Identity Disc German Casualty recorded in 15th Bn Royal Warwickshire Regiment War Diary

[BarbaraG]

 

Reading through War Diary 15th Bn Royal Warwickshire Regiment found and intrigued by this entry...

Any experts out there who might clarify please.

 

 

 

Reference: WO 95-1557-2_1 (94/95 of 123)

Edited 25 November , 2021 by BarbaraG

[JWK]

Heinrich Damm, born 12 feb 1898, Rengershausen Kreis Cassel.

reported missing on 29 June 1918

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/8451400

 

Reported "previously missing. Dead" on 30 April 1919

(A.N.) = Auslandsnachricht. "Message from abroad"

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/6140852

and

Edited 25 November , 2021 by JWK

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

Is the diary entry 13/14 . 6 . 18 ? Can't see it very clearly.

[JWK]

It could be an 8, which would tie in with the "missing" report.

 

*edit*  Looks to be a sloppy 8 :

Edited 25 November , 2021 by JWK

[knittinganddeath]

Interestingly, he can be found in the Red Cross records. His death was communicated to his family on 4 December 1918.

He was buried 1400 yards north north west of Merville on 4 September 1918, which seems like a very long time to have elapsed since the identity disk was taken from his body...

Card

Excerpt from A26041

Some of the other people on this list were noted to have identity disks in their possession. But perhaps he didn't have one on him because it was taken from him by the Warwickshire soldiers?

Edited 25 November , 2021 by knittinganddeath

[BarbaraG]

Thanks to all for responses. Could his death have been assumed - did he lose ID whilst laying trip wires?

Wondering if this entry was an exception rather than the rule. Assume E A Etheragen 2nd Lt (?) drew sketch - can’t quite make out signature.

Edited 26 November , 2021 by BarbaraG

[AOK4]

A lot of the guessing in the preceding posts can be discarded.

1. Heinrich Damm did NOT go missing on 29 June 1918. It was published on that day, which is a totally different matter and a mistaken continuously made when finding Germans in the Verlustlisten. Musketier Heinrich Damm was reported missing on 20 May 1918, along with several others from his company after an enemy break-in in the line on 20 May and an unsuccesfull counter attack on 21 May 1918.

2. His body was discovered in June by the R. Warwickshire patrol and the disc was taken for intelligence. However, the area was very much the front line at that point so the body could not be buried properly.

3. The Germans had to give up most of the conquered territory here in August 1918 (I believe Merville was recaptured by the British on 19 August 1918). Only after this date, the battlefield could be cleared. During the clearance, Damm's body was found, identified (not by the disc, as that was taken earlier, but by a notebook) and soon reburied (4 September 1918). This was then officially reported to the Red Cross and from there to the German authorities and family.

4. His death was officially noted by the commune of Kirchbauna (Hessen) on 5 October 1919 and the date of death was noted as 20 May 1918.

5. Quite remarkably, he has today no known grave. This shows how little respect and effort was done when concentrating the German bodies by the French and/or British authorities. Perhaps he was reburied to Merville Communal? Or to another German cemetery in the area (Sailly-sur-la-Lys?)? I see that only some Bavarian names on the page (reburied in the same area) are nowadays commemorated in Lens Sallaumins (which doesn't mean at all that they would be really buried there as it has to do with just randomly adding names to the Kameradengrab in the 1980s).

@egbert may be interested in this matter, his grandfather was KIA in the same area.

Jan

[BarbaraG]

2 hours ago, AOK4 said:

 His body was discovered in June by the R. Warwickshire patrol and the disc was taken for intelligence. However, the area was very much the front line at that point so the body could not be buried properly.

He would have been 20yrs old. 

Thank you Jan. 

[egbert]

Well where was the location exactly please - any map references? The Communal Cemetery Merville and CWGC Merville has only very few German graves . My Grandfather most likely is buried on CWGC Merville like the other German dead in chronological order. Next to my GF's grave are most likely dead from after May 1sr 1918. There is only one burial site next to my GF's with 7 unidentified German soldiers. Perhaps...............

