Dazza Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 Hi, I am trying to identify two items worn on my Great Grandfather’s WW1 uniform. In one of the photos he is wearing what appears to be a silver chain and small spurs which is hanging from his left breast pocket and attached to his button hole. In the second photo (Middle soldier) he has a round patch sewn on to the top left sleeve. I know his service no 53525 and that he was a driver and served through all the major offensive. I do not know unit etc. Any help would be greatly appreciated Regards Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 (edited) The chain looks like an Albert chain, most likely holding a pocket watch along with the charms. The patch is visible in both photographs; I believe it is a Thistle in a wreath worn by the 9th Scottish Division. He first went to France on 1/6/1915. Edited 5 May , 2021 by GWF1967 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 Hi Dazza, welcome to the forum. Great photographs! As you know, Driver Albert Edward Cook, 53525, served in the Royal Field Artillery. Albert was awarded the 1914-1915 Star which he qualified for on the 1st June 1915. Albert also earned the Victory Medal (VM) and British War Medal (BWM). Ancestry hold the Medal Index Card (MIC), which is also available for free download at the National Archives https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D1916007 and two corresponding Medal Rolls, one for the Star and one for the VM and BWM. Unfortunately, in the absence of Albert's attestion / service record or Battery listed on the Rolls it maybe difficult to discern his unit. Hopefully one of our Gunner experts can provide further information from his service number. I have also searched Fold3 and can find no pension records. I have, however, found an entry in the 'The National Roll of the Great War, 1914-1918' which appears to match his rank, regiment, dates and medals. Unfortunately it doesn't record his service number though gives details of where he served and address. If he was from London this could be your man. My only concern is that he is serving in cologne and has been issued his meals so could be later than the discharge date on the National Roll. There are a lot of Albert Cook's that served in the RFA! I have sent you over a pm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 On 05/05/2021 at 22:05, GWF1967 said: The patch is visible in both photographs; I believe it is a Clover leaf, worn by the 16th (Irish) Division. Surely a thistle in wreath of the 9th Scottish Division ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 19 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Surely a thistle in wreath of the 9th Scottish Division ? I think you have the winning hand sir. I’ve amended my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 10 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Surely a thistle in wreath of the 9th Scottish Division ? Yep, that’s what I’m seeing too. His DoE is a little late for the 9th Divisional Artillery, I’ll have a look through the diaries to see if there were any late arrivals. Both 50th and 51st Bdes plus the DAC were part of the BAOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianjonesncl Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 The 9th Scottish Division Artillery arrived in the Cologne Bridgehead December 1918 and remained until September / October 1919 50th Brigade RFA - [remained to Sep 1919] 51st Brigade RFA - [remained to Oct 1919] Divisional Ammunition Column - [remained to Sep 1919] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted 5 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2021 Hi all and firstly thank you for your response. Albert lived in South East London and he was not Scottish, although his wife was Irish. Don’t know if this makes any difference? I also have undated post cards which he sent from the following locations:- Elsdorf, Wiesbaden, Cologne, Wiesdorf and he also stated he was with the horses in Porz. Another photo for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted 5 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2021 I was also told he boxed for the regiment or battalion, was tied to the wheel of a gun for some form of punishment and at one point looked after the horse for the officer in charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted 5 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2021 On 06/05/2021 at 01:59, ianjonesncl said: The 9th Scottish Division Artillery arrived in the Cologne Bridgehead December 1918 and remained until September / October 1919 50th Brigade RFA - [remained to Sep 1919] 51st Brigade RFA - [remained to Oct 1919] Divisional Ammunition Column - [remained to Sep 1919] On 06/05/2021 at 01:59, ianjonesncl said: The 9th Scottish Division Artillery arrived in the Cologne Bridgehead December 1918 and remained until September / October 1919 50th Brigade RFA - [remained to Sep 1919] 51st Brigade RFA - [remained to Oct 1919] Divisional Ammunition Column - [remained to Sep 1919] Hi all and firstly thank you for your response. Albert lived in South East London and he was not Scottish, although his wife was Irish. Don’t know if this makes any difference? I also have undated post cards which he sent from the following locations:- Elsdorf, Wiesbaden, Cologne, Wiesdorf and he also stated he was with the horses in Porz. Another photo for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner 87 Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 11 minutes ago, Dazza said: Hi all and firstly thank you for your response. Albert lived in South East London and he was not Scottish, although his wife was Irish. Don’t know if this makes any difference? I also have undated post cards which he sent from the following locations:- Elsdorf, Wiesbaden, Cologne, Wiesdorf and he also stated he was with the horses in Porz. Another photo for you Dazza, was he from Camberwell SE? