Royal Dublin Fusiliers and Indian Army Officer

[PRC]

The death of a man who styled himself Joseph Charles Brendan De Voy, born Dublin, Ireland, 11th February 1892, was recorded in Salisbury, Rhodesia, as having occurred on the 6th October 1975 at the Andrew Fleming Hospital. Home address was Fairways Home, Bodle Avenie, Salisbury. He was married and retired.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKZQ-RSRM

The fuller death certificate records him as Devoy and that he had married his current wife, Florence Agnes, at Ambala, India, on the 23rd February 1923. He had no children alive or dead. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPZR-D8YK

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, MaureenE said:

There is a mention that he received WW2 medals, so he didn't die before then. Sounds like he may have been divorced for his wife to remarry in 1922.

Maureen

 

Yes of course, thank you Maureene, I confused myself, given that we’d not long before discussed WW2, with speculation on my part as to what he might have done during that conflict.  Rather sad that his marriage ended, but considering that he married in 1915, and then was largely away on operations until 1921, presumably with little opportunity for home leave, one can imagine the interminable strain that the separation must have placed on the marriage. 

Edited 3 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, PRC said:

The death of a man who styled himself Joseph Charles Brendan De Voy, born Dublin, Ireland, 11th February 1892, was recorded in Salisbury, Rhodesia, as having occurred on the 6th October 1975 at the Andrew Fleming Hospital. Home address was Fairways Home, Bodle Avenie, Salisbury. He was married and retired.

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QKZQ-RSRM

The fuller death certificate records him as Devoy and that he had married his current wife, Florence Agnes, at Ambala, India, on the 23rd February 1923. He had no children alive or dead. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QPZR-D8YK

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you Peter, it seems that neither of the original couple dallied before remarrying once Lieutenant Devoy had left the Service.  One can only hope that they both found happiness in the end.

Edited 3 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[corisande]

Looking at his time line to get the perspective. It is an interesting tale of the times

 

1891 Feb 11 Born Dublin son of an Inland Revenue Official Joseph Daniel Devoy & Elizabeth Devoy (nee Kavanagh)

1901 Irish Census has him in Dublin with his family

1915 Aug 21  He gets DCM - 10335 Sergeant J Devoy, 1st Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers.- For conspicuous gallantry and devotion , at Suvla Bay.

1915 Dec 18 Married Rosalie Lillian Garside in Denbigh. She had been born in India . He claims his father was Joseph Daniel Hartley Devoy (deceased) , a Physician & Surgeon

1916 Gazetted French MM

1916 Mar 4 Commissioned RDF

1917 Mar 5. appointed Lt (on probation) to the Indian Army.

1917 Apr/Jun A son Brendan Kevin Devoy born West Brom, England. For some reason the Birth Cert was changed in Sep 1918. Mother Garside

1918 Jun 3. Lieut (actg Capt ) J C Devoy, M C ,D C M , relinquishes his actg rank on ceasing to' be Adjt of a Battn

1918 Jun 19 Lieut J C Devoy, MiC , D C M , to be actg Capt while comdg. a Coy

1919 Jun 12.  Indian Army 18th Bullock Corps. Lieut. J. C. Devoy, LA., attd., to be actg.Capt. while comdg. an Animal TransportUnit.

1920 Jun 5 A Son born at Tamil Nādu, India. Mother Rosalie Lillian. Child was Maurice Roland Devoy

1921 Nov 11. Child born in Tamil Nadu to Joseph & Lilian, being Ivy Doreen Devoy

1922  Mar 11 retires from Indian Army. Indian General Service Medal with clasps - Mahsud 1919-20, Waziristan 1919-21

1922 Nov 27 . Lillian Rosalie Garside married Ronald Drucquer in Ootacamund, Madras.

1923 Feb 23 . He married Florence Agnes, at Ambala, India, . He had no children alive or dead by her when he died

1939-1945 War Medal

1975 Oct 6. Died Salisbury , Rhodesia

 

