Unknown Medal

[Andrew Upton]

10 minutes ago, Fiona Paul Hernandez said:

...I did find the “letter” from W.Churchill and have attached it.  It may show upside down (I have no idea why?)...

 

[Matlock1418]

3 hours ago, Fiona Paul Hernandez said:

My GF was also William Alexander Paul who was a rifleman with the Cameronians (not the Caledonians - my bad)!  And yes it was a Military Medal (now in a safe being held for my son in NJ, USA).  Military Medal given (1918) for going onto the frontline, under German fire, to save his sergeant who had been shot.  Then returning out a second time to retrieve a machine gun that the sergeant was using and that had been left behind and not wanting the enemy to get hold of it.

Fiona, Thank you for the extra info.

• "My GF was also William Alexander Paul who was a rifleman with the Cameronians"

We have to be careful with Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) and Cameron Highlanders !!!!

Taking your post at face value then the London Gazette https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31338/supplement/6030 offers:

His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to approve of the award of a Military Medal for bravery in the Field to the undermentioned Warrant Officers, Non-Commissioned Officers and Men: — ... SCOTTISH RIFLES ... 41457 Pte. Paul, W., 1st Bn. (Glasgow) = does this ring true? [Number should be on the MM's rim]

A publication for a 1918 event would probably not be unusual in 1919

Perhaps member @Ivor Anderson may be able to help more with the MM

This soldier was awarded the British War Medal and Victory Medal under the same 41457 number

The Medal Roll for these medals may offer further info on which battalion(s) he served.

Given only a BWM & VM then first in theatre after 31/12/1915 - and taking 1st Bn at face value this is the War Diary [currently free to download from TNA after free registration]

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353827 

It is uncommon for an OR to get a mention in a WD but perhaps never say never if a MM-worthy event - citations are not usual so your level of knowledge would seem likely to have come a source closer to home.

Always assuming I have found the right WAP.

M

Edited 16 January by Matlock1418
my typo

[Matlock1418]

A lovely certificate, clearly treasured.

1919 London Gazette entry https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31385/supplement/7227

General Headquarters, British Salonika Force, Constantinople.  2th March, 1919. SIR, I have the honour to submit herewith a list of names of the Officers, Warrant Officers, Non-Commissioned Officers, Men and Nursing Staff, whom I desire to bring to your notice for their distinguished and gallant services during the period from 1st October, 1918, to the 1st March, 1919. I have the honour to be, Sir, Your obedient Servant, G. F. MILNE, Lieut.-General, Commanding-in-Chief, British Salonika Force. ... ROYAL ARMY MEDICAL CORPS ... Paul, 93660 S.M. W. A. 

Salonika eh?

Perhaps other members might be able to offer more info on that theatre, possibly @keithmroberts and possibly he, and/or others, on the RAMC out there.

MIC shows BWM & VM [so again O/S ToW after 31/12/1915]

M

Edited 16 January by Matlock1418
ocr typo

[Fiona Paul Hernandez]

[keithmroberts]

Hostilities in the Salonika campaign largely ended with the Armistice with Bulgaria which took effect on 29  September 1918. There was some fighting between advancing Serb  forces and the Austro- Hungarian and German troops still on parts of Serbia, but I think British troops were intially more involved moving into Bulgaria, and then Constantinople.

  There was undoubtedly much ongoing medical work in the military hospitals which were largely grouped around Salonika ( now Thessaloniki), and some medical support sould still be coming from the hospitals in Malta, but the advancing troops would presumably also be supported by RAMC personnel as they advanced to their new positions.

 

[Interested]

Your Certificate is a "Mention in Despatches" which on this site is usually abbreviated to MiD, and I have a similar one awarded to my Grandfather.  I believe the signatures were created automatically.

[Fiona Paul Hernandez]

My GF was #41457.  I’ve asked my ex husband to send me a photo of the rim to make extra sure.

The above photo is of his medals. 

I am definitely going to look into the national archives for more information.  Thank you for the link!

[Matlock1418]

1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said:

MIC shows BWM & VM [so again O/S ToW after 31/12/1915]

Forgot to mention, though I don't see noted on the MIC - a MiD qualified for a bronze Oak Leaf and this should be found affixed onto the front of the 'rainbow' Victory Medal ribband above the medal's point of suspension [about where the taper starts].

M

Edited 16 January by Matlock1418

[Ivor Anderson]

14 hours ago, Matlock1418 said:

41457 Pte. Paul, W., 1st Bn. (Glasgow)

  This was one of 3 MMs awarded to men of the 1st Bn. for actions in France towards the end of WW1: https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31338/supplement/6030

  His MM index card is here: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6205702

  His MM schedule (issue) no. was 219175. The other 2 men had consecutive schedule nos., so they were awarded together:

219176 William Worgan 42801

219177 Pte. Norman Banford 43094

As Matlock has said, they may get a WD mention

16 hours ago, Fiona Paul Hernandez said:

Military Medal given (1918) for going onto the frontline, under German fire, to save his sergeant who had been shot.  Then returning out a second time to retrieve a machine gun that the sergeant was using and that had been left behind and not wanting the enemy to get hold of it.

It sounds like your family either had the citation, or your GF, at one point, did say what he got his MM for?

[charlie962]

4 hours ago, Ivor Anderson said:

It sounds like your family either had the citation, or your GF, at one point, did say what he got his MM for?

 

20 hours ago, Fiona Paul Hernandez said:

I never met my GGF and my GF never, ever said a word about his time fighting.  We know the above information from a letter sent back to Glasgow from a fellow Cameronian who knew our family and also knew that my GF would tell no one what had happened.  I have a copy of the letter somewhere.

 

[KGB]

I am unsure that it is a medal, not a British Great War one anyhow. 

[Ivor Anderson]

It could be something like this?   French Medal of the Veterans of 1870-1871

"Silvered bronze medal in the form of a trophy of arms with loop for ribbon suspension decorated with laurel and oak leaves; the face with a trophy of military and naval arms imposed on standards above the motto ‘OUBLIER…JAMAIS!’ (Never Forget); the reverse plain; a on original ribbon mounted for wear with button by Gatty of 38 Rue de Rambuteau Paris 7500. A national society of retirees who were veterans of the 1870-1871 war against Prussia (Germany) was founded on 1 January 1893 by Commandant Charet. It met with great success, attaining a membership of more than 300,000 within ten years. A nice example."

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/134893606244?hash=item1f68491564:g:Cp4AAOSwd8ZlplYj

Edited 17 January by Ivor Anderson