Driver 562 J. Olson

[WhiteStarLine]

4 hours ago, tankengine888 said:

Returned Servicemen League

Quick correction - Returned Services League, or to be pedantic ...  

[tankengine888]

39 minutes ago, WhiteStarLine said:

Quick correction - Returned Services League, or to be pedantic ...  

sounds about right

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, tankengine888 said:

Quick response since limited time

RSL is Returned Servicemen League

Thank you, I should have realised that.  I have heard of it before.  The Australian equivalent of the [eventually Royal] British Legion.

NB.  I suppose it’s not impossible that he was British Army for a period pre emigration, in which case the most likely medal might be connected with India.  It’s unfortunate that the individual medal ribbons are not more discernible.  If you have the ability to scan the original photo in high resolution and post a close up there are several forum members who are very good at the ID of medal ribbons.

[Guest]

Mate,

Sorry missed your post.

What I have on him;

OLSON    James    562    Pte    11 LHR    C Sqn att DSqn/9 LHR 10-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to MG Sect 3-16 to hosp (dental) 4-8-16 rtn 8-16 to 3 or 4 Sect - 4 LH MGS (1 officer & 27 OR's from MGSect/11 LHR) 27-2-17 to Dvr 3-17 WIA 25-3-17 foot injury (septic leg) kicked by horse at Romani rtn 4-17 to hosp (synovitis R/knee) at Marakeb 8-17 rtn 8-17 revert to Pte 9-17 (B) to hosp (dysentry) 11-17 to MG Trg Sqn 12-17 rtn 3-18 to L/Cpl 10-18 to hosp (malaria) 10-18 rtn 11-18 AKA Einar James Olson    N/R    Labourer   age  22    Brisbane Qld    9-12-14    RTA 24-7-19    NOK Glasgow Scotland
 

The regt was broken up on Gallipoli with his Sqn going to the 9 LHR, they were reformed in Egpyt in Feb 1916

He was then posted to the MG Sect (Vickers) in March 1916 and continued with them untill the all the MG sections werte combined to form the Bde MG Sqns in Feb 1917.

He was sen tto either the 3rd or 4th Sections 4 LH MGS (these were formed from the 11 LHR) 1st and 2nd Sect from the 4 LHR and 5th and 6th from the 12 LHR.

Yes he was at Beersheba 

He is not shown as qualifying as a MG Gunner as many were but may have gained that award at some time as all crews were cross trained in all jobs, in case of losses.

I can find no record of him going home (Scotland) as many former Brits did on UK leave in 1919 so where the photo was taken is unknown

I can see no mention of the Camel Corps.

But the 4th LH Bde Regts were taken on strenght of the Camel Corps in early 1917 and renamed the 1st to 3rd Camel Regts (the 1st being from the 4th LHR and 2nd from the 11 LHR) 

But that was on paper, as there were never enough camels to mount the Bde, so revert back to being called LH.

Cheers

 

S.B

 

 

[tankengine888]

30 minutes ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

Sorry missed your post.

What I have on him;

OLSON    James    562    Pte    11 LHR    C Sqn att DSqn/9 LHR 10-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to MG Sect 3-16 to hosp (dental) 4-8-16 rtn 8-16 to 3 or 4 Sect - 4 LH MGS (1 officer & 27 OR's from MGSect/11 LHR) 27-2-17 to Dvr 3-17 WIA 25-3-17 foot injury (septic leg) kicked by horse at Romani rtn 4-17 to hosp (synovitis R/knee) at Marakeb 8-17 rtn 8-17 revert to Pte 9-17 (B) to hosp (dysentry) 11-17 to MG Trg Sqn 12-17 rtn 3-18 to L/Cpl 10-18 to hosp (malaria) 10-18 rtn 11-18 AKA Einar James Olson    N/R    Labourer   age  22    Brisbane Qld    9-12-14    RTA 24-7-19    NOK Glasgow Scotland
 

The regt was broken up on Gallipoli with his Sqn going to the 9 LHR, they were reformed in Egpyt in Feb 1916

He was then posted to the MG Sect (Vickers) in March 1916 and continued with them untill the all the MG sections werte combined to form the Bde MG Sqns in Feb 1917.

