1st Bn Dorsets football team 1913/14

[cpnorfolk]

This is one of my grandfather's [Major R.E. Partridge MC] Dorsetshire Regiment photos of which he did not donate a copy to The Keep Museum. Again, from my blog at repartridge.wordpress.com. His annotation on the back reads: "1st Battalion Dorset Regiment Football XI. Belfast 1913/14".

Middle row 3rd from left is Lt. Col. L.J. Bols, 3rd from right middle row is Capt. & Adjt. A.L. Ransome, I think.

Any ideas as to the identities of the rest of them?

[PRC]

5 hours ago, cpnorfolk said:

3rd from right middle row is Capt. & Adjt. A.L. Ransome, I think

Well between the various threads I think that would give five potential images of Captain Ransome to make a comparison.

From left to right.

1st Battalion Sergeants, group shot with CO and Adjutant taken at Blackdown 1912
1st Battalion Officers taken at Blackdown 1912
This picture taken Belfast 1913/1914.
Tatler picture of the Officers of the 1st Battalion prior to departure for France.
Roadside shot end August 1914.

As to the team members, my thought would be if team lists appeared in reports on games in local newspapers. Unfortunately nothing coming up in the Irish newspapers on FMP - well at least with the search criteria I've used. I don't know if forum members @corisande or @museumtom can point you in the direction of any other Irish newspaper sources that might help.

Cheers,
Peter

[corisande]

8 hours ago, PRC said:

Unfortunately nothing coming up in the Irish newspapers on FMP

 

There is an Irish Newspaper archive that is much more comprehensive - https://www.irishnewsarchive.com/

But you would need to be as rich as @museumtomto subscribe - - its 29 euros a month or 149 euros a year -- I do not use it as FmP does a reasonably adequate job, but does fail  in a number of areas

[ A.L. Ransome certainly has a distinctive pair of ears]

Edited 4 January , 2022 by corisande

[museumtom]

Sorry lads I have no image od Partridge or Ransome.

[museumtom]

Ah Corisande my wealth is no longer a secret. Having said all that there are a lot on Irish newspapers that are not on FMP and a lot of those have not been digitised.

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, corisande said:

[A.L. Ransome certainly has a distinctive pair of ears]

The sort of officer the soldiers might have nicknamed ‘wing nut’ in their often irreverent way 

[FROGSMILE]

17 hours ago, cpnorfolk said:

This is one of my grandfather's [Major R.E. Partridge MC] Dorsetshire Regiment photos of which he did not donate a copy to The Keep Museum. Again, from my blog at repartridge.wordpress.com. His annotation on the back reads: "1st Battalion Dorset Regiment Football XI. Belfast 1913/14".

Middle row 3rd from left is Lt. Col. L.J. Bols, 3rd from right middle row is Capt. & Adjt. A.L. Ransome, I think.

Any ideas as to the identities of the rest of them?

It might perhaps interest you that standing in the top right hand corner is the sergeant major of battalion (later ‘RSM’).  Apart from his immaculate bearing, he can be identified because he wears the warrant officers version of 1902 service dress with its distinctive closed collar, in addition to collar badges, and an officers service dress bronze cap badge that his appointment traditionally wore.  He has medal ribbons from the Boer War and even the original type of shoulder cords for his jacket (so he very likely inherited it).  I imagine that he might have been commissioned as quarter-master during WW1.  Do you know his name?  I think his presence has been missed because he isn’t wearing his Sam Browne and is entirely belt less along with the rest of the other ranks. 

Edited 4 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[mrfrank]

From my 1912 ‘Sergeants’ photograph, he’s identifiable as Sgt-Major Pell. 

Mike

[PRC]

8 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

From my 1912 ‘Sergeants’ photograph, he’s identifiable as Sgt-Major Pell. 
 

Is this the right Sgt Major Pell -(I'm assuming the sergeants standing at either end are included in the names shown in the bottom line of names).

Cheers,
Peter

 

[mrfrank]

Yes, that’s him Peter and a clear match. Only Sgt Kelly - standing to the right as we look at the photo - is named to the bottom line on my Gale & Polden copy of the photo. 

Edited 4 January , 2022 by mrfrank

[mrfrank]

[PRC]

There are two service medal MiCs for 3587 J / John Pell.

The first, for his 1914 Star, shows him as a Sergeant-Major who first landed in France on the 16th August 1914. He is shown as discharged to a Commission on the 24th December 1915. The information as to his entitlement came from the Lt.Colonel commanding the 1st Battalion received 11th February 1920.

Image courtesy Ancestry.

He also received a Mention in Despatches in the London Gazette dated 22nd June 1915. Page 5997.

The second MiC is actually a SWB one, with a stamp detailing the roll number for his Victory Medal and British War Medal. This lists him as a Regimental Sergeant Major and discharged from the 1st Battalion on the 24th December 1915. He had originally enlisted on the 20th September 1892.

Image courtesy Ancestry.

Have to admit I've never come across an SWB awarded because a man has been commissioned. Although his name went forward to the War Office I don't have access to the Roll on Ancestry or FMP to see if it was actually successful.

