Gavin73 Posted 20 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 June , 2021 He was married to Catherine (Kitty) Milne Walker in Kirriemuir on 31 December 1897. Thank you for your efforts, yes James very popular! His son was James too (Jim) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 20 June , 2021 Admin Share Posted 20 June , 2021 I no longer have credit for Scotland's People but the 1911 Census hashusband and wife living in Uphall, and both died there which rather mitigates against him becoming a Colonel in the NZASC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin73 Posted 20 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 June , 2021 Hi Ken, I've got a couple of census from there. I was just having difficulty finding information on his military career. Thank you for your efforts! G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 20 June , 2021 Admin Share Posted 20 June , 2021 2 hours ago, Gavin73 said: i Ken, I've got a couple of census from there. I was just having difficulty finding information on his military career. I'm suggesting he did not have a 'military career', and that the officer laying the wreath is not the same man as the mine worker from Uphall. As an engineman in a coal mine he is unlikely to have served in the Army pre-war. In the voluntary period, he may have enlisted, 26.9% of males aged 15 - 49 in Scotland did enlist and many mine workers with first aid qualifications were recruited into the RAMC. He is very unlikely to have been commissioned during this period (wrong school/background). Conscription came in in March 1916 for men aged 18 to 41, he would therefore be disqualified on the grounds of age, the figure for this period until 1918 for males aged 15 -49 conscripted in Scotland was just 14.6%. In total less than half of men aged 15- 49 in Scotland enlisted (41.4%) By 1917 above ground or surface workers in the coal mines were being called up but those called first were single, defined by age and joined the industry after 1914. Engineman was a safety dependent skill were usually exempt as a class of surface workers. He seems to have spent his working life in Uphall, Scotland, presumably in the shale mine industry, therefore it is very difficult to reconcile the Cadet Lieutenant Colonel mentioned in the Daily Record, and the Colonel in the NZASC post war with his age and occupation as recorded above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin73 Posted 20 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 20 June , 2021 Hi Ken, I was wondering that . . . And the man in the two pics does look different. The man in the Red Cross photo is definitely him as he matches other photos. The side profile is harder to match, which makes me wonder why we have this photo . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 21 June , 2021 Admin Share Posted 21 June , 2021 Local newspapers show the Uphall Red Cross unit, supervised by a Dr Thompson, was very active throughout the war and beyond. One reference I found which may be of interest was a concert for a James Cunningham, wounded soldier, blessed if I can find it now! In the absence of organised medical services the first aid teams at the mines were well qualified and proud of their service which was well recognised within the mining communities. 10 hours ago, Gavin73 said: which makes me wonder why we have this photo . . . Can't answer that, a distant relative perhaps? (My cousin won two tickets for England Scotland match, she gave them to her nephews. She shared a pic with me of them on the terraces at Wembley - just two random blokes I've never met but they are on my hard drive somewhere) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmeg Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 (edited) Well the BNA shows that there definitely WAS a Colonel J(sor C or sometimes C or D - OCR's not great for transcriptions!) Cunningham- who I would suggest is the colonel of the cadets in the clippings above? He would seem to meet the bill for that chap. He seems to have lived in melrose post war and died in 1943. I can't find any record matching a J Cunningham (and certainly no J McDermott Cunningham) in military records that I can find or James McD C as such in any census (but scottish records are not my thing and I don't have Scotland's people-I can see Gavin has been able to find him. I've checked NZ newspaper records with no luck except for WH Cunningham as above. I suppose now the thing is- WHO is the Colonel in the NZASC? ..... A passing thought- in my GF's photos there is a Photo (snapshot) of Queen Mary- I'm pretty darn sure she ain't no relative :-D . Could this be a photo of someone more famous laying a wreath and kept because it is after all a nce shot of a bigwig laying a wreath? Edited 22 June , 2021 by Madmeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin73 Posted 22 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2021 14 hours ago, Madmeg said: Well the BNA shows that there definitely WAS a Colonel J(sor C or sometimes C or D - OCR's not great for transcriptions!) Cunningham- who I would suggest is the colonel of the cadets in the clippings above? He would seem to meet the bill for that chap. He seems to have lived in melrose post war and died in 