Keith_history_buff Posted 7 April , 2022 Share Posted 7 April , 2022 Quote Section 22 – information intended for future publication This exemption applies if, when you receive a request for information, you are preparing the material and definitely intend for it to be published, and it is reasonable not to disclose it until then. You do not need to have identified a publication date. This exemption does not necessarily apply to all draft materials or background research. It will only apply to the material you intend to be published. You do not have to confirm whether you hold the information requested if doing so would reveal the content of the information. This exemption is qualified by the public interest test. For further information, read our more detailed guidance:https://ico.org.uk/media/for-organisations/documents/1172/information-intended-for-future-publication-and-research-information-sections-22-and-22a-foi.pdf Source:https://ico.org.uk/for-organisations/guide-to-freedom-of-information/refusing-a-request/ I was aware of this, but I believe it is one of the rarer instances where a FoI request is turned down. Usually, a request can be rejected because it costs too much, the request is vexatious or it is a repeat question from the same person who has already made the request. I'm aware of the existence of this rule, but I am not familiar with how it is applied. There have been criticisms of the Ministry of Defence for its lack of transparency, but TNA could come under the umbrella of DCMS. Given that the persons who served in the Royal Engineers and were discharged from January 1921 onwards with surviving service records, who were born prior to 1910 have been added to TNA's catalogue, it may well be the case there are similar tranches of data to be added. That I can tell, it's simply transferring key data from a table (excel or otherwise) into the catalogue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 7 April , 2022 Share Posted 7 April , 2022 Yes, it can't be that hard to generate the data, because I would assume the dataset already exists? In order to generate the database of the half a million odd records that was released in 2014(?), I presume the MOD, knowing that they would be bound to release further cohort data in future, would have recorded details of all the records in their possession, rather than just those of the men born from 1864 to 1900 inclusive whose details were released under the FOI? If that is so, it's just a matter of running an Excel query on the existing data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 7 April , 2022 Share Posted 7 April , 2022 On 06/04/2022 at 12:26, charlie962 said: There were also errors and omissions in the original MoD spreadsheet so it will be interesting to see how many 'new' records emerge. It strikes me that the 56,261 service records just released are "new" and were missing from the MOD spreadsheets. The majority listed in the spreadsheets were from account codes 11005 and 11006 yet 11009 was missing. The number of records now released matches closely to those with account code 11009 which was designated REME OA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildaremark Posted 21 June , 2022 Share Posted 21 June , 2022 I'm only joining this late having found my granddad on the 1921 census. He wasn't list on the original spreadsheets of pre 1900 births despite being born in 1895 and was discharged in 1922. Does this mean there is still a chance that some time in the next 6 years he might emerge from 11005 Army ORs discharges 1921-1939. Is there some indication of the order in which these will be done?? Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 June , 2022 Share Posted 21 June , 2022 24 minutes ago, kildaremark said: I'm only joining this late having found my granddad on the 1921 census. He wasn't list on the original spreadsheets of pre 1900 births despite being born in 1895 and was discharged in 1922. Does this mean there is still a chance that some time in the next 6 years he might emerge from 11005 Army ORs discharges 1921-1939. Is there some indication of the order in which these will be done?? Mark He may well emerge but until they're all indexed properly you'll never know. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntaylor Posted 21 June , 2022 Share Posted 21 June , 2022 As long as they don't give the job to Ancestry. In that case we'll NEVER know. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mandy hall Posted 21 June , 2022 Share Posted 21 June , 2022 7 hours ago, kildaremark said: I'm only joining this late having found my granddad on the 1921 census. He wasn't list on the original spreadsheets of pre 1900 births despite being born in 1895 and was discharged in 1922. Does this mean there is still a chance that some time in the next 6 years he might emerge from 11005 Army ORs discharges 1921-1939. Is there some indication of the order in which these will be done?? Mark Hi Mark My grandad born 1896, also does not appear on the MOD spreadsheets, but the MOD have his service record. I ordered a copy of his service record before the spreadsheets appeared online. If you have never applied for his service record, give it a go. It could be the best £30 you ever spend. Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kildaremark Posted 21 June , 2022 Share Posted 21 June , 2022 13 minutes ago, mandy hall said: Hi Mark My grandad born 1896, also does not appear on the MOD spreadsheets, but the MOD have his service record. I ordered a copy of his service record before the spreadsheets appeared online. If you have never applied for his service record, give it a go. It could be the best £30 you ever spend. Mandy Thanks for that Mandy. I ordered about 25 years ago and then tried again for a recheck about 19-15 years ago. He was discharged in July 1932 so shoukd have been there! Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 22 June , 2022 Share Posted 22 June , 2022 (edited) A further 94,000 service records are released today. WO 421: Selected Smaller Corps Other Ranks. Again, I can't find these in the MOD spreadsheets despite the fact that many were born before 1901. This is Account Code 11011 - Bournemouth OA. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/r/C17682287 Edited 22 June , 2022 by David Porter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 22 June , 2022 Share Posted 22 June , 2022 (edited) Thanks David, These files seem to relate to WWII The reference for the files is: WO 421[1939-1963] War Office: Selected Smaller Corps Other Ranks: Service Records "This series consists of 94,234 service records of soldiers (but not officers) who served in 12 different smaller units/corps of the British Army during the Second World War and immediately after, and who were discharged from the armed forces as over age before their time expired. Individuals may have served in other regiments/corps during the course of their military careers (details of which will be recorded on their service record), but this series contains those whose service ended in one of the following: Army Air Corps Royal Army Veterinary Corps Royal Military Police (or Corps of Military Police) Royal Army Pay Corps Royal Army Physical Training Corps Military Provost Staff Corps Royal Corps of Army Music Royal Army Education Corps Royal Pioneer Corps " Edit: I suppose some born before 1903ish might have reference to Great War service, or even contain their entire GW Service Record (assuming those records survived the blitz.) Intelligence Corps Officer Training Corps Non-Combatant Corps Edited 22 June , 2022 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedCoat Posted 26 June , 2022 Share Posted 26 June , 2022 I have two Great Uncles, born 1903 and 1907. They served in the Royal Artillery. I wonder when the RA records are being released? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Beckett Posted 26 June , 2022 Share Posted 26 June , 2022 I have just received my fathers WW2 RAF record after applying just over a month ago. He enlisted in 1942 and demobbed in 1945. He lived in Islington and was posted to No 51 OTU at Cranfield Beds which explains why, as he told me years ago, he was often home for the weekends. Great service from the RAF records section Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedCoat Posted 26 July , 2022 Share Posted 26 July , 2022 Does anyone know if records for soldiers killed during the Second World War are going to be digitised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick M Posted 26 July , 2022 Share Posted 26 July , 2022 Sorry to be late here, but is there any likelihood the dual war soldiers records were stored separately, thereby a potential of 500,000 unburnt files? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 26 July , 2022 Author Share Posted 26 July , 2022 49 minutes ago, RedCoat said: Does anyone know if records for soldiers killed during the Second World War are going to be digitised? Current MOD/TNA plan does not differentiate between casualty and non casualty service records so there is no priority to despatch casualty service records to TNA. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick M Posted 26 July , 2022 Share Posted 26 July , 2022 33 minutes ago, tullybrone said: Current MOD/TNA plan does not differentiate between casualty and non casualty service records so there is no priority to despatch casualty service records to TNA. Steve Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 20 October , 2022 Share Posted 20 October , 2022 I note more service records have been released this month. WO 422: Infantry Over Age Other Ranks: Service Records, Second World War Quite a few seem to have born before 1901. This may be from MOD account code 11010. The series is accruing and so far has 22000 files.https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C17866205 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewSid Posted 20 October , 2022 Share Posted 20 October , 2022 Is anyone aware of a rollout plan for these records ie when each corps/ regiment will be released or in what order? I understand the project may take a number of years (up to 5) so being aware whether your man is next or not scheduled until 2026 would be useful. NA must have a plan! Im waiting for a TA artillery man from the 1920s who has WW1 infantry and MGC service. Application sent back with cheque saying it’s with Kew but there is an option to ask the Kew team via email for it (at least that’s how it reads) so I have done that and awaiting a reply. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 20 October , 2022 Share Posted 20 October , 2022 I'm getting older so I'd like a nearer date.......... (but - as an retiree from a museum - it is quite a job!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 21 October , 2022 Share Posted 21 October , 2022 Does this still include the Guards soldiers' records (excluding the Scots Guards)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianB Posted 21 October , 2022 Share Posted 21 October , 2022 Are the "Statements" (reason for capture) - Glasgow I am told, but will they come to Kew ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 21 October , 2022 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, rolt968 said: Does this still include the Guards soldiers' records (excluding the Scots Guards)? As far as I know the answer is yes but I don’t believe any have been transferred yet. You could always phone MOD or send an email FOI request for an update. Steve 7 minutes ago, JulianB said: Are the "Statements" (reason for capture) - Glasgow I am told, but will they come to Kew ?? No idea. If you know they are held by MOD give them a ring/submit an email and ask the question under FOI. Steve Edited 21 October , 2022 by tullybrone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 21 October , 2022 Share Posted 21 October , 2022 All things being equal, you would think that those records of the Brigade of Guards (Scots Guards excepted), that were transferred to the Ministry of Defence in September 2018, would be separated into records for men who served from 1750 up to August 1920, and for those to be indexed, then made accessible in the same manner as the WO 420 and WO 421 records as already mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 27 October , 2022 Share Posted 27 October , 2022 I saw the following on another Forum, dated 26 October 2022. https://www.whowhenwheregenealogy.org.uk/viewtopic.php?p=4497#p4497 'We applied for my husband's Father's record from TNA. They have us told we will have to wait 6 months before receiving anything, as that is how long they are taking to deal with queries!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC78 Posted 14 February , 2023 Share Posted 14 February , 2023 Not sure how this ties in with the transfer of records to Kew, but gov.uk says that from 1 April 2023 there will be no charge for service record applications. https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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