There seems no doubt that

• his wife re-married in 1922. Statistically he is more likely to have deserted wife & child than other way round
• he served in WW2 in some capacity. Nothing in LG so I assume it was as OR

 

Edited 3 August , 2021 by corisande

[FROGSMILE]

7 hours ago, corisande said:

Looking at his time line to get the perspective. It is an interesting tale of the times

 

1891 Feb 11 Born Dublin son of an Inland Revenue Official Joseph Daniel Devoy & Elizabeth Devoy (nee Kavanagh)

1901 Irish Census has him in Dublin with his family

1915 Aug 21  He gets DCM - 10335 Sergeant J Devoy, 1st Battalion, Royal Dublin Fusiliers.- For conspicuous gallantry and devotion , at Suvla Bay.

1915 Dec 18 Married Rosalie Lillian Garside in Denbigh. She had been born in India . He claims his father was Joseph Daniel Hartley Devoy (deceased) , a Physician & Surgeon

1916 Gazetted French MM

1916 Mar 4 Commissioned RDF

1917 Mar 5. appointed Lt (on probation) to the Indian Army.

1918 Jun 3. Lieut (actg Capt ) J C Devoy, M C ,D C M , relinquishes his actg rank on ceasing to' be Adjt of a Battn

1918 Jun 19 Lieut J C Devoy, MiC , D C M , to be actg Capt while comdg. a Coy

1920 Jun 30 A Son born at Tamil Nādu, India. Mother Rosalie Lillian

1919 Jun 12.  Indian Army 18th Bullock Corps. Lieut. J. C. Devoy, LA., attd., to be actg.Capt. while comdg. an Animal TransportUnit.

1922  Mar 11 retires from Indian Army. Indian General Service Medal with clasps - Mahsud 1919-20, Waziristan 1919-21

1922 Nov 27 . Lillian Rosalie Garside married Ronald Drucquer in Ootacamund, Madras.

1923 Feb 23 . He married Florence Agnes, at Ambala, India, . He had no children alive or dead by her when he died

1939-1945 War Medal

1975 Oct 6. Died Salisbury , Rhodesia

 

There seems no doubt that

• his wife re-married in 1922. Statistically he is more likely to have deserted wife & child than other way round
• he served in WW2 in some capacity. Nothing in LG so I assume it was as OR

 

Yes it’s a fascinating story even before you infill with his active service in Gallipoli and on the Somme.  I’m curious about his education and how good it might have been.  Also the date of his original enlistment and how quickly he might have advanced through the ranks.  Plus how it was that he ended up in Denbigh and met his first wife.  Was his unit briefly withdrawn there perhaps?  I’ve not yet looked at 1RDF’s movements, but that seems unlikely and I recall that for a period battalion remnants merged with a similar rump of RMF to briefly become “Dubsters”.  Ergo it seems more likely that he was sent to Wales to medically recuperate after wounding.  Perhaps there was such a convalescent hospital at Denbigh.  Given his experiences as recounted, then PTSD to some degree might have been expected.  If the bride was born in India and her father was a subaltern with a Reserve battalion of the RWF I wouldn’t be surprised if he was a ranker too and they might even have been known to each other from prewar.  The absence of any LG entry during WW2 suggests to me service in something other than Home Guard.  His movements in the Indian Army are typical for a ranker officer, where there was, according to various accounts that I’ve read, a huge amount of snobbery from the European officers of infantry and cavalry units.

Edited 3 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[michaelpi]

Perhaps there was such a convalescent hospital at Denbigh

Llanbedr Hall, Ruthin, the location of the Vale of Clwyd Sanatorium

[FROGSMILE]

4 minutes ago, michaelpi said:

Perhaps there was such a convalescent hospital at Denbigh

Llanbedr Hall, Ruthin, the location of the Vale of Clwyd Sanatorium

I wonder if that’s where he was.  It seems unlikely that records will have survived.

[Rock]

Yes his fathers trade on the marriage cert is wrong,his was was a civil servant and worked for a time in London.

