Francis George Woodhouse

[EmmaDean]

Okay, I am resurrecting this in the hope that more geniuses can help me with clues as to who the hell my g-g-grandfather was! I pretty much fell out of love with the whole family tree thing because of this but I have recently picked it back up. I’ve tried to focus on other areas of the tree, but I just keep getting drawn back to this mystery!

I think the last post on here was someone asking for a copy of Francis and Ellen’s marriage certificate. I can’t see that I actually uploaded it, so I’ll do that - maybe it will help!?

Thanks to anyone, old or new, who might be able to help 🙏🏻

Francis and Ellen - marriage certificate.pdf

[charlie962]

Help .Why do I get this when I try to download??

Result is I cannot open it??

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

7 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

Help .Why do I get this when I try to download??

Result is I cannot open it??

Downloads and opens OK for me Charlie.

[charlie962]

1 minute ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Downloads and opens OK for me Charlie.

Clearly more geeky than me. I don't want to clutter this thread. I'll post in another area!

Edited 24 June , 2023 by charlie962

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

[EmmaDean]

2 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Well done - I was just about to try doing that myself! 

[EmmaDean]

No further thoughts on this anyone? 

[PRC]

16 minutes ago, EmmaDean said:

No further thoughts on this anyone?

Emma,

There has been a lot of replies on this one which is probably deterring some potential respondents. I know when I saw your recent request I had a quick look back and realised at least for me I'd probably have to spend thirty minutes plus working through the responses, taking notes and looking to spot where if anywhere there might be gaps that I might be able to help fill in.

So just a suggestion but what would be good is if you could summarise the posts made so far. No promises but it might draw a few more replies out of the woodwork

Cheers,
Peter

[Dai Bach y Sowldiwr]

46 minutes ago, PRC said:

what would be good is if you could summarise the posts made so far.

Agreed.

And establish what fact you wish to establish next. 

[EmmaDean]

Okay, here goes...

 

All seems well from 1901 onwards (in that I can at least find records relating to him), but I am really struggling to find anything before then.  Here is what I know:

• From what I can establish (this is from the 1939 England and Wales register), Francis was born on the 21st April.  I am not sure whether the year of birth is 1877 (as stated on the Register), or 1875 (as is stated on what I believe is a reference to his service file number with the Military of Defence);
• In the 1901 Census, I believe I have a record of Francis being based at Plymouth barracks.  I believe that record states that he is a Bombardier with the Royal Garrison Artillery;
• Francis married Ellen Maud Britton at Portsmouth Registry Office on the 28th September 1901;
• Sometime between then and 1902, Francis and Ellen moved to India.  This was presumably because of Francis' position in the army.  In 1902, their daughter Dorothy Maud Woodhouse was born, followed by Gerald Britton Woodhouse in 1904, Annie Lilian Woodhouse in 1906 and Frederick Thomas Woodhouse in 1907.  Sometime between then and 1909, the family returned to the UK and their youngest daughter, Phyllis Kathleen Woodhouse, was born in 1909.  I believe that she was born in Woolwich barracks;
• In the 1911 Census, Francis is stated as being based at Woolwich barracks.  He is stated as being a Sergeant in the 48th Battery, Royal Garrison Artillery;
• I have other records for Francis, including his Medal Index Card.  From that, I believe that he was commissioned in 1916 and he held the ranks of Battery Sergeant Major, Lieutenant and Captain.  The 'theatre of war' is stated as being Mesopotamia;
• Francis' son, Gerald, was killed in a shooting incident at Barry Buddon camp in Dundee, in 1929.  This was quite widely reported in the media, which is how I really began my research on Francis.  In the reports, he is stated as being a retired Captain of the Royal Garrison Artillery;
• I have located the death registration record for Francis and obtained a copy of the death certificate.  He died on the 15th September 1947 at 77 Heavitree Road in Exeter.  At the time, he lived at 138 Monks Road, Exeter;
• I have located a burial record for Francis.  He was buried on the 18th September 1947 in Higher Cemetery, Exeter.  This is almost certainly correct as this is the same cemetery in which Gerald is buried.  Having checked the burial index cards, I have noted that Ellen is buried at the same cemetery as well;
• The Census records state that Francis was born in Plymouth, Devon, (St Andrew’s, according to the 1901 census) however, I cannot find any connecting birth registration record;
• The marriage certificate states Francis' father as being 'Thomas Woodhouse', however, I cannot find any record connecting a Thomas Woodhouse with a Francis Woodhouse. I believe that this ‘Thomas’ could also have been in the military as the marriage certificate states his occupation as being ‘Pensioner R.h’ which I understood to be a reference to Royal Hospital, Chelsea.  However, I now understand that this is more likely to be ‘RN pensioner’ so it would appear that he was in the Navy, rather than the Army.
• There is another Francis George Woodhouse who was born in September 1875 in London.  His father is James Woodhouse.  I believe, therefore, that these are not the same people.