He was sen tto either the 3rd or 4th Sections 4 LH MGS (these were formed from the 11 LHR) 1st and 2nd Sect from the 4 LHR and 5th and 6th from the 12 LHR.

Yes he was at Beersheba 

He is not shown as qualifying as a MG Gunner as many were but may have gained that award at some time as all crews were cross trained in all jobs, in case of losses.

I can find no record of him going home (Scotland) as many former Brits did on UK leave in 1919 so where the photo was taken is unknown

I can see no mention of the Camel Corps.

But the 4th LH Bde Regts were taken on strenght of the Camel Corps in early 1917 and renamed the 1st to 3rd Camel Regts (the 1st being from the 4th LHR and 2nd from the 11 LHR) 

But that was on paper, as there were never enough camels to mount the Bde, so revert back to being called LH.

Cheers

 

S.B

 

 

Cheers for all this. and the Beersheba part.
As I understand, he must be wearing the trio, meaning the photo was taken no later than July 1919 (maybe even August). On the bottom left or right it has a mention of S.A.. maybe where it developed. I remember hearing, the iconic Beersheba Charge photo was taken by a 4th Light Horse Machine Gun Squadron man.. I wonder if my Great Great Grandfather was in the charge (most unlikely I'd take it). Where did you find the information about the sections
thats all, cheers for all this!

[WhiteStarLine]

1 hour ago, stevebecker said:

I can see no mention of the Camel Corps.

[Guest]

Mate,

Be carefull here as the 4 LH MGS did not charge at Beersheba.

The Sqn did deploy to engage targets (fire support) and followed the Regts after the charge.

The MGS job was to provide MG support to the Regts of the Bde, and as such, MG sections would be attached to Regts as needed.

It looks like the 4 MGS had six sections when formed but later to eight Sections.

The photo often shown in books was not taken at Beersheba, but later in the reenactment of the charge for the media

There is no history for the MGS,  but here is for the 11 LHR by Ernest Hammond an ex soldier from the Regt written in 1942.

A number of the histories are being rewritten, so there many be others?

Yes the photo was taken after the war as he shows the L/Cpl which he gained in Oct 1918

S.B

[tankengine888]

8 minutes ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

Be carefull here as the 4 LH MGS did not charge at Beersheba.

The Sqn did deploy to engage targets (fire support) and followed the Regts after the charge.

The MGS job was to provide MG support to the Regts of the Bde, and as such, MG sections would be attached to Regts as needed.

It looks like the 4 MGS had six sections when formed but later to eight Sections.

The photo often shown in books was not taken at Beersheba, but later in the reenactment of the charge for the media

There is no history for the MGS,  but here is for the 11 LHR by Ernest Hammond an ex soldier from the Regt written in 1942.

A number of the histories are being rewritten, so there many be others?

Yes the photo was taken after the war as he shows the L/Cpl which he gained in Oct 1918

S.B

Cheers for that, 

So they were there to consolidate a position after an attack. I wonder what else he did during the war, since he was at the final few months at Gallipoli, uneventful but still.

Photo is taken in July 1919+ since he's wearing maybe 4 medals, maybe the trio and one. That would mean he's wearing the Victory medal or the war medal, as I can't remember which but one was issued in July 1919.. don't quote me on that.

Cheers for the reference on that book!

Thank you!

[Guest]

Mate,

Yes the Regts of the 4 LH Bde ( 11 LHR 12 LHR and 13 LHR) arrived late to Gallipoli and the 11 and 12 LHR were broken up. These were used to reinforce the LH Regt already on Anzac.

My old Regt 12/16 HRL was the old 12 LHR, it was broken up to Regts of the 2nd LH Bde while the 11 LHR went to other Qld LHR ASqn to 2 LHR B Sqn to 5 LHR and CSqn to 9 LHR.

While the 9 LHR was not a Qld Regt , C Sqn had been formed in South Australia, so thats why 9 LHR, a Sth Aust formed unit.

S.B

[tankengine888]

4 minutes ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

Yes the Regts of the 4 LH Bde ( 11 LHR 12 LHR and 13 LHR) arrived late to Gallipoli and the 11 and 12 LHR were broken up. These were used to reinforce the LH Regt already on Anzac.