[FROGSMILE]

11 minutes ago, Rock said:

Yes his fathers trade on the marriage cert is wrong,his was was a civil servant and worked for a time in London.

There was some stigma to being a tax collector and it suggests that the groom deliberately hid the fact.  It seems inescapable that it was purposeful rather than a mistake.

Edited 3 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[corisande]

He had a son Kevin born to L R Garside in 1917, and the birth cert was altered in Sep 1918 - no reason given, Said child grew up as Brendan Kevin Drucquer and died Nottingham in 2010

[edit] added

..and there was a daughter Ivy Doreen Devoy born 28 Nov 1921 in Tamil Nadu

 

 

Edited 3 August , 2021 by corisande

[FROGSMILE]

10 minutes ago, corisande said:

He had a son Kevin born to L R Garside in 1917, and the birth cert was altered in Sep 1918 - no reason given, Said child grew up as Brendan Kevin Drucquer and died Nottingham in 2010

 

 

 

If the name was changed in 1918 it does suggest a much earlier marital break up, whilst Lt Devoy was still on active service, and his wife leading a life in cantonment.  Not at all uncommon during the war of course.

Edited 3 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[corisande]

24 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

If the name was changed in 1918 it does suggest a much earlier marital break up,

Difficult to say what was going on. The Birth Cert certainly was changed, but one would need to buy both to see what changed and why. This son was was born in UK

He did have another son in India by Lilian Garside. This was Maurice Ronald Devoy in 1920. It is on Indian records as Devoy, but he used Druquer, and this Ancestry tree has Druquer  as the father !

It is very complicated, I think it would only be if I got something in the newspapers that I could get any more on him

Edited 3 August , 2021 by corisande

[michaelpi]

5 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

I wonder if that's where he was

Eli Garside was a Regular with 2nd Welsh Regiment. They returned to England in April 1910 after 17 years abroad.  Eli was QM, honorary lieutenant, 21st RWF from mid 1915 to mid 1916. They were at Kinmel Park for some of this time. The groom may have passed some time there..........

 Image, if it appears, National Libray of Wales.

 

[FROGSMILE]

43 minutes ago, michaelpi said:

Eli Garside was a Regular with 2nd Welsh Regiment. They returned to England in April 1910 after 17 years abroad.  Eli was QM, honorary lieutenant, 21st RWF from mid 1915 to mid 1916. They were at Kinmel Park for some of this time. The groom may have passed some time there..........

 Image, if it appears, National Libray of Wales.

 

Good detective work Michael.  1st Bn Welsh were in Chakrata until the outbreak of war and 1st Bn RDF were similarly in Madras.  It's possible that the two met before the war as training courses at the various schools in India were attended by students from across the infantry garrisons there.  Failing that they would probably have had an affinity anyway, and one can imagine Garside encouraging his daughter to walk out with a SNCO who not only had the 2nd highest gallantry medal for ORs, but who also seemed to be going places (application for commission in by then one assumes).  It's also made me wonder whether young miss Garside had been encouraged, as the daughter of a veteran who had grown up on an infantry cantonment, to attend to the care of some of the wounded in her vicinity.  Local worthies, including some women, often organised charabanc outings and concerts, etc. for the wounded.  All speculation of course, but the sort of thing that did occur among and between veterans of the period.

Edited 3 August , 2021 by FROGSMILE

[Matthew B.]

J. C. Devoy’s retirement from the Indian Army.

 

LG 2/5/1924

The KING has approved the retirement of the following officers under the provisions of the Royal Warrants, dated 25th April 1922 and 25th April 1923, with effect from the dates specified:—

INDIAN ARMY.

Captains.

J. C. Devoy, M.C., D.C.M. 11th Mar. 1922.

 

What was happening was that the Indian Army was retrenching (i.e. reducing in size) post WW1 and effectively he accepted redundancy terms, which is what the Royal Warrants, dated 25th April 1922 and 25th April 1923, set out.

I hope that helps.

Matthew

[Rock]

Many thanks for all the information and help from the members