Tom Hulme Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Hi, I am just trying to find out some more information for my nana about the passing of her grandad in world war 1. Charles Thomas Fox was 33 when he died On April 19th 1918 in France. He was born in Stockport, Cheshire, England. I have attached an image of all I know already but would like to find out more if possible. if anyone can find any more information about this it would be of great help. Thanks, Tom Hulme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 22 June , 2021 Admin Share Posted 22 June , 2021 https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/37730/C T FOX/ Welcome to the forum. He's buried at Ebblinghem Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Ebblinghem had two Casualty Clearing Stations based there from April 1918,Numbers 2 and 15. The Cemetery contains those who died of wounds around a few months from April 1918. I see from other records that Charles first landed in France on 23 December 1915 and would have been entitled to three campaign medals,1914-15 Star,British War,and Victory Medals. These would have been forwarded to NOK (Elizabeth/Eliza) in the early 1920s. Charles is likely to have been wounded during the Battle of the Lys (9-23 April 1918) when the Germans were conducting a fierce offensive (Georgette) and conveyed to one of the Casualty Stations in the rear of the battle zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Hi Tom, Welcome to GWF. A lovely much treasured memorial artefact - but sadly it does seem to have suffered. Wonder if it is from a newspaper [?] - and if you and/or GWF can find a better copy or an article and photo in a local newspaper. He's hoping for you. There are a number of pension records for his widow and family - will post shortly. :-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Welcome to the Forum Tom, I don't know if you have seen his entry in the medal rolls but I have attached the image below. (image courtesy of Ancestry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 (edited) From the pension index cards saved by the Western Front Association and now available at Fold3 This is the main one with most info [the other two don't add] Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3 Most will be straightforward to read but here are a few bits of interpretation for you. Eliza Ann's date of birth 16.11.88 is important as she would get a further age-related uplift of her pension when she reached 45 An earlier address in Shaw Heath, Stockport, has been struck through - so that's a handy primer for her address - perhaps Charles Thomas's too [?] A £5 death grant was paid for death expenses [as buried in France would possibly have gone for flowers, possibly mourning dress and it seems likely on a newspaper memorial insert/memorial such you have above. Maybe even an inscription on a family grave headstone in the UK. Possibly to pay for an inscription on his headstone in France, initially such inscriptions had to be paid for - later this requirement was normally relaxed by I/CWGC - but this alternative inscription seems not to have have happened] The "S.A." below is the number of dependants children [4] for whom Separation Allowance would be paid - typically for six months after death when the widow's pension and children's allowances would then kick in [this seems pretty much the case given the date the pension seems to have started, from 4.11.18.] The children's dates of birth are important as their allowances would normally stop at age 16 [except under very exceptional circumstances, - e.g. such as disability and/or special educational needs - can't tell anything on these possibilities] The 33/9 pension [per week] is a combination of widow's pension and four children's allowances. Over time the pension would have been adjusted due to the varying described circumstances above The card is marked DEAD - this is claim becoming dead, not necessarily family at that date though obviously would end with either the widow's remarriage or death [I've no knowledge of either]. And the children's allowances would stop when the children reached 16. However no date annotation seems attached as might be the usual case - given the youngest child wouldn't have been 16 until 3.6.31 it must have happened then or later. Sadly his/her main pension file will likely have been lost as most were deliberately destroyed once they had served their purpose [many were destroyed in the 1960s. It largely matters not now, they seem to mostly be gone - Only a few files were kept relating to disability, but not widows], But who knows? We can all live in hope - but don't hold your breath. Hope that has been of interest. :-) M Edited 22 June , 2021 by Matlock1418 typo & further explanation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan1892 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Struggled to find his Medal Index card on both Ancestry and Find My Past but have found it on the National Archives. His card shows that he was in France from the 23 December 1915. I have attached an image of his card (courtesy of NA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 (edited) Here is a snipped photo of his headstone in Ebblinghem, France. Image courtesy of TWGPP Paid for copy [presumably better quality!] available from The War Grave Photographic Project https://www.twgpp.org/photograph/view/3779050 :-) M Edited 22 June , 2021 by Matlock1418 typo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hulme Posted 22 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Wow thanks guys, that’s incredible, can’t wait to show it her. Thank you everyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 (edited) 10 hours ago, Tom Hulme said: He was born in Stockport, Cheshire, England. Quick questions: = How do you know that? = How sure are you? = Any idea what his occupation was before the war? :-) M Edit: Have found a Stockport 1911 Census [Sunday 2 April I believe] for a CTF (25), L&NWR Railway Goods Porter, and a EAF (22), Cotton Mill Ring Spinner, who had been married for 17 months [c. Nov. 1909] with an un-named child [gender not indicated] - but he was not born in Stockport, nor was she. ?? Hope to hear from you. Edited 22 June , 2021 by Matlock1418 edit & later a typo in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Here is the other medal roll - for his 1914-15 Star [Two Medal Rolls were needed to complete his MIC] Image courtesy of Ancestry :-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodnbits Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Weekly Casualty List (War Office & Air Ministry ) 04 June 1918 Source thanks to FMP/ British newspaper Archives Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Great detail here: https://www.shropshirearchives.