Finding Grandpa's WW1 Medals

[lookingformedal]

Hi Everyone,

I have recently been researching my family history and am trying to find Grandpa's War Medals.

I have his Service Number (17441), DOB and Name, but apart from that I do not know too much.

I have no experience with this am not sure what the next step is?

Greatly appreciate any suggestions or help anyone has.

[jay dubaya]

And his name is?

[lookingformedal]

Sorry my copy/paste didn't work!

Robert Woods

Any ideas?

[Michelle Young]

The British Medals Forum has a wants section, and you can set an alert up on Ancestry I believe.

[PRC]

Hi @lookingformedal and welcome to the forum.

To have qualified for any service medals in the Great War, the service person had to have at the very least served overseas. When it came to issuing medals at the end of the war the clerks at the relevant records office created a Medal Rolls Index Card, (frequently referred to as a MiC) to keep track of the documentation and any associated correspondence.

These MiCs are held at the National Archive, and looking at their catalogue I an not seeing anyone with surname Woods or Wood with service number 17741.

So at this point I'm not seeing any medals to find.

Could be a mistake on my part but it will probably help us to help you if you tells a bit more about your grandfather. Where and when was he born, parents details, where and who did he marry - as little or as much as you can. Also what is the source of the service number 17741?

You may not be aware but 1) many of the other rank service records were destroyed when German bombs hit the London warehouse where they were being stored in WW2 2) the British Army did not issue unique service numbers that remained with a soldier throughout his career until 1920. So looking for a MiC in the National Archive catalogue for just number 17741 produces 62 results. So unfortunately it can require a bit of detective work to try and dig out something about a mans' service and even then results are not guaranteed. But if the brains trust of the Great War Forum (plus me) can't turn something up then I suspect no-one can

Cheers,
Peter

[lookingformedal]

Sorry I didn't realise people had the same Service Number! I did say I'm new here

Ok so I have his Index Card - I have attached it for you.

 

Robert was born on the 5th of June 1896 in Weston, Cheshire to parents Samuel Woods and Elizabeth Lawson.

 

 

[Michelle Young]

I might be stating the obvious but how do you know that this is your Grandfather ? Robert Woods is quite a common name. 

[ss002d6252]

There is a service record which matches those details - https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f007319473%2f00586&parentid=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f7319473%2f27%2f584

 

Craig

[RaySearching]

Pte 17441 3rd Bn R.W.F transferred to L.C 

discharge documents (service records) can be found on Ancestry

his discharge address is given as 22 Heath Road Weston near Runcorn Cheshire

which will give you a brief rundown of his military service 

 

[lookingformedal]

16 minutes ago, Michelle Young said:

I might be stating the obvious but how do you know that this is your Grandfather ? Robert Woods is quite a common name. 

Because the index card was included with his medical reports, which matches his DOB and also mentions two injuries he sadly got which my father's remembers.

[ss002d6252]

This is the pension card connected to that man.

Discharged in April 1919 and given a minimum pension of 5s 6d per week.

https://www.fold3.com/image/704736187?terms=130676

Craig

[lookingformedal]

1 minute ago, RaySearching said:

Pte 17441 3rd Bn R.W.F transferred to L.C 

discharge documents (service records) can be found on Ancestry

his discharge address is given as 22 Heath Road Weston near Runcorn Cheshire

which will give you a brief rundown of his military service 

 

Thank you for this Ray

Any idea how to use this to try and find his original medals?

[RaySearching]

His medals could be anywhere, lost, pawned, or sold for the silver content after the war,  I suggest you 

follow Michelle Young's advice  as follows

1 hour ago, Michelle Young said:

The British Medals Forum has a wants section, and you can set an alert up on Ancestry I believe.

 

Ray

[lookingformedal]

10 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Pte 17441 3rd Bn R.W.F transferred to L.C 

discharge documents (service records) can be found on Ancestry

his discharge address is given as 22 Heath Road Weston near Runcorn Cheshire

which will give you a brief rundown of his military service 

 

Are you sure he was in the 3rd Battalion? I was always told it was the 2nd Battalion?

[Michelle Young]

46 minutes ago, lookingformedal said:

Because the index card was included with his medical reports, which matches his DOB and also mentions two injuries he sadly got which my father's remembers.

Excellent, we do get people who  find  a card with a family name and assume it’s their ancestor. Good luck with your search. 

[RaySearching]

7 minutes ago, lookingformedal said:

Are you sure he was in the 3rd Battalion? I was always told it was the 2nd Battalion?

3rd Bn according to his discharge documents although I have not looked at the medal rolls to confirm the Bn

 

 

[RaySearching]

Looks like Robert was transferred between battalions

He was most likely placed in a different bn after recovering from being wounded

first served with the 1st Bn as I read it from the medal roll

 

Serving with the 3rd Battalion when discharged

Edited 10 November , 2021 by RaySearching

[lookingformedal]

21 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Looks like Robert was transferred between battalions

He was most likely placed in a different bn after recovering from being wounded

first served with the 1st Bn as I read it from the medal roll

 

Serving with the 3rd Battalion when discharged

Does this change which medals etc he would have been awarded?