1943. I can't find any record matching a J Cunningham (and certainly no J McDermott Cunningham) in military records that I can find or James McD C as such in any census (but scottish records are not my thing and I don't have Scotland's people-I can see Gavin has been able to find him. I've checked NZ newspaper records with no luck except for WH Cunningham as above. I suppose now the thing is- WHO is the Colonel in the NZASC? ..... A passing thought- in my GF's photos there is a Photo (snapshot) of Queen Mary- I'm pretty darn sure she ain't no relative :-D . Could this be a photo of someone more famous laying a wreath and kept because it is after all a nce shot of a bigwig laying a wreath? Hi Meg, With the COVID I was going through the albums and pulling out pics, but it certainly is seeming it could be a random pic . . . I wonder who it is and why my Grandmother treasured it enough to put it in an album. I really do appreciate all the knowledge in this Forum, I have learn't a lot already! G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmeg Posted 22 June , 2021 Share Posted 22 June , 2021 33 minutes ago, Gavin73 said: Hi Meg, With the COVID I was going through the albums and pulling out pics, but it certainly is seeming it could be a random pic . . . I wonder who it is and why my Grandmother treasured it enough to put it in an album. I really do appreciate all the knowledge in this Forum, I have learn't a lot already! G. It would have been so nice if our ancestors could have thoughtfully LABELLED their photos :-)- hmm time to go through my own huge collection and label them for future generations..... yeah nah she'll be right :-D . My grandmother put a few names and dates on a few of her pictures - but mostly nicknames - so extremely difficult to work out who is who. My grandfather's photos are all just jumbled up with the rest- also mostly unlabelled- in fact I couldn't say for certain that Queen Mary is one of his- except I'm pretty sure it must be. My grandmother was great on pictures of people- this forum has been extremely useful in attempting to identify some of them- including Lt John Baker who I have a photograph of with my grandmother- just the one, unlabelled- but someone recognised the features from a newspaper article they had seen- the medal helped as well. As she was living in Bournemouth at the time she met large number of young men in the forces on leave and obviously she and her friends would socialise, take photos and then never speak to or meet each other again. Leaving us descendants with photos to puzzle over. A bit like the yoof of today and their selfies :-). I would still like to identify "Freckles", "George Robey" and "Brack" but have no chance unfortunately. Just a thought- is it stuck down in an album? There could be something written on the back...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin73 Posted 22 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2021 I had my mother dig it out again, however unfortunately it doesn't really clarify . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 June , 2021 Share Posted 23 June , 2021 “Darling Daddy 1914 War” That seems pretty unequivocal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 23 June , 2021 Admin Share Posted 23 June , 2021 7 hours ago, FROGSMILE said: “Darling Daddy 1914 War” That seems pretty unequivocal. But whose Daddy? I think I can make out Wellington if correct that puts it in New Zealand. The NZASC Colonel is laying a laurel wreath which is more a symbol of victory than remembrance. Memorial dedicated Anzac Day 1931 https://www.southsmuseumofpostcards.nz/postcards/wellington-the-war-memorial-cenotaph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 23 June , 2021 Share Posted 23 June , 2021 (edited) 42 minutes ago, kenf48 said: But whose Daddy? I think I can make out Wellington if correct that puts it in New Zealand. The NZASC Colonel is laying a laurel wreath which is more a symbol of victory than remembrance. Memorial dedicated Anzac Day 1931 https://www.southsmuseumofpostcards.nz/postcards/wellington-the-war-memorial-cenotaph Well if it belonged to and was treasured by the OPs “grandmother”, as we’ve been told, then it seems likely it’s her father, unless I’ve misunderstood. It seemed fairly clear. Edited 23 June , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmeg Posted 25 June , 2021 Share Posted 25 June , 2021 It looks pretty unequivocal - BUT I'm with "whose daddy?" here- because there is a lot of writing on the back of that. It could be that Daddy died and this wreath is being placed on the memorial he is included in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmeg Posted 25 June , 2021 Share Posted 25 June , 2021 I've pushed the contrast and colour a bit (limited edting tools after a hard drive replacement) You can definitely see quite a bit of writing there, a fairly clear "wellington" along with some numbers and that bottom bt which has been heavily erased... intriguing and tantalising Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmeg Posted 25 June , 2021 Share Posted 25 June , 2021 https://teara.govt.nz/en/photograph/33652/anzac-day-wreath-laying-1931 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin73 Posted 25 June , 2021 Author Share Posted 25 June , 2021 1 hour ago, Madmeg said: I've pushed the contrast and colour a bit (limited edting tools after a hard drive replacement) You can definitely see quite a bit of writing there, a fairly clear "wellington" along with some numbers and that bottom bt which has been heavily erased... intriguing and tantalising Thank you for that Meg. I plan to do something similar next month and take a high definition scan of it. Who knows . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmeg Posted 25 June , 2021 Share Posted 25 June , 2021 (edited) Is the writing indented? could you blow some fine dust over it to enhance the writing? Or is it too damaged? Couple of options I could see would be- postcard from a friend or family member and for some reason everything except darling daddy has later been rubbed off. Postcard acquired at some stage from who knows where, their message rubbed out because we like the photo and someone else at later stage has assumed that this is darling daddy and added it . I'm assuming the dark brown "burn " marks are actually glue. It looks like someone has spilled water on it. Someone appears to have added something in blue ink and then heavily erased it at the bottom. I can almost make out some letters- but not enough- argh! Abve Wellington looks like a number. Darkest bit seems to start with a W Above that- could that be "Royal..... R" ???? Heavily erased bit- ?R or K then R or P the ?S an. EDIT- last word on that line ?Road? so Something or other Road and the first bt could be a name- R Robert or Robert R/K/P something road or could be 5 xx Road or 52 xx road? But I could be clutching at straws :-D Can you get a higher resolution on your camera to post here? I would suggest taking a photo at highest resolution of half of it close up at max real zoom (no digital zoom!) , then take the other half the same way. You could also try shining a light from the side to see if that brings out the relief of the writing? Edited 25 June , 2021 by Madmeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmeg Posted 26 June , 2021 Share Posted 26 June , 2021 (edited) A search of NZ archives brings up only two colonels for NZASC in ww1 period. Colonel N Manders who seems to have died in 1919. Hubert Havard Wright DSO. Now this chap is certainly interesting even if he isn't the man in the photo. Born in Worthing Sussex in 1883 son of Arnold (Harrad (sic) and Frances Wright. The family is in Kensington 1891 and Portsmouth in 1901 (not in the army), you will find him with the British Army in Jamaica in 1911 where he is listed as Staff- but I don't know which regiment as several are listed! He was loaned to the NZ army in the early years of WW1 and sent out to Samoa as assistant QM with Samoan EF according to his NZ army records. He was released from there to join the NZEF but then released from the NZEF to join the ASC. (I think that is correct) listed as ASC 1916. Foreign service 1916. NoKMrs Arnold Wright, Pitt Street kensington Appointed inspector of ASC 1915, relinquished service as Director Supplies and Transport 1916 to go on active service. Rejoined British Army 1917 His file contains several pages of details relating to tendering requirements for supplies etc which may be of general interest as to how such things were done by the army. It also contains some fascinating details of the contracting procedure when taking on him and some other officers from the imperial Army. In 1929 he travelled through Boston with wife Therese (Willoughby -Osbourne mar Marylebone 1917- pretty much as soon as he got back from NZ! Paperspast notes him as having short leave -shown on his service papers- to get married) from Bermuda, 1930 he travelled through Canada and in 1936 he shows up as passing through America with his wife Therese. She is a beneficiary to his 1949 will - probate is grated in London, appears to have died in Marylebone. There do not appear to be any children born in England (An Ann L Wright mothers name Osbourne seems to be a bit late in 1949- there are some Wright Willoughby children in Birmingham) . 1936 he has an Auckland address and is on his way to Rarotonga and Tahiti. So from his military history and travel history he could well be the man in the photo at (probably) Wellington (in 1931?) - but if that is who it is how he has turned up in Gavin's mother's photo album with darling daddy against his name is a mystery. Edited 26 June , 2021 by Madmeg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 26 June , 2021 Share Posted 26 June , 2021 (edited) Hubert Havard Wright appears in several Ancestry trees, like this one: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/19609321/person/352117519888/gallery Edit: No image sadly. Died 25/1/1949, 20 Devonshire Place, Marylebone. Probate to widow, Theresa. Edited 26 June , 2021 by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gavin73 Posted 13 July , 2021 Author Share Posted 13 July , 2021 https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/free-lance/1916/09/29/25 This is the only picture I have been able to find of Hubert Havard Wright. I will attempt to examine the rear of the photograph next week, fingers crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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