I'm drawing a blank with finding a reference to him being commissioned in the London Gazette, and no surviving long papers showing up in the National Archive catalogue.

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 4 January , 2022 by PRC
Typo

[cpnorfolk]

2 hours ago, PRC said:

mrfrank:

From my 1912 ‘Sergeants’ photograph, he’s identifiable as Sgt-Major Pell.
Mike

Is this the right Sgt Major Pell -(I'm assuming the sergeants standing at either end are included in the names shown in the bottom line of names).

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you mrfrank for the id, and prc for the side by side photos.

I can add this photo to make it a trio.

My grandfather's annotation reads: "1st Battalion Dorset Regiment. Pioneers making wooden stakes for barbed wire entanglements at our transport lines, Neuve Eglise, 10th November 1914. Pioneer Sergt. in centre. R.S.M. Pell on right."

[cpnorfolk]

Sorry, the text of my last response got lost in the quote from mrfrank and prc. Here is a second attempt:

Thank you mrfrank for the id, and prc for the side by side photos.

I can add this photo to make it a trio.

My grandfather's annotation reads: "1st Battalion Dorset Regiment. Pioneers making wooden stakes for barbed wire entanglements at our transport lines, Neuve Eglise, 10th November 1914. Pioneer Sergt. in centre. R.S.M. Pell on right."

[FROGSMILE]

4 hours ago, mrfrank said:

From my 1912 ‘Sergeants’ photograph, he’s identifiable as Sgt-Major Pell. 

Mike

Thank you Mike.

2 hours ago, PRC said:

There are two service medal MiCs for 3587 J / John Pell.

The first, for his 1914 Star, shows him as a Sergeant-Major who first landed in France on the 16th August 1914. He is shown as discharged to a Commission on the 24th December 1915. The information as to his entitlement came from the Lt.Colonel commanding the 1st Battalion received 11th February 1920.

Image courtesy Ancestry.

He also received a Mention in Despatches in the London Gazette dated 22nd June 1915. Page 5997.

The second MiC is actually a SWB one, with a stamp detailing the roll number for his Victory Medal and British War Medal. This losts him as a Regimental Sergeant Major and discharged from the 1st Battalion on the 24th December 1915. He had originally enlisted on the 20th September 1892.

Image courtesy Ancestry.

Have to admit I've never come across an SWB awarded because a man has been commissioned. Although his name went forward to the War Office I don't have access to the Roll on Ancestry or FMP to see if it was actually successful.

I'm drawing a blank with finding a reference to him being commissioned in the London Gazette, and no surviving long papers showing up in the National Archive catalogue.

Cheers,
Peter

Yes that’s him Peter.

[FROGSMILE]

52 minutes ago, cpnorfolk said:

Sorry, the text of my last response got lost in the quote from mrfrank and prc. Here is a second attempt:

Thank you mrfrank for the id, and prc for the side by side photos.

I can add this photo to make it a trio.

My grandfather's annotation reads: "1st Battalion Dorset Regiment. Pioneers making wooden stakes for barbed wire entanglements at our transport lines, Neuve Eglise, 10th November 1914. Pioneer Sergt. in centre. R.S.M. Pell on right."

Peter was unable to find any mention of Mr Pell being commissioned, but I doubt he would have stayed with the battalion throughout the war.  Do you know what his eventual fate was?

NB.  He appears to be wearing the exact same jacket as in the photo with the football team.

Edited 4 January , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[charlie962]

56 minutes ago, cpnorfolk said:

R.S.M. Pell on right

Head and shoulders above the others. No messing with him.

[mrfrank]

Despite the MiC reference, I don’t think he was commissioned. According to my Quarterly Army List for Dec17 he is listed as Sgt-Major John Pell MC:

Date of birth: 20Jul1874.
Rank service: 14 years 153 days
Date of Appt: 20Feb1907

 

[charlie962]

15 minutes ago, mrfrank said:

I don’t think he was commissioned.

I see a clipping Aug 1917 where he is mentioned as RSM of the Oxford School of Military Aeronautics.

[PRC]

Looks liike FMP have surviving service records for John Pell as well as a 1915 Medical Admissions Register entry for J. Pell.

Cheers,
Peter

[charlie962]

Pell was commissioned RAF in May 1918 and has an officers service record on FMP

[charlie962]

Pell was indeed discharged unfit Dec 1915, taken on later by RFC 31/3/17 as SgtMaj. So SWB makes sense and he was indeed subsequently commissioned.

Edited 4 January , 2022 by charlie962

[corisande]

[PRC]

12 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Pell was commissioned RAF in May 1918 and has an officers service record on FMP

Which means his AIR76 series record can currently be downloaded for free from the National Archive. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D8214790

Career summary from there

And awards - in fact he would get another M.i.D for Home Service with the R.F.C. in 1917.

Both images courtesy The National Archive.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

Fascinating stuff, thank you to everyone whose excellent research contributed to answering my question.  It’s quite revealing how the attitudes towards fitness changed over the course of the war to become more intelligent, in that Pell could be discharged as unfit for war service in 1915, but be not only re engaged by the RFC in 1917, but subsequently commissioned in 1918.