 

[AOK4]

15 minutes ago, egbert said:

Well where was the location exactly please - any map references? The Communal Cemetery Merville and CWGC Merville has only very few German graves . My Grandfather most likely is buried on CWGC Merville like the other German dead in chronological order. Next to my GF's grave are most likely dead from after May 1sr 1918. There is only one burial site next to my GF's with 7 unidentified German soldiers. Perhaps...............

 

The Red Cross document says "1400 yards North North West of Merville". Unfortunately, no exact coordinates.

[egbert]

so roughly here

 

[AOK4]

Indeed Egbert, that is also where the unit in question was at that time (according to the Skizze in the regimental history).

Jan

[knittinganddeath]

52 minutes ago, egbert said:

There is only one burial site next to my GF's with 7 unidentified German soldiers.

In the Red Cross records, there are 7 soldiers (one of them being the aforementioned Heinrich Damm) who were buried 1400 yards NNW of Merville. Perhaps it's them?

Edited 26 November , 2021 by knittinganddeath

[egbert]

.....maybe.....

 

 

 

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

On 26/11/2021 at 06:25, AOK4 said:

Quite remarkably, he has today no known grave. This shows how little respect and effort was done when concentrating the German bodies by the French and/or British authorities.

A rather oversimplistic and offensive comment in my opinion.

[AOK4]

31 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

A rather oversimplistic and offensive comment in my opinion.

I know how German remains/graves were dealt with in many cases from many years of research... Did you know that complete cemeteries have "disappeared"? Try the Miraumont German cemetery on the Somme. NOT ONE SINGLE German soldier buried there originally has a known grave today.

It is how it is, I don't blame anyone today, but that's how things were done in those days. The truth must be said.

[BarbaraG]

1 hour ago, AOK4 said:

It is how it is, I don't blame anyone today, but that's how things were done in those days. The truth must be said.

I found the comment ‘dead Bosch’ particularly sad but would have known nothing about this young man without this note.

2 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

A rather oversimplistic and offensive comment in my opinion.

We are all entitled to our opinions but please don’t take offence where none is intended.

[david murdoch]

On 25/11/2021 at 19:49, knittinganddeath said:

Interestingly, he can be found in the Red Cross records. His death was communicated to his family on 4 December 1918.

Some of the other people on this list were noted to have identity disks in their possession. But perhaps he didn't have one on him because it was taken from him by the Warwickshire soldiers?

It's probable he was left without an identity disk as the whole identity disk was drawn -implying it was taken complete.  From the German point of view it was designed for the bottom part to be snapped off and handed in/recorded and the top part on the cord stayed with the body. The British troops would not likely be interested in such niceties as the disk was probably pulled or cut off and taken as intel to know what units they were facing. 

Edited 27 November , 2021 by david murdoch

[egbert]

My Grandfather is buried in Merville Communal Annex. I hold his full disk in my hands. His comrades had retrieved the full disk when kia and left the body provisionally buried on the farm gounds from where he was re-buried to Merville after the war.

The exact story is linked in my below signature link. Click-e-di-click

[Guest]

Mates,

Sometimes you surprise me with your comments.

How nice it is that we can after all these years think that those soldiers in WWI would be so nice to the dead of those fighting against them?

I known that after an action all we did was rat the bodies for what ever, and left them there.

What happen to them, who cares?

I know that someone else later buried them in a mass grave and never marked it, and so lost for all time.

50 years later I think differently, and wonder who were the men I help kill.

I know that there families will never find them, as I don't known if I could ever find the area we fought in now

The burial of soldiers is a modern thing, as soldiers were lucky to have grave in the past, most were dumped in mass graves and forgotten?

S.B

 

[BarbaraG]

I have just rewatched this from 2014...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p029sd7p

Page 44 of 47

https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/40572-this-is-the-secret-of-granddads-trunk/page/44/

 

[egbert]