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/wellington-remembers_Fox-Charles-Thomas.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Kath said: Great detail here: https://www.shropshirearchives.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/wellington-remembers_Fox-Charles-Thomas.pdf Nice find and summary - that's the CTF of the 1911 Census that I found [above] - with the 4 Kinder Street, Edgeley address - and Wellington, Shropshire birth. And some better photos. Ironic that he gets a big write-up in Shropshire but apparently not in Stockport [well not found one yet]. :-) M Edit: The Cheshire Roll of Honour, 'More than a Name' only has what CWGC has published https://www.cheshireroll.co.uk/soldier/?i=23769/w/1440-gunner-Charles-thomas-1440 Think this is him on STOCKPORT MEMORIAL HALL AND ART GALLERY https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/item/memorial/2794 https://www.iwm.org.uk/memorials/name/1226830 Edited 22 June , 2021 by Matlock1418 edit: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 (edited) Wonder as he seems to have been working for the railways before the war if he is commemorated on a railway war memorial ?? Can anyone better than me find one? :-) M Edit: War Memorials Online have this for LONDON AND NORTH WESTERN RAILWAY COMPANY WW1 ROLL OF HONOUR https://www.warmemorialsonline.org.uk/memorial/172589 but have no idea if CTF is on/in it. He is - Page 19, left column [hard to find - but the images scroll in a non-numerical order and you can stop page 19 by clicking on it when eventually turns up] Edited 22 June , 2021 by Matlock1418 Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 28 minutes ago, Matlock1418 said: Wonder as he seems to have been working for the railways before the war if he is commemorated on a railway war memorial He is on the LNWR Memorial as a Loader from Stockport & a Gunner But that is all I can find on him there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, corisande said: He is on the LNWR Memorial as a Loader from Stockport & a Gunner Thanks. See also my post above edit regarding the RoH on War Memorials Online :-) M Edit: For clarity - "Loader" being his LNWR Grade Edited 22 June , 2021 by Matlock1418 edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Linham Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Although he is not included in the LNWR list for the St Paul's Cathedral service in memory of railwaymen which took place on Wednesday 14th May 1919. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Hulme Posted 22 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2021 I am Positive he was born in Stockport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 22 June , 2021 Admin Share Posted 22 June , 2021 1 hour ago, Matlock1418 said: Quick questions: = How do you know that? = How sure are you? = Any idea what his occupation was before the war? :-) M Edit: Have found a Stockport 1911 Census [Sunday 2 April I believe] for a CEF (25), L&NWR Railway Goods Porter, and a EAF (22), Cotton Mill Ring Spinner, who had been married for 17 months [c. Nov. 1909] with an un-named child [gender not indicated] - but he was not born in Stockport, nor was she. ?? Hope to hear from you. Anyone got access to Soldiers Died In The Great War to check he was born in Stockport? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 15 minutes ago, Tom Hulme said: I am Positive he was born in Stockport Not being confrontational - But why are you so sure? Have you a Birth Certificate? 2 minutes ago, Michelle Young said: Anyone got access to Soldiers Died In The Great War to check this? I have just checked - SDGW does say Stockport [or at least the transcription on Ancestry reads that] ??? :-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Has anyone got him on the NATIONAL ROLL OF THE GREAT WAR? [I couldn't find on Find My Past] Got to say even if found that is probably not all that definitive - as relatives paid to get their entries in there and errors could easily get included. ?? :-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 Birth SDGW says Stockport information supplied on enlistment by recruit Free BMD and census indicates born Wellington Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 2 minutes ago, RaySearching said: SDGW says Stockport information supplied on enlistment by recruit So if he/someone mistook the question/answer he could perhaps have ended up with his place of residence instead I suppose. ??? Waiting on OP. :-) M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matlock1418 Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, RaySearching said: Free BMD and census indicates born Wellington GRO have: Name: Mother's Maiden Surname: FOX, CHARLES THOMAS RIDGEWAY GRO Reference: 1886 J Quarter in WELLINGTON SALOP UNION Volume 06A Page 779 = Does the maiden name of mother, RIDGEWAY, help clarify if we are looking at the right chap? :-) M Edited 22 June , 2021 by Matlock1418 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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