[RaySearching]

5 minutes ago, lookingformedal said:

Does this change which medals etc he would have been awarded?

No

His medal entilement would be impressed with the first unit he served with in France

 

Ray

[lookingformedal]

23 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

No

His medal entilement would be impressed with the first unit he served with in France

 

Ray

Great thank you for clarifying this.

And is there anywhere I can find the medals he would have been originally awarded?

Also any idea where to find when he was moved battalions?

[RaySearching]

Questions asked

And is there anywhere I can find the medals he would have been originally awarded?

I think the above question has already been answered , they may be in a collection some where or they may have been destroyed, lost ect you will have to search for them

 

Also any idea where to find when he was moved battalions?

His transfer dates can be found on his service records which can be found on Ancestry and Find My Past

if not a subscriber the may be able to be viewed at your local Library 

 

Ray

Edited 10 November , 2021 by RaySearching

[PRC]

3 hours ago, lookingformedal said:

Any idea how to use this to try and find his original medals?

Usual suggestions

1. (This one has been mentioned a couple of times already):  Join the British Medals Forum and post in the looking for medals section: https://britishmedalforum.com/ucp.php?mode=login
2. Set up a search on e-Bay with the relevant terms like names, service numbers and units, so if anyone tries to sell then through there you will get notification.
3. Add a comment on Ancestry against documents like his MiC, Medal Roll and Service Records. If you don't have a paid for subscription even the most basic free account includes access to the Medal Index Cards. I would suggest you ask them to contact you via Ancestry rather than include an e-mail address or phone number as that sort of thing gets harvested by spammers.

Plus of course the Great War Forum is regularly trawled by Google and the other search engines so by now any one putting in a search like "Robert Woods 17441" will probably get results that include this page and so they will see your interest.

Unfortunately after that it is a question of patience, with no guarantee any of the medals still exist.

As for seeing his records, if you don't have a subscription to Ancestry or FindMypast, for the next few days both sites are offering free access to a limited number of Great War era records - you just need to register for an account. If you have had an account in the past then it and the password should still be valid. Note this is different to the free trials they offer where you have to give payment details.

Hope that helps,
Peter

[Medaler]

2 hours ago, RaySearching said:

Questions asked

And is there anywhere I can find the medals he would have been originally awarded?

I think the above question has already been answered , they may be in a collection some where or they may have been destroyed, lost ect you will have to search for them

 

 

They could also still be in the family, having been passed down a different branch when he died. I think I would start my enquiries there. Even if they no longer have them, they may be able to shed light on where they went.

To be clear on his entitlement, his full group would have been 3 medals in what collectors refer to as a "14-15 Trio". None of the three medals will have his battalion number on them. The 3rd Battalion reference is a bit of a red herring anyway, as they were a reserve and training unit which never left the UK. He would not, therefore, have qualified for any medals by being with them. It looks like they were the unit that trained him, and that his first "qualifying" service was with 1st battalion as part of a reinforcement draft that was sent to join them.

Regards,

Mike

Edited 11 November , 2021 by Medaler

[RaySearching]

as Mikes post above 

just to clarify Robert entered the theatre of war in France with the 1st Bn RWF on the 25 May 15

wounded in action and evacuated home    (dates you will find on his service records)

  he was discharged from service whilst serving with the 3rd Bn RWF

whilst members of the forum could  i am sure give you the full run-down of his military service

 encouragement to try and do the research yourself is always recommended,  you will find this is more satisfying

if there is anything you don't understand on his service  documents you can always return with the query

I am sure assistance will be forthcoming

You should be able to download the 1st Bn RWF war diary for 1915 from the national archives  (for free at present) you will have to register first) which will give you some idea 

of the actions Robert was involved in leading up to, when wounded

 

 

Ray

 

 

 

 

[chaz]

does anyone in the family remember Robert?

apart from the obvious , searching ebay, google search, BMF etc some men were not impressed with their medals and were sent back or not received, as no note on his MIC rules this out. some men didnt talk about the war and therefore gave away, sold , lost or hid their medals along with their feelings .

The Saleroom deals with many auction houses and set up a search there can help. 

Obviously if a collector has them, there may be financial dealings involved, on the other hand, some will return to family. Just to say, that if he had something special, eg MC, MM Vc etc a collector might not be so keen to return. but be warned, if some unscrupulous person has them and knows you want them the price may inflate (happened to me more than once).

There is also another consideration, that of erasure, not the band, but some will erase the details and either sell off as blank space fillers or re name to make more sellable.

never give up, last year I obtained three sets from my great uncles, through The Saleroom and not heard of since the seventies.