Which V Corps Machine Gun Battalion did this man serve with

[oxlade134]

Thanks this makes it one of the 1/8th 2nd/8 or 3rd/8 Essex regiments then as he describes one of the photos in his pouch 8th essex

[FROGSMILE]

52 minutes ago, oxlade134 said:

Thanks this makes it one of the 1/8th 2nd/8 or 3rd/8 Essex regiments then as he describes one of the photos in his pouch 8th essex

Yes, all three lines were cyclist units formed at Colchester.  If you have any location details it should be possible to pin down which of the three units it is.

His initial MGC company was No33 Depot Company. If he arrived in France before the MGC battalions were formed (I’m not sure if he did) one way to determine his company’s number would be to trace the officers who paid him via their signatures in his AB64 (pay book).  He seems though to have spent the majority (possibly all) of his operational service in 21st Battalion MGC.

NB. His earliest payment “in the field” appears to have been 14th September 1917, so it’s possible he might have been with one of the numbered companies still, at that stage, unless it was during any time spent at the MGC base depot in France (Camiers) before joining his first operational unit.

Edited 19 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[oxlade134]

Written on this photo from his collection is  Oliver far right. from Ancestry member tim silk 58 photo taken at Kirby Cross, Essex – on exercise before going to France.

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, oxlade134 said:

Written on this photo from his collection is  Oliver far right. from Ancestry member tim silk 58 photo taken at Kirby Cross, Essex – on exercise before going to France.

1/8th were on Essex coast with Bn HQ at Wivenhoe from Aug 1914 until 1916, then to Southminster.

2/8th were at Great Clayton in March 1915 and then to Mistley and Manningtree before moving to Suffolk August 1916.  In April 1917 they moved back to Essex, Little Clacton. Moved to Hollesley Bay in October 1917 and then finally went to Bawdsley in April 1918.

3/8th seem to have stayed around Colchester (few details) until disbanded at Easter 1916.

Perhaps someone more familiar with Essex than I can help, but 2/8th seems like a strong contender.

 

Edited 19 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[AndrewSid]

With regard to his initial MGC Coy Frogsmile has it spot on.  I think your will need to read the 4 Coy diaries for clues.  His first field pay from his book is as stated 17 Sept.  Noting there may be another page missing before that.     So potentially your looking for reinforcement drafts arriving into the companies at that time.   Also worth noting that 237 MG Company and its 160 officers and men deployed as a formed unit into france on 14 July 1917 which isn’t far off.

Names in the paybook would be good if you can tie any of the 16 officers in each company to the paybook entries.  Good luck with the paybook entry handwriting….. However, if we can decipher 3 or so names i think were in with a chance of identifying his Company.

To add,  a quick look at the 237  war diary sees them leave Grantham for France on 12th July and arriving on the 14th.

Officers mentioned in diary are:

2nd Lt Wadsworth

2nd Lt Frost

Lt Chittenden - 2 I/C spelling dubious

Capt G H Bickley OC

Capt A G Power OC from Grantham until 6.9.17. - spelling dubious

Lt J E Enright -  Adj - spelling dubious

That’s all the officers mentioned -  so at least 10 missing.  Casualties to Feb 18 when the Bn war diary would take over were light with no  drafts joining observed. 

Edited 19 October , 2021 by AndrewSid

[oxlade134]

This photograph of Oliver Palmer I though worth posting as its fairly unique for the War Forum three soldiers but all with running shoes on. I speculate part of the 21st Battalion MGC cross country team at Ailly-sur-Somme in October 1919 

 

 

PALMER O.A., standing right, (found in paybook) - written on reverse, Ailly Sur Somme, Amiens 04-10-1919

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, oxlade134 said:

This photograph of Oliver Palmer I though worth posting as its fairly unique for the War Forum three soldiers but all with running shoes on. I speculate part of the 21st Battalion MGC cross country team at Ailly-sur-Somme in October 1919 

 

 

PALMER O.A., standing right, (found in paybook) - written on reverse, Ailly Sur Somme, Amiens 04-10-1919

Those are not running shoes they’re just muddy army boots (possibly B5s but I can’t make the details out).

[oxlade134]

I respectively disagree with you sir, Oliver's shoes close up shows they are quite different to any boots, I can find of British army i(ncl B5) boots and this close up looks to me a comfortable shoe for running. Not quite a nike logo but some sort of star shaped logo on ankle maybe a Army insignia ?

[Michelle Young]

Still look like army boots to me. Photo attached of the Chavasse twins (courtesy of lps-athletics.co.uk) showing their running shoes 

[FROGSMILE]

11 hours ago, oxlade134 said:

I respectively disagree with you sir, Oliver's shoes close up shows they are quite different to any boots, I can find of British army i(ncl B5) boots and this close up looks to me a comfortable shoe for running. Not quite a nike logo but some sort of star shaped logo on ankle maybe a Army insignia ?

They are normal leather army boots with puttees commencing upward around the ankles. The standard laced flaps of so-called Derby type are obvious and, apart from the absence of a toe cap, little different to army boots that I wore for 20-years myself (leather soled and studded ammunition boots). Both men are wearing the same army issue type.  Soldiers were also issued canvas shoes that they often wore when off-duty, as well as for some types of physical training, and Michelle has posted a photo of typical running shoes of the period.

NB. The ‘star shaped logo’ that your eyes apparently see is merely the reflection of light.

Edited 20 October , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[oxlade134]

I am convinced by the photos submitted by Frogsmile and Michele Young that they are indeed not running shoes. Thank you for taking the trouble to post the examples of footwear of the period. It was Oliver’s grandson who sent me the photo originally and suggested the running shoes and I’m afraid that swayed me . It was a good quality scan  so no excuse there and I’m an artist that specializes in realistic drawings  so just goes to show how the eyes can get deceived by suggestion, even if  they are practiced in observation. Thanks again !