fake ribbon.

TEW

[squirrel]

13 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

...would it be considered 'good form'?  Seems rather like using your old school tie as a belt [to go with your braces?] - a bit disrespectful ??

M

Not unusual to see public school students using a school tie as a belt for their cricket or tennis "whites".

[TEW]

Thought I'd add this extract from Hansard regarding 'dodgy' ribbon being sold by the Army & Navy Stores, Cardiff.

TEW

[FrancesH]

Well, my original idle question has thrown up much more information than I ever expected!

[TEW]

Certainly not an idle question and opens up all sorts of ideas that medal ribbon might have been used for.

I did research Hansard long ago regarding medals and ribbons. Their archive search is almost useless now.

TEW

 

[FrancesH]

Glad you think the question has been useful, I've certainly found people's comments very interesting. And agree with you about Hansard -- I thought it was just me being thick ...

[Interested]

An interesting thread which has raised a question in my mind, never thought of this before.

In February 1918 my Grandfather was awarded the Belgian CdG and on home leave in March he was photographed wearing the ribbon.  The actual medal arrived in 1919 posthumously.  That begs the question: where did the ribbon come from?  Was it issued to him when he received the award, or did he have to purchase it independently, and if so, where from?

Anyone know?

[FrancesH]

That's interesting, and I hope someone can give you the answer! I must say I wondered whether COs had a little batch of ribbons laid by ... or in this case, of course, the Belgian authorities.

[AOK4]

10 minutes ago, Interested said:

An interesting thread which has raised a question in my mind, never thought of this before.

In February 1918 my Grandfather was awarded the Belgian CdG and on home leave in March he was photographed wearing the ribbon.  The actual medal arrived in 1919 posthumously.  That begs the question: where did the ribbon come from?  Was it issued to him when he received the award, or did he have to purchase it independently, and if so, where from?

Anyone know?

Some medals were in very short supply during the war and I have read official documents about only the ribbons being given at first until the medals themselves were produced and then sent out. This was for Finnish medals awarded to German soldiers in 1918. I can imagine similar situations may have occurred in other countries as well.

(nowadays, I think Belgian awards have to be bought by whoever is awarded them if I'm not mistaken, I doubt though that was also the case for a Croix de Guerre during the war)

Jan

[Matlock1418]

5 hours ago, squirrel said:

Not unusual to see public school students using a school tie as a belt for their cricket or tennis "whites".

I feel that is probably disrespect, quite likely deliberate, by a privilaged few.  But ties are really not about medal ribbons as braces/suspenders so will now say no more.

M