My old Regt 12/16 HRL was the old 12 LHR, it was broken up to Regts of the 2nd LH Bde while the 11 LHR went to other Qld LHR ASqn to 2 LHR B Sqn to 5 LHR and CSqn to 9 LHR.

While the 9 LHR was not a Qld Regt , C Sqn had been formed in South Australia, so thats why 9 LHR, a Sth Aust formed unit.

S.B

Ah makes sense now. Cheers. 

Side note, 

WhiteStarLine said something about he was in the "camel regiment" I think this is due to the 11th turning in the 1st Camel.. would you agree?

A long time assumption of mine is that a Light Horse Squadron is like a Company.. can you clear this up?

Cheers for that information, you do not know how fascinating it is to me. Pity theres only 3 wartime photos of him (2 from me, 1 from Queensland pictorial)

Cheers!

[Guest]

Mate,

Sorry the 11 LHR was renamed the 2nd Camel Regt, again this was in name only, as it could not be changed due to the lack of camels.

the 4 LHR was the 1st Camel Regt and the 3rd Camel Regt was the 12 LHR.

Although redesignated it never happened only on paper.

I also have seen men of the 11 LHR shown as 1st Camel Regt like

PARKER    Richard Austin    330    Pte    11 LHR    B Sqn att DSqn/05 LHR 8-15 evac to (1 AGH) hosp (rheum) 10-15 att OS Base 12-15 (G) rtn 1-16 to hosp (rheum & appendix) 1-16 to 3 LHTR 3-16 to 3 Double Sqn 7-16 to hosp (neurasthenia) 8-16 to hosp UK 8-16 to AIF depot (1 com) UK 10-16 rtn to 3 LHTR 1-17 to 4 LHTR 3-17 rtn 11 LHR 5-17 to hosp (VD) 7-18 rtn 9-18  shown as 1 Camel Regt 11-16
 

But if you look closer at what White Star gave it clearly shows the 4 LHR for the 1st Camel Regt.

The only Camel Regt formed at that time was the 4th Camel Regt, it was formed from the Double Sqns, each of which were from the extra men from the LH Bdes - 1st double Sqn (1 LH Bde) 2nd double Sqn (2nd LH Bde) and 3rd Double Sqn (3rd and 4th LH Bdes) although the 4 LH Bde had not been reformed at that time the Regts (11 & 12 LHR) were still in Egypt the 13 LHR had gone to France.

Cheers

S.B

 

Edited 8 November , 2021 by stevebecker

[tankengine888]

2 hours ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

Sorry the 11 LHR was renamed the 2nd Camel Regt, again this was in name only, as it could not be changed due to the lack of camels.

the 4 LHR was the 1st Camel Regt and the 3rd Camel Regt was the 12 LHR.

Although redesignated it never happened only on paper.

I also have seen men of the 11 LHR shown as 1st Camel Regt like

PARKER    Richard Austin    330    Pte    11 LHR    B Sqn att DSqn/05 LHR 8-15 evac to (1 AGH) hosp (rheum) 10-15 att OS Base 12-15 (G) rtn 1-16 to hosp (rheum & appendix) 1-16 to 3 LHTR 3-16 to 3 Double Sqn 7-16 to hosp (neurasthenia) 8-16 to hosp UK 8-16 to AIF depot (1 com) UK 10-16 rtn to 3 LHTR 1-17 to 4 LHTR 3-17 rtn 11 LHR 5-17 to hosp (VD) 7-18 rtn 9-18  shown as 1 Camel Regt 11-16
 

But if you look closer at what White Star gave it clearly shows the 4 LHR for the 1st Camel Regt.

The only Camel Regt formed at that time was the 4th Camel Regt, it was formed from the Double Sqns, each of which were from the extra men from the LH Bdes - 1st double Sqn (1 LH Bde) 2nd double Sqn (2nd LH Bde) and 3rd Double Sqn (3rd and 4th LH Bdes) although the 4 LH Bde had not been reformed at that time the Regts (11 & 12 LHR) were still in Egypt the 13 LHR had gone to France.

Cheers

S.B

 

So it only “marched on paper”, paper army so to speak? Sounds about right.

[Guest]

Mate,

Yes it came about because of the good work of the Camel Companies already formed and working in Egypt and Sinai.