 

Another thing I started looking into is something that I found as a result of applying to the National Archives of Australia.  As part of my research, it appeared that one of Francis’s daughters, Phyllis, travelled to Australia in 1950.  I was able to find a record of her being onboard the Empire Brent and have obtained a copy of the ‘Application for an assisted passage to Australia’ form.  It is definitely the right Phyllis.  An interesting bit of information is stated on the form, in that she names her aunt who lives in Australia which is where I think she must have stayed.  The aunt is named ‘Mrs E M Lee’ and an address is given.  Having looked at the names of Ellen’s siblings, there are no initials (other than Ellen’s own, as she was Ellen Maud) that match.  Could it be that this is a relative on Francis’s side of the family? I recall having looked into this a bit but, naturally, was not able to find anything!

[PRC]

48 minutes ago, EmmaDean said:

The marriage certificate states Francis' father as being 'Thomas Woodhouse', however, I cannot find any record connecting a Thomas Woodhouse with a Francis Woodhouse. I believe that this ‘Thomas’ could also have been in the military as the marriage certificate states his occupation as being ‘Pensioner R.h’ which I understood to be a reference to Royal Hospital, Chelsea.  However, I now understand that this is more likely to be ‘RN pensioner’ so it would appear that he was in the Navy, rather than the Army.

Looking at Royal Navy ratings records in the National Archive there are 17 matches for a “Thomas Woodhouse”, although some have Thomas as a midddle name. Some of the records can be dismissed immediately – birth date means it’s impossibly young for them to have been the father of Francis, (or even requiring a time machine, while for now I’ve parked looking at those born before 1830. https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/royal-navy-ratings-service-records-1853-1928/

But that leaves no-one.

And a search of Warrant Officers and Officers drew a complete blank.

There are some other rank specific record sources – the Imperial War Museum states they are for carpenters, boatswains, engineers, surgeons and assistant surgeons – see under “Why can’t I find what I’m looking for” here https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/royal-navy-officers-service-records-1756-1931/

Got to admit I’m well out of my depth on naval enquiries – a forum pal like @horatio2 may be more clued up as to where to look for a Thomas Woodhouse who appears to have been a Naval Pensioner in 1901 and who has a son who was born c1873* - 1877.

@EmmaDean  – I note he states he was 27 when he married on the 28th September 1901. If that statement was true then he was born between the 29th September 1873 and the 28th September 1874.

Cheers,
Peter

[EmmaDean]

Thanks, Peter.  I'm just totally baffled by the whole thing and each time I return to it, I don't make any headway.

Honestly, God knows what Francis' actual date of birth was.  On his army attestation (the first one), his age would have meant that he was born circa 1875, however, when he joined the TA later on in life, he gave his date of birth as the 30th April 1887! The 1901 census would have meant that he was born circa 1876, the 1911 census would have meant that he was born circa 1873 and on the 1939 register he has stated his date of birth as being the 21st April 1877.  His death certificate states that he was 72, meaning that he would have been born in 1875 

[Madmeg]

Hey Emma, 

I may have something.

Francis George HARRISON b1872 plymouth. father Francis b 1841 Liverpool, seaman pensioner , navy in Plymouth st Andrew's in 1881. Mother Emma.

Siblings Emma Rosa b 1875, Mary Ellen 1878. Elizabeth Ann b1880. There was a Margaret Maud b 1882, according to a tree on familysearch she emigrated to Australia.

Francis sen died in 1883.

Emma Jun may be in the Royal British orphanage in 1891. The others are with mum Emma in 1891.

I can't find Francis George in 1891, but was he already in the ,ilitary by then?

Emma sen surname Hesketh or Hiscott.

Not sure about a death for Emma senior, but I didnt see a marriage I could pin on her.

Leaves uncertainty about the provenance of th name Woodhouse and Thomas , but in other respects this man may be worth chasing, I'm thinking of his daughter and her going to Australia. 

 

 

EDIT,

May have to scratch this family, Frederick George is with his mother and sisters in 1911, he is a tailor with the Royal Navy. Note that at least one of sisters is widowed but using the name Harrison.

 

EDIT 2 

sorry I liked the look of him but I have found his navy record shows he served all the way to 1919. I had a thought that perhaps the name change to Woodhouse was because he had run from the navy but that won't fly.

Edited 11 October , 2023 by Madmeg
New information