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted 5 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2021 1 minute ago, Gunner 87 said: Dazza, was he from Camberwell SE? Yes. He lived around Bermondsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 (edited) There was a TF RGA unit based at Camberwell I seem to recall. Edited 5 May , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted 5 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2021 On 06/05/2021 at 05:18, Dazza said: Yes. He lived around Bermondsey I’m lucky enough to have his spurs as well albeit minus the leather straps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 On 06/05/2021 at 02:13, Dazza said: I was also told he boxed for the regiment or battalion, was tied to the wheel of a gun for some form of punishment and at one point looked after the horse for the officer in charge Being tied to the wheel of a gun was a modification of Field Punishment Number 1. The image below shows how it was done. As well as gun wheels other carts and wagon wheels were used according to the type of unit. He seems to have been appointed as an officers servant. An officer with a charger was allocated two servants whereas a dismounted officer had just one servant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted 5 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2021 2 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: There was a TF RGA unit based at Camberwell I seem to recall. Hi, please excuse my ignorance but what does that stand for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 Just now, Dazza said: Hi, please excuse my ignorance but what does that stand for? Territorial Force (a part-time auxiliary unit) of Royal Garrison Artillery (siege guns and coastal artillery as well as other heavy ordnance). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted 5 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2021 16 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Territorial Force (a part-time auxiliary unit) of Royal Garrison Artillery (siege guns and coastal artillery as well as other heavy ordnance). Thanks for the reply. I think he was posted to look after the officers horse later on his service. I know he had a damage lung from gas and maybe that’s why he was appointed that role Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted 5 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2021 22 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: Being tied to the wheel of a gun was a modification of Field Punishment Number 1. The image below shows how it was done. As well as gun wheels other carts and wagon wheels were used according to the type of unit. He seems to have been appointed as an officers servant. An officer with a charger was allocated two servants whereas a dismounted officer had just one servant. That’s brilliant, I was told he had a quick temper which often got him in trouble! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Dazza said: That’s brilliant, I was told he had a quick temper which often got him in trouble! Yes, well it was certainly a step up from ‘sitting on the naughty step’ and caused a lot of controversy as a means of punishment. Edited 5 May , 2021 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 2 hours ago, Dazza said: I also have undated post cards which he sent from the following locations:- Elsdorf, Wiesbaden, Cologne, Wiesdorf and he also stated he was with the horses in Porz. You could check the war diaries for the 3 units mentioned above, it may point to one in particular and give you some knowledge of which unit he finished the war with. My great uncle Levi also served with the 50th and 53rd Bdes (9th Scottish Division) and he was a Yorkshireman - location isn't always a given for units in which men served. Levi had been a pre-war Gunner with the local TF RFA and had re-enlisted during August 1914 and found himself in the first of Kitchener's new armies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted 5 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2021 20 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: You could check the war diaries for the 3 units mentioned above, it may point to one in particular and give you some knowledge of which unit he finished the war with. My great uncle Levi also served with the 50th and 53rd Bdes (9th Scottish Division) and he was a Yorkshireman - location isn't always a given for units in which men served. Levi had been a pre-war Gunner with the local TF RFA and had re-enlisted during August 1914 and found himself in the first of Kitchener's new armies. Hi Jay, how do i go about checking the war diaries? Darren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 Do you have subs to ancestry.co.uk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay dubaya Posted 5 May , 2021 Share Posted 5 May , 2021 21 minutes ago, jay dubaya said: Do you have subs to ancestry.co.uk? scrap that... register for a free account at the National Archives here. You can then download for free 50th Bde RFA and 9th DAC, start with these two... I'm struggling to find a diary for the 53rd Bde beyond September 1916 when the brigade was broken up and dispersed between the other RFA brigades of the 9th Division... but it gets complicated... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazza Posted 6 May , 2021 Author Share Posted 6 May , 2021 8 hours ago, jay dubaya said: Do you have subs to ancestry.co.uk? Hi, I have just joined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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