It was found Cavalrymen worked better as Cameliers, rather then Infantrymen.

So as the disbanded 4 LH Bde was doing little, the two Regts and the attached 4 LHR were grouped to form three new Camel Regts.

But as I said, they could not find the extra camels to mount them, so reverted back to LH, and they only formed one Regt (4th Camel Regt) but again they disbanded this and formed three Camel Companies out of it in Feb 1917.

S.B

[tankengine888]

Just now, stevebecker said:

Mate,

Yes it came about because of the good work of the Camel Companies already formed and working in Egypt and Sinai.

It was found Cavalrymen worked better as Cameliers, rather then Infantrymen.

So as the disbanded 4 LH Bde was doing little, the two Regts and the attached 4 LHR were grouped to form three new Camel Regts.

But as I said, they could not find the extra camels to mount them, so reverted back to LH, and they only formed one Regt (4th Camel Regt) but again they disbanded this and formed three Camel Companies out of it in Feb 1917.

S.B

Makes a helluva lotta sense! I heard his record was “colourful”… a court martial in Jan ‘18 and paper camels and the LH seems like it.

this February 1917 stuff, was this a sort of “reformat” for the Desert part of the AIF? since he transferred upon the forming of 4th Light Horse Brigade MGS.

On his 1919 photo, shows him with an MG patch, does this mean he fired it or was the no.2 (assistant to MG) or just apart of the MG section/squadron? Pity I never met the man… 40 years apart exactly (ignoring 1 month and 6 day difference), although he only said something about “left to die”.. I looked into this, but no luck so yeah, might’ve had a brother but I wouldn’t know. Cheers for all this in the end.

[Guest]

Mate,

My understanding is only those who qualified as MG gunners could wear this badge.

These mainly the No 1 and No 2 on the guns (firer and loader) but all the crew were trained even the Ammo carriers and Drivers who held the Horses when the MG's were dismounted and deployed.

There was two MGs per MG Section and deployed near each other, and six to eight MG Sections per MG Sqn

As other said there were two main types used in Egypt/Palestine.

The MG Sections/Sqn's were formed of Vickers/Maxim MGs, 

There tried to introduce the Lewis guns into the LH during 1916, but were found to be a problem keeping them clean, so the Hotchkiss replaced them in LH Troops.

But the heavy MGs still were used in MG Sqns, no Hotchkiss were used by them only Vickers.

Cheers

S.B

PS,

Sorry I should have mentioned that the Badge was given after qualifing on an MG course at Zeitoun during the war.

But due to time and space the units ran there own courses to qualify men within the units, while these were not shown as being British run there quals became a problem, but as Aussies we didn't seam to worry to much what the British thought.

Still we continued to send men to Zeitoun, to gain the tick by the Poms, but we also opened up courses in Sinai and Palestine to save time and travel

As I said your relation does no show any qualifitions as a MG Gunner, so he must have gained that badge in some other way I mentioned.

S.B

Edited 9 November , 2021 by stevebecker

[tankengine888]

13 minutes ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

My understanding is only those who qualified as MG gunners could wear this badge.

These mainly the No 1 and No 2 on the guns (firer and loader) but all the crew were trained even the Ammo carriers and Drivers who held the Horses when the MG's were dismounted and deployed.

There was two MGs per MG Section and deployed near each other, and six to eight MG Sections per MG Sqn

As other said there were two main types used in Egypt/Palestine.

The MG Sections/Sqn's were formed of Vickers/Maxim MGs, 

There tried to introduce the Lewis guns into the LH during 1916, but were found to be a problem keeping them clean, so the Hotchkiss replaced them in LH Troops.

But the heavy MGs still were used in MG Sqns, no Hotchkiss were used by them only Vickers.

Cheers

S.B

PS,

Sorry I should have mentioned that the Badge was given after qualifing on an MG course at Zeitoun during the war.

But due to time and space the units ran there own courses to qualify men within the units, while these were not shown as being British run there quals became a problem, but as Aussies we didn't seam to worry to much what the British thought.

Still we continued to send men to Zeitoun, to gain the tick by the Poms, but we also opened up courses in Sinai and Palestine to save time and travel

As I said your relation does no show any qualifitions as a MG Gunner, so he must have gained that badge in some other way I mentioned.

S.B

His rank was Trooper and Driver, what do they each do with the MGS? Real pity though, thought might be quite interesting if he was an actual machine gunner.

[Guest]

Mate,

See the Long Long Trail site

The MGC (Cavalry) Squadron consisted of 8 officers and 203 other ranks, equipped with 299 horses, 18 limbers, 1 GS wagon and 1 water cart. These were formed up into six two-gun sections each of a Subaltern, 33 men and 46 horses. The Squadron was commanded by a Captain or Major.

Drivers are those who control the Limbers and Wagons within the Sqn.

Trooper is the Pte rank within the Cavalry including to MGS

These are two of his mates who followed him from C sqn;

SEMMENS    Albert Arthur    580    Pte    11 LHR    C Sqn att DSqn/9 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to MG sect 3-16 to 3 or 4 Sect - 4 LH MGS 2-17 to L/Cpl 3-17 to T/Cpl (from Green) 5-17 to Cpl 7-17 (B) to (unknown course)  Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 12-17 rtn 1-18 to hosp (conjuctivitis) 4-18 rtn 4-18 to T/Sgt (from Kolosque) 6-18 to (unknown course)  Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun rtn 8-18 revert to Cpl 8-18 to T/Sgt (from Keary) 8-18 to Sgt (from wilson) 1-19 to UK leave 5-19 to NME UK confectionary 10-19 married Annie Burrows at Inverness Scotland 21-8-19 AKA served as Herbert Willie Semmens born 5-12-96 later WWII Wo1 2/4 Base Wkshop AEME (S116137)

WILMSHURST    Victor Stanley    592    Pte    11 LHR    C Sqn att DSqn/9 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to MG sect 3-16 to Dvr (from angus) 8-16 to 4 LH MGS 2-17 to hosp (debility) 9-17 rtn 9-17 to hosp (dysentry) 1-18 rtn 2-18 WIA 1-5-18 head shot possibly during Turkish attack and fighting withdrawal from Damieh Bridge to Black Hill at Es Salt to staff DMC rest camp 6-18 rtn 4 LH MGS 3-19 to ABD 6-19 

You had me checking out the other members of the 11 LHR who went to the 4 LH MGS and found only one man to shown a MG Qual recorded?

NEWMAN    Stanley Roy    1965    Pte    11 LHR    12R to isol camp 9-16 to 3 LHTR 10-16 qual 1st class Lewis MG gunner at Zeitoun 2-17 tos 4 LH MGS 2-17 to hosp (septic sores hands) 12-17 rtn 2-18 WIA 25-9-18 R/shoulder shot reported 2 killed and 4 wounded at Semakh rtn 11-18 FGCM 23-7-19 civil crime stealing gold watch sentenced 3 months HL reduced to FP 2 RTA as prisoner disch 4-9-19 SNLR (A Troop BSqn/2 LH CMF 2 years)

But that was a Lewis MG not vickers?

His officer was

BRYANT    George Harry        2/Lt    11 LHR    C Sqn shown C Sqn 4 Troop (in Army lists dated 7-15) att DSqn/9 LHR 8-15 shown to Bde Bombing officer 11-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to MG officer MG Sect (from Kessels) 7-16 att school of Instruction (MG instructor course) Zeitoun 11-16 rtn 12-16 to 4 LH MGS 2-17 prom Capt 5-17 to 2ic SHQ/1 LH MGS 6-17 att school of Instruction (cavalry course) Zeitoun 10-17 rtn 11-17 to MG Trg Unit 12-17 RTA 4 weeks leave reemb 4 GSR to CTD 7-18 tos CO SHQ/3 LH MGS 8-18 shown T/OC F Troop 9-18 recom MC awarded MID - for his work between Sept to Oct 1918 Ex Sgt C Sqn to prom 2/Lt 24-3-15 DNE (British 9th (Queen's Royal) Lancers 8 years) died 3-2-44 in house fire

S.B

Edited 9 November , 2021 by stevebecker

[tankengine888]

36 minutes ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

See the Long Long Trail site

The MGC (Cavalry) Squadron consisted of 8 officers and 203 other ranks, equipped with 299 horses, 18 limbers, 1 GS wagon and 1 water cart. These were formed up into six two-gun sections each of a Subaltern, 33 men and 46 horses. The Squadron was commanded by a Captain or Major.

Drivers are those who control the Limbers and Wagons within the Sqn.

Trooper is the Pte rank within the Cavalry including to MGS

These are two of his mates who followed him from C sqn;

SEMMENS    Albert Arthur    580    Pte    11 LHR    C Sqn att DSqn/9 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to MG sect 3-16 to 3 or 4 Sect - 4 LH MGS 2-17 to L/Cpl 3-17 to T/Cpl (from Green) 5-17 to Cpl 7-17 (B) to (unknown course)  Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 12-17 rtn 1-18 to hosp (conjuctivitis) 4-18 rtn 4-18 to T/Sgt (from Kolosque) 6-18 to (unknown course)  Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun rtn 8-18 revert to Cpl 8-18 to T/Sgt (from Keary) 8-18 to Sgt (from wilson) 1-19 to UK leave 5-19 to NME UK confectionary 10-19 married Annie Burrows at Inverness Scotland 21-8-19 AKA served as Herbert Willie Semmens born 5-12-96 later WWII Wo1 2/4 Base Wkshop AEME (S116137)

WILMSHURST    Victor Stanley    592    Pte    11 LHR    C Sqn att DSqn/9 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to MG sect 3-16 to Dvr (from angus) 8-16 to 4 LH MGS 2-17 to hosp (debility) 9-17 rtn 9-17 to hosp (dysentry) 1-18 rtn 2-18 WIA 1-5-18 head shot possibly during Turkish attack and fighting withdrawal from Damieh Bridge to Black Hill at Es Salt to staff DMC rest camp 6-18 rtn 4 LH MGS 3-19 to ABD 6-19 

You had me checking out the other members of the 11 LHR who went to the 4 LH MGS and found only one man to shown a MG Qual recorded?

NEWMAN    Stanley Roy    1965    Pte    11 LHR    12R to isol camp 9-16 to 3 LHTR 10-16 qual 1st class Lewis MG gunner at Zeitoun 2-17 tos 4 LH MGS 2-17 to hosp (septic sores hands) 12-17 rtn 2-18 WIA 25-9-18 R/shoulder shot reported 2 killed and 4 wounded at Semakh rtn 11-18 FGCM 23-7-19 civil crime stealing gold watch sentenced 3 months HL reduced to FP 2 RTA as prisoner disch 4-9-19 SNLR (A Troop BSqn/2 LH CMF 2 years)

But that was a Lewis MG not vickers?

His officer was

BRYANT    George Harry        2/Lt    11 LHR    C Sqn shown C Sqn 4 Troop (in Army lists dated 7-15) att DSqn/9 LHR 8-15 shown to Bde Bombing officer 11-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to MG officer MG Sect (from Kessels) 7-16 att school of Instruction (MG instructor course) Zeitoun 11-16 rtn 12-16 to 4 LH MGS 2-17 prom Capt 5-17 to 2ic SHQ/1 LH MGS 6-17 att school of Instruction (cavalry course) Zeitoun 10-17 rtn 11-17 to MG Trg Unit 12-17 RTA 4 weeks leave reemb 4 GSR to CTD 7-18 tos CO SHQ/3 LH MGS 8-18 shown T/OC F Troop 9-18 recom MC awarded MID - for his work between Sept to Oct 1918 Ex Sgt C Sqn to prom 2/Lt 24-3-15 DNE (British 9th (Queen's Royal) Lancers 8 years) died 3-2-44 in house fire

S.B

Cheers for this helluva lotta information! What are limbers? I heard of Captain Bryant, saw his account on VWMA. Olson went all over the place, driver, LCPL, trooper, private, so I was wondering if they had any meaning other than private, so cheers on the driver part. One man actually qualified? That's quite a lark! 

Cheers!

Oops forgot

Yeah, I thought they used Vickers not Lewis.. maybe he tried the Lewis instead, I wouldn't know.

Thanks for the people who transferred over from 11th to 4th LHMGS

Edited 9 November , 2021 by tankengine888

[Guest]

Mate,

I am sure others will know more, but Limbers carried the ammo.

While I know about the Artillery Limber, what the MGS limbers looked like, or how they carried the ammo I am unsure?

As to there jobs in the MGS, there were a number of jobs where they gained quals, Driver was one of these, that means he could drive a horse drawn type of wagon 

A Pte/Trooper soldier could gain quals for more pay and badges.

He would have worn a drivers badge to show he was a driver.

A Gunner was a qual and could gain more pay and badge for it.

A L/Cpl (Lance Corporal) was the lower grade of the rank structure and would have one stripe, his pay would go up because of it.

Yes while he qual as a Lewis MG gunner that was before he transfered over to the MGS, where he could not use that qual?

Possibly he did well in his course so they cross him over to the Big guns.

 

I was checking to see what quals these men gained and how they recorded it. I found they don'tt appear to record these quals with the Sqn, strange but it happens. so that is possibly why he does not show gaining that MG Badge.

Cheers

S.B

[tankengine888]

5 minutes ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

I am sure others will know more, but Limbers carried the ammo.

While I know about the Artillery Limber, what the MGS limbers looked like, or how they carried the ammo I am unsure?

As to there jobs in the MGS, there were a number of jobs where they gained quals, Driver was one of these, that means he could drive a horse drawn type of wagon 

A Pte/Trooper soldier could gain quals for more pay and badges.

He would have worn a drivers badge to show he was a driver.

A Gunner was a qual and could gain more pay and badge for it.

A L/Cpl (Lance Corporal) was the lower grade of the rank structure and would have one stripe, his pay would go up because of it.

Yes while he qual as a Lewis MG gunner that was before he transfered over to the MGS, where he could not use that qual?

Possibly he did well in his course so they cross him over to the Big guns.

 

I was checking to see what quals these men gained and how they recorded it. I found they don'tt appear to record these quals with the Sqn, strange but it happens. so that is possibly why he does not show gaining that MG Badge.

Cheers

S.B

Cheers for the info,

pity they didn’t record them. Helpful none the less.

cheers.

[FROGSMILE]

24 minutes ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

I am sure others will know more, but Limbers carried the ammo.

While I know about the Artillery Limber, what the MGS limbers looked like, or how they carried the ammo I am unsure?

As to there jobs in the MGS, there were a number of jobs where they gained quals, Driver was one of these, that means he could drive a horse drawn type of wagon 

A Pte/Trooper soldier could gain quals for more pay and badges.

He would have worn a drivers badge to show he was a driver.

A Gunner was a qual and could gain more pay and badge for it.

A L/Cpl (Lance Corporal) was the lower grade of the rank structure and would have one stripe, his pay would go up because of it.

Yes while he qual as a Lewis MG gunner that was before he transfered over to the MGS, where he could not use that qual?

Possibly he did well in his course so they cross him over to the Big guns.

 

I was checking to see what quals these men gained and how they recorded it. I found they don'tt appear to record these quals with the Sqn, strange but it happens. so that is possibly why he does not show gaining that MG Badge.

Cheers

S.B

Steve there’s a good thread that refers in some detail to the Vickers Machine Gun Limbers here: https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/201884-two-mule-gun-carriage-mgc/

Also see: https://vickersmg.blog/in-use/transport/wagons-limbered-g-s/

 

Edited 9 November , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

25 minutes ago, tankengine888 said:

Cheers for the info,

pity they didn’t record them. Helpful none the less.

cheers.

It’s pretty academic really in the sense that if he’s wearing the badge then it’s fairly certain that he earned it.  His sergeant wouldn’t have stood for men wearing badges that they hadn’t earned.  There wasn’t much tolerance of ‘Walter Mitty’ types.

[tankengine888]

2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

It’s pretty academic really in the sense that if he’s wearing the badge then it’s fairly certain that he earned it.  His sergeant wouldn’t have stood for men wearing badges that they hadn’t earned.  There wasn’t much tolerance of ‘Walter Mitty’ types.

Then again, we are talking about the AIF… Larrakism and that.. also ignoring the 2 shot in the Boer War, used as scapegoats. My point is that his sergeant might have been okay with it.. but we’ll never know.

[Guest]

Mate,

Just to give you some more men from another Sqn of the 11 LHR, brothers

McKAY    Charles James    57    Pte    11 LHR    MG Sect att DSqn/02 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to Cpl (from carlisle) 1-17 to T/Sgt 3 or 4 Sect - 4 LH MGS (57a) 2-17 to Sgt 3-17 to (qual Hotchkiss MG instructor) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 5-17 to cadet OCS Zeitoun 12-17 prom 2/Lt 9-3-18 rtn sect officer 4 LH MGS 4-18 to (MG officers course) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 4-18 rtn 5-18 to hosp (malaria) 11-18 rtn 1-19 (reported three Troops under Lts MacKay, Swan and Abercrombie) att moblie column under Maj Reid 04 LHR during Egyptian rebelion 3-19 & 4-19 to hosp (malaria) 6-19 RTA MU malaria later WWII Capt 7Bn VDC (Q225368) brothers John 11 LHR and George GSR

McKAY    John Thomas    58    Pte    11 LHR    MG Sect att DSqn/02 LHR 8-15 evac to (St Georges) hosp Malta (hernia) 10-15 (G) to OS Base 3-16 rtn MG Sect 3-16 to L/Cpl (from mckay) 1-17 to 3 or 4 Sect - 4 LH MGS 2-17 to T/Cpl (from mckay) 3-17 to Cpl 4-17 to (qual MG instructor) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 8-17 rtn 8-17 to Sgt (from mcdougall) 10-17 to (unknown course) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 2-18 rtn 2-18 to (unknown course) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 7-18 rtn 7-18 to MG Trg Sqn 8-18 to (unknown course) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 9-18 rtn 10-18 to hosp (malaria) 11-18 rtn 11-18 to T/SSM 1-19 revert to Sgt rtn 4 LH MGS 3-19 to UK leave 4-19 brothers Charles 11 LHR and George GSR
 

Yes he gained a Hotchkiss Instructor while in the MGS, why I don't know as they didn't use the weapon?

Most of the others don't record what courses there doing which is confussing with us researchers to find out why after 100 years?

S.B

[tankengine888]

6 minutes ago, stevebecker said:

Mate,

Just to give you some more men from another Sqn of the 11 LHR, brothers

McKAY    Charles James    57    Pte    11 LHR    MG Sect att DSqn/02 LHR 8-15 (G) rtn 2-16 to Cpl (from carlisle) 1-17 to T/Sgt 3 or 4 Sect - 4 LH MGS (57a) 2-17 to Sgt 3-17 to (qual Hotchkiss MG instructor) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 5-17 to cadet OCS Zeitoun 12-17 prom 2/Lt 9-3-18 rtn sect officer 4 LH MGS 4-18 to (MG officers course) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 4-18 rtn 5-18 to hosp (malaria) 11-18 rtn 1-19 (reported three Troops under Lts MacKay, Swan and Abercrombie) att moblie column under Maj Reid 04 LHR during Egyptian rebelion 3-19 & 4-19 to hosp (malaria) 6-19 RTA MU malaria later WWII Capt 7Bn VDC (Q225368) brothers John 11 LHR and George GSR

McKAY    John Thomas    58    Pte    11 LHR    MG Sect att DSqn/02 LHR 8-15 evac to (St Georges) hosp Malta (hernia) 10-15 (G) to OS Base 3-16 rtn MG Sect 3-16 to L/Cpl (from mckay) 1-17 to 3 or 4 Sect - 4 LH MGS 2-17 to T/Cpl (from mckay) 3-17 to Cpl 4-17 to (qual MG instructor) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 8-17 rtn 8-17 to Sgt (from mcdougall) 10-17 to (unknown course) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 2-18 rtn 2-18 to (unknown course) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 7-18 rtn 7-18 to MG Trg Sqn 8-18 to (unknown course) Imperial School of Instructor at Zeitoun 9-18 rtn 10-18 to hosp (malaria) 11-18 rtn 11-18 to T/SSM 1-19 revert to Sgt rtn 4 LH MGS 3-19 to UK leave 4-19 brothers Charles 11 LHR and George GSR
 

Yes he gained a Hotchkiss Instructor while in the MGS, why I don't know as they didn't use the weapon?

Most of the others don't record what courses there doing which is confussing with us researchers to find out why after 100 years?

S.B

Real pity they don’t record stuff like that (mostly). But that’s history aye. Cheers for the men, I’ll look through them when I have the time.

cheers.